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    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Ice Dance in the 1990's and other Vintage programs

    I can't find the original "Vintage" thread of posts of "old" performances.

    Here's a gem. Duchesnays' sexy blues number, as sexy as Usova and Zhulin's Blues for Klook.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yix2zBk_Q

    I always wondered why they got so much flack every time I see them mentioned; they keep getting slammed for supposed technical deficiencies. They were incredibly popular in their heyday, and I still love them.

    Any classic performances to share?

    Mods, if you find the old thread, merge it please.

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    Custom Title Zamboni's Avatar
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    Ice Dance in the 1990's and other Vintage programs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Doris, I checked my own posts which don't go back long enough for me to find that thread. I remember it was called Vintage something either in the title or in the original post. Platov did a great job coaching the Kerrs. You can see he's a level-headed man, and I have no idea how much tolerance he had to muster to deal with the "Pasha" madness. I would have kicked her ***. Remember the channeling of Marilyn Monroe? On second thought, if I had a shot at winning OGM, I might put up with her too.



    Masterpiece. It was considered "easier" even then, let alone compared to the addiction to complexity of today's requirements. Every movement was meaningful and the emotional connection to themselves and the audience was incredible.



    Potent is a great word to describe the Duchesnays. While they didn't have the technical refinement of K&P, I just don't get a lot of the bashing I read about the Duschenays years ago. They weren't that bad. Missing is an amazing piece of art. I can go on and on about how brilliant the 90s ice dancing programs were. Sometimes I wonder if the Duchesnays were independently brilliant or not - was it just because of Dean's influence that they got to where they were? In any case, they also had some dramatic programs during the pro-circuit. I doubt they were still working with Dean in 1994 after the divorce, so it could be their own work. No matter what, it is their interpretation of Missing that was exceptional. They had a certain grittiness to them. Torvill and Dean also performed Missing, but I prefer the Ds' version much more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zXCnxE7W8

    The 7th Symphony was a beauty. A maturation of their style. Unfortunately, Paul had a career-ending groin injury, and we didn't get to see evolve and grow.




    I think the Libertango was their best program. They weren't the most refined skaters, but their speed got everyone's adrenaline shot up.

    I loved the Ds' Tango in 1988. I think they were the ones to bring the "real" tango's grittiness to the ice. Prior to that, it seemed that all the "tango" programs were cute "Jalousie" unintentional parodies of the tango.



    Really? Krylova certainly didn't feel like Grischuk was losing her dominance. They won basically every competition, big or small, from '94 to '98. No skaters could win two OGM, even the most ingenious ice dancers couldn't do it. It remains to be seen whether Virtue and Moir can pull it off, but it is a rarity since there are so many spectacular, talented rivals in any period of ice dancing history. G&P lucked out since their rivals were not only much weaker but also artistically less interesting. IMO K&O definitely deserved to beat them a few times, but back then, this sort of thing rarely happened except in the early 90s with K&P, U&Z, and Ds. Seniority won then. K&O weren't technically far off from G&P either. Sad that K&O's career wasn't as long. They would have killed in 2002 with the lame programs (except Flamenco) A&P et al did.



    Many ice dancers moved that move or a variation of it. Usova and Zhulin did it. I'm not sure it's supposed to be dying.

    I loved the dying on ice move that's done well i.e. Bolero. Bobrova and Soloviev's Four Seasons is an unintentional parody of it.
    Yes, but remember it was all set up for them to win. That is how ice dancing was back then. Bloc voting, etc. No one else would have a chance, not even the next Russian team. Perhaps G/P deserved to win the gold medal at the 1998 Olympics -- but 22 straight wins?

    Ice dancing competition results back then were pre-determined. The "chosen ones" would win each dance of the competition.

    Everyone knew that. It took "Skategate" at the 2002 Olympics to finally change all that. Otherwise we would never have seen the rise of Belbin/Agosto, Virtue/Moir, and Davis/White -- no matter how brilliant they were.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-19-2013 at 02:38 AM.

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    Ice Dance in the 1990's and other Vintage programs

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Doris, I checked my own posts which don't go back long enough for me to find that thread. I remember it was called Vintage something either in the title or in the original post. Platov did a great job coaching the Kerrs. You can see he's a level-headed man, and I have no idea how much tolerance he had to muster to deal with the "Pasha" madness. I would have kicked her ***. Remember the channeling of Marilyn Monroe? On second thought, if I had a shot at winning OGM, I might put up with her too.



    Masterpiece. It was considered "easier" even then, let alone compared to the addiction to complexity of today's requirements. Every movement was meaningful and the emotional connection to themselves and the audience was incredible.



    Potent is a great word to describe the Duchesnays. While they didn't have the technical refinement of K&P, I just don't get a lot of the bashing I read about the Duschenays years ago. They weren't that bad. Missing is an amazing piece of art. I can go on and on about how brilliant the 90s ice dancing programs were. Sometimes I wonder if the Duchesnays were independently brilliant or not - was it just because of Dean's influence that they got to where they were? In any case, they also had some dramatic programs during the pro-circuit. I doubt they were still working with Dean in 1994 after the divorce, so it could be their own work. No matter what, it is their interpretation of Missing that was exceptional. They had a certain grittiness to them. Torvill and Dean also performed Missing, but I prefer the Ds' version much more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zXCnxE7W8

    The 7th Symphony was a beauty. A maturation of their style. Unfortunately, Paul had a career-ending groin injury, and we didn't get to see evolve and grow.




    I think the Libertango was their best program. They weren't the most refined skaters, but their speed got everyone's adrenaline shot up.

    I loved the Ds' Tango in 1988. I think they were the ones to bring the "real" tango's grittiness to the ice. Prior to that, it seemed that all the "tango" programs were cute "Jalousie" unintentional parodies of the tango.



    Really? Krylova certainly didn't feel like Grischuk was losing her dominance. They won basically every competition, big or small, from '94 to '98. No skaters could win two OGM, even the most ingenious ice dancers couldn't do it. It remains to be seen whether Virtue and Moir can pull it off, but it is a rarity since there are so many spectacular, talented rivals in any period of ice dancing history. G&P lucked out since their rivals were not only much weaker but also artistically less interesting. IMO K&O definitely deserved to beat them a few times, but back then, this sort of thing rarely happened except in the early 90s with K&P, U&Z, and Ds. Seniority won then. K&O weren't technically far off from G&P either. Sad that K&O's career wasn't as long. They would have killed in 2002 with the lame programs (except Flamenco) A&P et al did.



    Many ice dancers moved that move or a variation of it. Usova and Zhulin did it. I'm not sure it's supposed to be dying.

    I loved the dying on ice move that's done well i.e. Bolero. Bobrova and Soloviev's Four Seasons is an unintentional parody of it.
    Yes, but remember it was all set up for them to win. That is how ice dancing was back then. Bloc voting, etc. No one else would have a chance, not even the next Russian team. Perhaps G/P deserved to win the gold medal at the 1998 Olympics -- but 22 straight wins?

    Ice dancing competition results back then were pre-determined. The "chosen ones" would win each dance of the competition.

    Everyone knew that. It took "Skategate" at the 2002 Olympics to finally change all that. Otherwise we would never have seen the rise of Belbin/Agosto, Virtue/Moir, and Davis/White -- no matter how brilliant they were.

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    Ice Dance in the 1990's and other Vintage programs

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Doris, I checked my own posts which don't go back long enough for me to find that thread. I remember it was called Vintage something either in the title or in the original post. Platov did a great job coaching the Kerrs. You can see he's a level-headed man, and I have no idea how much tolerance he had to muster to deal with the "Pasha" madness. I would have kicked her ***. Remember the channeling of Marilyn Monroe? On second thought, if I had a shot at winning OGM, I might put up with her too.



    Masterpiece. It was considered "easier" even then, let alone compared to the addiction to complexity of today's requirements. Every movement was meaningful and the emotional connection to themselves and the audience was incredible.



    Potent is a great word to describe the Duchesnays. While they didn't have the technical refinement of K&P, I just don't get a lot of the bashing I read about the Duschenays years ago. They weren't that bad. Missing is an amazing piece of art. I can go on and on about how brilliant the 90s ice dancing programs were. Sometimes I wonder if the Duchesnays were independently brilliant or not - was it just because of Dean's influence that they got to where they were? In any case, they also had some dramatic programs during the pro-circuit. I doubt they were still working with Dean in 1994 after the divorce, so it could be their own work. No matter what, it is their interpretation of Missing that was exceptional. They had a certain grittiness to them. Torvill and Dean also performed Missing, but I prefer the Ds' version much more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zXCnxE7W8

    The 7th Symphony was a beauty. A maturation of their style. Unfortunately, Paul had a career-ending groin injury, and we didn't get to see evolve and grow.




    I think the Libertango was their best program. They weren't the most refined skaters, but their speed got everyone's adrenaline shot up.

    I loved the Ds' Tango in 1988. I think they were the ones to bring the "real" tango's grittiness to the ice. Prior to that, it seemed that all the "tango" programs were cute "Jalousie" unintentional parodies of the tango.



    Really? Krylova certainly didn't feel like Grischuk was losing her dominance. They won basically every competition, big or small, from '94 to '98. No skaters could win two OGM, even the most ingenious ice dancers couldn't do it. It remains to be seen whether Virtue and Moir can pull it off, but it is a rarity since there are so many spectacular, talented rivals in any period of ice dancing history. G&P lucked out since their rivals were not only much weaker but also artistically less interesting. IMO K&O definitely deserved to beat them a few times, but back then, this sort of thing rarely happened except in the early 90s with K&P, U&Z, and Ds. Seniority won then. K&O weren't technically far off from G&P either. Sad that K&O's career wasn't as long. They would have killed in 2002 with the lame programs (except Flamenco) A&P et al did.



    Many ice dancers moved that move or a variation of it. Usova and Zhulin did it. I'm not sure it's supposed to be dying.

    I loved the dying on ice move that's done well i.e. Bolero. Bobrova and Soloviev's Four Seasons is an unintentional parody of it.
    Yes, but remember it was all set up for them to win. That is how ice dancing was back then. Bloc voting, etc. No one else would have a chance, not even the next Russian team. Perhaps G/P deserved to win the gold medal at the 1998 Olympics -- but 22 straight wins?

    Ice dancing competition results back then were pre-determined. The "chosen ones" would win each dance of the competition.

    Everyone knew that. It took "Skategate" at the 2002 Olympics to finally change all that. Otherwise we would never have seen the rise of Belbin/Agosto, Virtue/Moir, and Davis/White -- no matter how brilliant they were.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    BlackPack, I am not sure which thread you want to merge? There is one about skaters when they were little?

    But if you're interested in vintage ice dance, there is a wonderful interview with Evgeny Platov here:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...ome-a-champion

    Platov's impressions of the Duchesnay's is interesting. Did you know they were pair skaters before they took up ice dancing?

    The Duchesnays were wonderful. I remember the first time I saw them skate on TV.

    The Original Set Pattern was Tango, and the Duchesnays did a very convincing, accurate Argentine tango, including the seediness of the look.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMFxoLjFJr0

    People are more apt to talk about their Savage Rites FD that year, but I knew they were special from their OSP.

    Their Missing I (1991 FD) was classic, and a fond, fond memory

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXkeiamsCew

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    One of my favorites has to be Rahkamo/Kokko's "Valse Triste" by Sibelius, for 93 Worlds, where they finished a disappointing 4th to Krylova/Fedorov. Loved that whole dance.

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    I just adored that "Missing." I watch it frequently. Everything about it worked: the potent music, the movements, the emotions, even the clothes.

    Rahkamo/Kokko were another of my favorite couples. Their "La Strada" was splendid. (By the way, I think I detect Kurt Browning's voice doing some of the commentary during this Worlds version of the program.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRiX1wPC7ok

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    BlackPack, I am not sure which thread you want to merge? There is one about skaters when they were little?

    But if you're interested in vintage ice dance, there is a wonderful interview with Evgeny Platov here:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...ome-a-champion

    Platov's impressions of the Duchesnay's is interesting. Did you know they were pair skaters before they took up ice dancing?

    The Duchesnays were wonderful. I remember the first time I saw them skate on TV.

    The Original Set Pattern was Tango, and the Duchesnays did a very convincing, accurate Argentine tango, including the seediness of the look.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMFxoLjFJr0

    People are more apt to talk about their Savage Rites FD that year, but I knew they were special from their OSP.

    Their Missing I (1991 FD) was classic, and a fond, fond memory

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXkeiamsCew
    The mid 80s and 90s were great for ice dance from a choreo standpoint. I saw the Duchesnays OSP Tango live in Calgary in 1988. It was electric and is still my favorite program of theirs. Most of the competitor ice dance coaches were dismissive of their technical skills, but audiences loved them. Of course it was Chris Dean’s choreo that the Duchesnays were so brilliant at delivering.
    I also covered Platov’s career throughout his senior career and all the drama that Grishuk always created. It’s a wonder that Platov put up with it, but Grishuk was a brilliant skater, not everyone’s cup of tea, they were great technicians and so fast,– they put everyone else in the shade with their speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    The mid 80s and 90s were great for ice dance from a choreo standpoint. I saw the Duchesnays OSP Tango live in Calgary in 1988. It was electric and is still my favorite program of theirs. Most of the competitor ice dance coaches were dismissive of their technical skills, but audiences loved them. Of course it was Chris Dean’s choreo that the Duchesnays were so brilliant at delivering.
    I also covered Platov’s career throughout his senior career and all the drama that Grishuk always created. It’s a wonder that Platov put up with it, but Grishuk was a brilliant skater, not everyone’s cup of tea, they were great technicians and so fast,– they put everyone else in the shade with their speed.
    During the early part of their career, Grishuk/Platov were dominant. From 1996 onward, when Oksana Grishuk went through a series of bizarre "transformation", from her starting to practice jumping on ice which Platov was horrified and from her change into "Pasha" and desire to win several Oscar, it just became weirder by the day. Then, Platov himself started to tumble on ice at an amazing frequency which led to "Pasha" dismissing him as too old and unfit. Can't possibly find anther team with more drama and juicy stories for reporters. By the time of 1997-98 Olympic season, they lost their dominance.

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    When was the golden age of the skaters "dying" on the ice and the man pulling the woman across the ice by her skate? I remember when these moves were banned, but I don't remember many of the programs where they did that. Does anyone have a link or know where I could see some of those programs?

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Then, Platov himself started to tumble on ice at an amazing frequency which led to "Pasha" dismissing him as too old and unfit. Can't possibly find anther team with more drama and juicy stories for reporters. By the time of 1997-98 Olympic season, they lost their dominance.
    wallylutz, do read Platov's interview linked above, and then check out Platov's falls.

    As he describes, Oksana/Pasha, when much moved by the music, would insert extra steps into a routine when she felt "expressive"-but she didn't always watch where Platov's skates were, and more than once you can see that she kicked his skate, causing the fall.

    I'm pleased to see that his favorite program of his & Grishuk's was the same as mine - 1987 Arabian Passion.

    Here it is at Euros,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5zK32mEFfk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    When was the golden age of the skaters "dying" on the ice and the man pulling the woman across the ice by her skate? I remember when these moves were banned, but I don't remember many of the programs where they did that. Does anyone have a link or know where I could see some of those programs?
    quintessential dying on the ice

    probably dying, but not on the ice

    on the ice, probably not dying

    maybe


    pulling her (or his) leg
    (no, not holding by the blade -- don't know that I've ever seen that -- and mostly not by the boot either)

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