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Thread: Michelle Kwan's 2001-2002 Season- Can you fill me in?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworthgirl View Post
    I actually really loved Irina as a competitor and person and there were many aspects of her skating that were great- her attack, energy, ebullience, spins, height on jumps. But her 2002 Olympic long was not a good performance for her. She lacked dynamism, triple triples, and sparkle. She knew it herself. Look at her face after she finishes!
    But Kwan was horrible technically! Slutskaya deserved Gold because of the SP and LP combines and SH overscored in SP. Kwan was lucky to medal.

  2. #47
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    The 2002 ladies event is one of those which will be debated endlessly forever (with the only things most seem to agree on is Hughes winning the LP and that Slutskaya probably should have won the SP, but even those have a minority who dispute). Personally I think Cohen and Suguri were both underscored compared to both Kwan and Slutskaya in the LP that night, but that is just me. I do know Cohen had some issues in her skating at the time, but her fall was on the end of a very good attempt of one of the hardest triple-triples in skating. Her spins were also so much better than Kwans or that particular night Slutskayas. Kwan by contrast two footed the simplest triple-double, then fell on a triple flip, and it was one of her worst choreographed programs ever, even though she skated it well overall. Slutskaya was weak in so many ways that night I felt, as I already broke down. Suguri was wonderful except for a doubled triple loop, and it was by far her best program ever. I could honestly see the LP standings having gone:

    2. Cohen
    3. Kwan or Suguri
    5. Slutskaya

    Although realistically given the rep value of these skaters the judges were never going to score it that way. Then again I would have had Hughes no higher than 6th in the short program.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    But Kwan was horrible technically! Slutskaya deserved Gold because of the SP and LP combines and SH overscored in SP. Kwan was lucky to medal.
    Horrible? I don't think so. She made mistakes but Irina had a mistake in her long program, too, and also skated in a rushed and overwrought manner. Her movements at the end--the face palming or whatever it was--were almost laughable. Irina was greatly over-scored on the second mark on that skate. She was lucky to be placed ahead of Michelle, even with Michelle's mistakes. Michelle certainly deserved to medal. Sasha had her usual splat and didn't have Michelle's overall skating skills or presence on the ice. No one else (other than the three who medaled) was a serious medal contender. Michelle won the short program on the second mark, by the way.

  4. #49
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    My last post on this topic:


    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Under 6.0 thinking yes Hughes's jumps were all clean, including the 2 triple-triples.

    No, the rules under 6.0 were quite clear that underrotation is a mistake. In the SP, it was a deduction smilar to a step out. The fact that the judges often didn't notice, chose not to notice or simly didn't care about underrotation is a different thing of course.

  5. #50
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    At the time, many people raved about Irina's "big" jumps. There was spring to her jumping, and her jumps covered more ice than, say, Michelle or others.

    Many people argued that Irina should have won the OGM in 2002, not because of her LP which was precariously performed but still technically clean. People argued that either Irina and/or Sasha should have been 1-2 in the SP, and Michelle should only have been 2nd or 3rd. Irina had a one-foot footwork sequence with huge jumps, and a 3lutz-2loop. Michelle under-rotated a jump. If Irina and/or Sasha were above Michelle, Hughes wouldn't have been able to come up from 4th after the SP to 1st under the old system. Irina would still have won the gold even if she was 2nd in the LP. Back then, Sasha was a 17 year-old newcomer, and not having paid her dues, she didn't have the cachet yet. But the judges loved her. She had best layback, overall spins, spirals, etc. out of the bunch, and her only weakness was flutzing which wasn't that big of a deal since many of her rivals had the same problem as well. I actually thought Schubert was Irina's best program, possibly ever. It was actually very polished and disguised her supposed lack of artistry.

    Till this day, nobody knows why Michelle left Frank. It was heartbreaking for him. They still love each other very much. It is obvious she was his favorite pupil.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Back then, Sasha was a 17 year-old newcomer, and not having paid her dues, she didn't have the cachet yet. But the judges loved her. She had best layback, overall spins, spirals, etc. out of the bunch, and her only weakness was flutzing which wasn't that big of a deal since many of her rivals had the same problem as well.
    It wasn't about paying her dues. Sasha wasn't a very good skater yet in 2002 as far as ice coverage, speed, edges, as well as the flutz you mentioned. During the broadcast even Scott seemed surprised by her scores, as he was expecting a deduction for her footwork that didn't finish the full circle.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    It wasn't about paying her dues. Sasha wasn't a very good skater yet in 2002 as far as ice coverage, speed, edges, as well as the flutz you mentioned. During the broadcast even Scott seemed surprised by her scores, as he was expecting a deduction for her footwork that didn't finish the full circle.
    Scott has been off the mark many times. Remember when he thought Yagudin wasn't going to win OGM and that he "conceded" to Timothy Goebbels?

    Sasha's scores could have been higher considering the lesser performances of her rivals. There could have been a deduction somewhere, but you wouldn't know it in the 6.0 system. Her only actual flaws would be the shallower footwork sequence and the flutzing. Even the finest skaters at that time flutzed frequently or at best took off from a flat blade.

    In 2002 Olympics, Irina should have been 1st after the SP based on her superior technical execution of the elements.

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