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Thread: About jump combos

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Murakami at season 2012/2013 had 3F+2A+Seq (in planned content), in fact 3F+1A+Seq.
    At least once her axel in this sequence was so bad that was not listed in protocol. As a result - her last jumping element was not scored.
    She missed that axel a LOT. I wish she had the sense to have put the axel as a solo jump, because she always singled it and ran the risk of her final jumping pass not counting if the flip was missed. And you can tell that the axel is not her most confident jump and she needs a bit of setup to execute it. That was not the smartest strategy.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    1999, Plushenko does the first 4/3/2 combo. 2002, Plushenko does 4T+3T+3Lo (step out of the loop) at the Olympics. (I think Kevin van der Perren has the first clean 4+3+3 combo.)
    Plushenko did a clean 4T-3T-3Lo at CoR 2003. I think the 3Lo was borderline but he didn't step out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlu_OJeyWII

    Add this one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVS554SM-dA=24s

    And you've got 3 people waiting for Mathman to change that first thought he had in the second post of the thread


    W-O-O-W

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    This is one of the glaring flaws of the judging system. It doesn't reward difficulty of combos. A skater doing a 3Z-3T combo and 2A will get the same amount of points as a skater doing a lone 3Z and 2A-3T combo. That's why the 2A-3T combo has become so popular with the ladies
    That is a very glaring flaw. Surprising that it hasn't been rectified.

  4. #49
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelENTL View Post
    That is a very glaring flaw. Surprising that it hasn't been rectified.
    And add the fact that the tech panel keeps on picking up the < on loop based combinations, so much so that now virtually nobody tacks the triple loop after another triple. Currently, only Asada still practices it and after her imminent retirement, we are left with no loops and 3A. Interesting that the newer crop of skaters tend to have poor edge jumps and I am just surprised why there are no female skaters attempting the 3A since Asada. Tacking a 3R seems to be out of fashion, gone are the days of Lipinski, Slutskaya and soon Asada. Pity, if the 3R after a triple is rewarded with say a bonus of 15%, I bet many ladies will try. For the 3A, it seems the BV is not attractive enough.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Tacking a 3R seems to be out of fashion, gone are the days of Lipinski, Slutskaya and soon Asada.
    It seemed to be very much in fashion in the late 90s/early 00s, after Lipinski popularized it. And then a lot of girls ended up with career-ending hip injuries. Including Lipinski. There definitely seemed to be correlation.

    Slutskaya, Ando, Asada don't seem to have had those problems, so it's not guaranteed to destroy hips, but is it worth the risk?

  6. #51
    Custom Title Franklin99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    It seemed to be very much in fashion in the late 90s/early 00s, after Lipinski popularized it. And then a lot of girls ended up with career-ending hip injuries. Including Lipinski. There definitely seemed to be correlation.

    Slutskaya, Ando, Asada don't seem to have had those problems, so it's not guaranteed to destroy hips, but is it worth the risk?
    Is the 3f-3lo base value the same or lower than a 3lz-3t base value? (I tried googling and got a bunch of different outcomes).

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin99 View Post
    Is the 3f-3lo base value the same or lower than a 3lz-3t base value? (I tried googling and got a bunch of different outcomes).
    3F + 3Lo = 5.3 + 5.1 = 10.4

    3Lz + 3T = 6.0 + 4.1 = 10.1

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimi View Post
    That 10% sounds reasonable to me, and then maybe they could get rid of the 80% rule for sequences? It just doesn't make any sense to me that if you do a 3t2a sequence, it's worth less than doing 3t and 2a separately. Also, more variety in jump layouts IMO wouldn't be a bad thing.
    Loss of 20% seems a bit steep but without some deduction skaters can rack up points with easy sequences that do not look pretty. Yuzuru's 4T+3A+3A+3A above is pretty cool today, but imagine a lady doing 3T+2A+2A+2A+SEQ or something easier. Not sure how exciting that would look but it sure will collect points.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelENTL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots
    This is one of the glaring flaws of the judging system. It doesn't reward difficulty of combos. A skater doing a 3Z-3T combo and 2A will get the same amount of points as a skater doing a lone 3Z and 2A-3T combo. That's why the 2A-3T combo has become so popular with the ladies
    That is a very glaring flaw. Surprising that it hasn't been rectified.
    It is a flaw. I am guessing the current rules are justified on the basis that a skater doing a 3Lz-3T combo can repeat a 3Lz while a skater doing a lone 3Lz cannot repeat it. Only acceptable alternative is to assign values to all possible variations of combos which is probably too many and too complex, so it's kind of a dilemma. Giving bonus to combos also risks pushing skaters toward easier combos to earn points instead of doing a more difficult jump. I mean, it wasn't long ago that people were upset that men could win a competition without a quad. Imagine giving bonus to 3-3's or 3-2's.

  10. #55
    tripping on the toe pick
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    ^^ re: ladies and possible 3t2a2a2a+seq:
    Right, but sequences/combos with 4 jumps are illegal anyway, and I don't think all those triple-double-double combos we see in the latter half of the program look particularly exiting, either.

    Also, looking at the previous answers concerning Kanako, apparently doing a 2a or even 1a in sequence in competition is more risky and challenging than one would think... So unless you have a really, really reliable axel technique and competitive nerve, you'd better stick to those double toes and double loops anyway(?)

  11. #56
    a cat watching figure skating alebi's Avatar
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    then why not giving a bonus (for ex. 10%) only for the second triple jump in a combo (or a triple following a quad)? this way a 3Lz-3T gets a bonus on the 3T while a 2A-3T no... this should "force" skaters to train difficult combos

  12. #57
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    I agree. Current 3-2-2's aren't that exciting and mostly performed to collect points. But it's difficult to come up with an alternative that is fair to everyone.

    How about: Each jump in 3 jump combo should contain more revolution(s) than another.

    That would limit 3 jump combos to 4-3-2, 5-4-3, 6-5-4 etc.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimini View Post
    3F + 3Lo = 5.3 + 5.1 = 10.4

    3Lz + 3T = 6.0 + 4.1 = 10.1
    Thank you jimimi.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    It seemed to be very much in fashion in the late 90s/early 00s, after Lipinski popularized it. And then a lot of girls ended up with career-ending hip injuries. Including Lipinski. There definitely seemed to be correlation.

    Slutskaya, Ando, Asada don't seem to have had those problems, so it's not guaranteed to destroy hips, but is it worth the risk?
    Lipinski was the famous one but I also hear that she just overtrained and it wasn't really just the 3-3 that killed her hip. Is there any other prominent skater who actually had a career-ending hip injury directly attributable to the 3-3Loop? Seeing Slutskaya, then Ando and Asada last this long while training their combinations makes me slightly doubtful.

  15. #60
    tripping on the toe pick
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    How about: Each jump in 3 jump combo should contain more revolution(s) than another.

    That would limit 3 jump combos to 4-3-2, 5-4-3, 6-5-4 etc.
    So 2a3t would be outlawed then?

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