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Thread: About jump combos

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Well, I was talking about 3 jump combo not 2 jump combo, but 2A-3T should be fine just as 2A-3T-4Lo. It doesn't violate the rule of more revolution(s) per jump.
    Uh you would need a jet pack strapped to your right foot to rotate that 4Lo.

  2. #77
    Rinkside
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    Initially I had the same feeling with you, I hated Hanyu's layout with "falling 4S strategy" and I though it was simply cheating the points, or what Japanese media reported as "designed to win". But when the season's finished, and I reviewed his results, I realized this "designed to win" layout only worked when the 4S is fully rotated, and must be back on track with the next 4T without hesitation, otherwise he would still get harshly punished. Of course we can still argue whether it makes sense that 10.5-GOE 3-deduction 1 = 6.5 still weighs more than a 3Lz. For me this 4pts punishment is almost enough. And if the single quad falls with UR and only gets 70% credit, he still can not avoid another -3 GOE then -1 deduction. So in retrospect, he's won GPF and OG with this cheating points layout, but it would not have worked if he had not fully rotated the 4S, and did 3A combination with difficult entries in 2nd half of program.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandaatlarge View Post
    Initially I had the same feeling with you, I hated Hanyu's layout with "falling 4S strategy" and I though it was simply cheating the points, or what Japanese media reported as "designed to win". But when the season's finished, and I reviewed his results, I realized this "designed to win" layout only worked when the 4S is fully rotated, and must be back on track with the next 4T without hesitation, otherwise he would still get harshly punished. Of course we can still argue whether it makes sense that 10.5-GOE 3-deduction 1 = 6.5 still weighs more than a 3Lz. For me this 4pts punishment is almost enough. And if the single quad falls with UR and only gets 70% credit, he still can not avoid another -3 GOE then -1 deduction. So in retrospect, he's won GPF and OG with this cheating points layout, but it would not have worked if he had not fully rotated the 4S, and did 3A combination with difficult entries in 2nd half of program.
    I don't see it this way. You need to calculate points. He could "easily" be able to do layout with two 4T's and score usually higher than with 4S fall, and his performances of FS would be more consistent, because this jump didn't worked all season. It is not "win strategy". It is just he wants to have this 4S so badly Orser propably was holding breath every time Hanyu was going for 4S in FS. I think he was many times falling this jump just in mind, because currently he is jumping it in practices very consistent and with quality for +3 across the board
    As I mentioned Orser wanted him to drop 4S for second 4T, but Hanyu not wanted to even hear that

  4. #79
    Rinkside
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    No I don't think so, I actually calculated it. If he does a 4T+3T combination then what jump does he have to do to replace the 4S? The next choice with highest BV will be 2A, not worthy at all.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandaatlarge View Post
    No I don't think so, I actually calculated it. If he does a 4T+3T combination then what jump does he have to do to replace the 4S? The next choice with highest BV will be 2A, not worthy at all.
    He can go for one quad in 2nd half I mean I not calculated BV layout with two 4T, but what I mean that with his best quality on jumps and two 4T instead of fall on 4S he could score higher than with program will fall, because if you count all things on that 4S = fall ( - 1 ) , GOE ( -3 ), GOE loss ( let's count that he could be able to do +2 GOE on landed 4S jump ) then you will get that he was wasting 6 pts



    But I personally I understand Hanyu's look on 4S, and I hope he will finally reward himself for all this ice cleaning with consistent 4S next season

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by HanDomi View Post
    He can go for one quad in 2nd half I mean I not calculated BV layout with two 4T, but what I mean that with his best quality on jumps and two 4T instead of fall on 4S he could score higher than with program will fall, because if you count all things on that 4S = fall ( - 1 ) , GOE ( -3 ), GOE loss ( let's count that he could be able to do +2 GOE on landed 4S jump ) then you will get that he was wasting 6 pts
    Do you seriously believe his current condition can afford a 4T then 6 triples in the 2nd half
    I believe he will be able to do that in the future, but not sure which one is actually more risky.

    Anyway I also watched that TV program, and I appreciate his attitude a lot, but I still think this program is more skewed to "designed to win" than "designed to impress". Nevertheless he still gave 3 impressive enough performances with it (GPF, Nationals, Worlds), and as I said it above, he could only manage to win because he at least got the determination to fully rotate that 4S instead of doubling or tripling or not doing it at all, and executed the other elements required with consistency, otherwise he wouldn't win. So I began to appreciate the determination he delivered the plan later, although not the program itself.

    It seems this conversation went a bit far from the original topic... well there is no doubt Hanyu is a CoP maximizer with so aggressive, 3 combination in 2nd half program. But just imagine if ISU decides to give sequence 100% credit, then what a monster score we will see on a 4T3A then a 4S3A XDDDDD

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by HanDomi View Post
    He can go for one quad in 2nd half
    Why would we expect a 4T in the second half to be any more consistently rotated or landed than 4S at the beginning of the program?

    These guys aren't robots. Lactic acid buildup is real; muscle fatigue is real. It's much harder to jump as high and rotate as fast after an additional 2 minutes of skating.

    If he repeats 4T, then he would need to put a 2T on the end of one of them instead of the second 3A.

    And I would expect he'd do it near the beginning of the program, give up a few points in base value compared to the current layout, but possibly end up with more success, greater average GOE across all jump passes, hopefully no fall deductions.

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