Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 117

Thread: Daisuke instead of Takahiko - Fair decision or not ?

  1. #1
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    470

    Daisuke instead of Takahiko - Fair decision or not ?

    I find it's not fair to send Daisuke instead of Takahiko.

    I feel so bad for Takahiko who prove himself this season that he can be a contender for a medal at Sochi. He makes huge improvement this season and really deserve a spot for Sochi.

    I understand that Daisuke has been one of the most artistic skater and as many fans in the worlds.

    But, to me if Daisuke doesn't skate enough for a medal at Japanese nationals that's prove that he isn't deserving that spot, only the best athlete should go to Sochi. The Nationals is all the matter, so Hanyu, Machida and Kozuka deserve more to be at Sochi.

    If we would talk about Mirai Nagasu at this year nationals, if she finished off the top 3, the USFS will not send her for Sochi and even if she has a lot of fan in the worlds that's is not a good reason to send her. Figure skating should not select their skater by their popularity, they should select them by their performance. So, I'm really angry to see Daisuke getting that spot for the Olympic and take a place of a skater who prove himself to be a contender for Sochi.

    If this happen, I would like to say that I want Mirai Nagasu in the olympic team if she is off the podium at nationals. Why giving a favor to Daisuke and not Mirai.

    So, for me only the top 3 at nationals deserve to go at Sotchi.

    What you think about this ?

    Do you think that it's fair to send Daisuke instead of Takahiko for Sochi ?

  2. #2
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post

    If we would talk about Mirai Nagasu at this year nationals, if she finished off the top 3, the USFS will not send her for Sochi and even if she has a lot of fan in the worlds that's is not a good reason to send her.
    This is an inaccurate comparison because Japan and US have different criteria set out for choosing its Olympic team.

  3. #3
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    744
    Dai is my favorite and I am happy he is going to the Olympics. However, I hate the selection process of team Japan, because their criteria is pretty much we can do what we want. Sorry he was 5th at nationals and I feel the same way about Miki going in 2006. I think it gives the message to skaters who are not so popular, well nationals is not that important. I am conflicted, happy my favorite male skater is going to the Olympics, but I think the selection process is to vague. Top three at nationals simple and clear.

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,275
    Absolutely not a fair decision. It wasn't even close at Nationals (and should have been way more than a 12 point differential). I mean, Takahashi made 3 errors and fell in his SP and 4 errors and fell in his LP, and that qualifies him for the Olympic team? They might as well have announced him to the team before Nationals, along with Hanyu, and said that the remaining spot would go to the highest of Machida/Oda/Kozuka. Clearly, however Hanyu/Takahashi skated at Nationals wasn't going to make any difference to them making the team.

    Oda did the best of the 3 on the GP and made the GPF, Kozuka placed higher than Oda and Takahashi at Nationals, Takahashi has the highest rank and even though he bombed at Nationals he had a good GP at NHK and a strong GP season last year (including a GPF win). The only fair thing would have been a skate off at 4CC.

  5. #5
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    55
    It was very hard decision to make by Japan federation. Oda did best on gp and in this season but at 4th place nationals will be difficult to give him Sochi over Kozuka. Kozuka has 3rd place nationals but not much more now. Takahasi has 5h place but one gp win and high world status. It was hard decision but not unfair I say. US mostly send podium at nationals but it is different country with another selection plan.

  6. #6
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mainz, Germany
    Posts
    894
    Like any athlete, if he gets chosen to go, I can't imagine he would "decline". Noone should ask that of him. It's his dream to compete at the Olympics. Just as it is Takahiko's. So whoever gets chosen, I sincerely hope they won't get bombarded by people discussing that "it should have been the other one" and telling him "you should give your spot away".

    --WHAT I HOPE WILL HAPPEN
    They send Kozuka. They all competed for 3 spots with a huge amount of pressure, and he earned his 3rd place today.
    --WHAT I THINK WOULD BE FAIR
    They organize a shootout between Kozuka and Takahashi at a later date: 4CC or just the 2 of them, factoring in their performances of the entire practice sessions to figure out who's fitter.
    --WHAT I FEAR WILL HAPPEN
    They send Takahashi, basta.
    --MY PSYCHADELIC NIGHTMARE OF WHAT HAPPENS
    They announce that they will only send 2 men to the Olympics and give away the last spot, with the message that "WE DO WHATEVER WE WANT! THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!" Of course, this results in the JFSF being overthrown in a bloodbath. The Japanese Government gets overthrown as well, kind of as a casualty. Vive la révolution!
    I wished they'd sent Takahiko. But I'll respect what I wrote and I'll let Daisuke enjoy his Olympic Experience 100%.
    Us debating it now won't bring Takahiko to the Olympics, it could just lessen Daisuke's experience. I'll try to be as decent about it as Takahiko was. Still, my heart breaks for him.

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,656
    There has been much dissension about the US selection process for lack of flexibility, citing JSF's procedure as a possible model. I think each system will be either justified or discredited depending on how well the selected skaters' performances will be ultimately. So neither will always be satisfactory to all, with the approval resting on how popular the selected skaters are and their actual results at the events they are sent to. They will always be times when the selection is more difficult or controversial than others.

    The important thing then is how clear and understood the selection criteria is as well as how fair the judging is at the selection event(s). The US model is more clear cut and leave little negotiation room while the Japanese' is more comprehensive and flexible. In the end, both can cause heartbreaks.

  8. #8
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,725
    Takahiko is my favorite Japanese man, and I am sad that he won't be going to Sochi. However, the JSF has made clear that a bronze medal alone will not get you the third spot, and Dai has had great results for several years. If he is healthy he will definitely be among the favorites to medal.

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Dai is my favorite and I am happy he is going to the Olympics. However, I hate the selection process of team Japan, because their criteria is pretty much we can do what we want. Sorry he was 5th at nationals and I feel the same way about Miki going in 2006. I think it gives the message to skaters who are not so popular, well nationals is not that important. I am conflicted, happy my favorite male skater is going to the Olympics, but I think the selection process is to vague. Top three at nationals simple and clear.
    While top 3 at Nationals usually makes sense, I think there should be a number of factors considered, with Nationals playing heavily as a factor. That's the problem, Nationals ended up being a minor criteria when World ranking ended up being a huge one.

    Frankly, world ranking is a stupid criterion... and clearly the state of one's skating in one season doesn't reflect the next and the rankings don't regard this (see, Leonova being ranked over Kim, Pogorilaya, Li; Miner ranked higher than Brown, Mura ranked ahead of Kozuka, etc.). It was obvious that this particularly 3rd one of the criteria was established as a fail-safe in case Takahashi bombed at Nationals. Even if Takahashi didn't skate as well as he did at NHK he still probably would have been selected for the team.

  10. #10
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,275
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I dont think Nationals was irrelevant. Had Oda placed 3rd instead of Kozuka he probably would have made it. Had Kozuka placed 2nd the team probably would have been Machida (with 3rd place), Kozuka, and Hanyu. Neither Oda or Kozuka did what was realistically required of them to bump Takahashi even with his 5th place finish off the team.
    I disagree. Oda placing 3rd wouldn't have made a difference, considering the JSF's hate-on of him (you could tell the way they lowballed him at NHK and the SP at Nationals).

    It was clearly Hanyu + Takahashi + best of Kozuka/Oda/Machida who were going to make the team in the long run. I honestly thought the JSF wouldn't do that, but apparently Takahashi skating here was merely a formality.

  11. #11
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I disagree. Oda placing 3rd wouldn't have made a difference, considering the JSF's hate-on of him (you could tell the way they lowballed him at NHK and the SP at Nationals).
    I think Oda with 3rd is very hard not to send for Sochi. If you think for conspiracy maybe it is reason for Kozuka get very good score. Japan federation knew from practice Takahashi will not skate good and also knew they can send him over Kozuka 3rd place but not over Oda 3rd place. 4CC skate off is very close to Olympics, maybe not perfect way to prepare for it.

  12. #12
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Takahiko is my favorite Japanese man, and I am sad that he won't be going to Sochi. However, the JSF has made clear that a bronze medal alone will not get you the third spot, and Dai has had great results for several years. If he is healthy he will definitely be among the favorites to medal.
    THIS is true

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    883
    I don't know if it was fair or not, and I'm sure the JSF has their reasons for what they did. However, it was so heartbreaking watching Kozuka's interview.

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    247
    I think that, doing a comparison of what Daisuke achieved in this past four years, and doing the same for Takahiko -- not to mention this Grand Prix season, where Dai was more successful than Taka was -- that it is fair to send Daisuke to Sochi regardless of the results of Nationals. He is definitely the best bet of the two, and Daisuke should be recovering from his injury. The criteria allow it, so it's not like JSF went against their own rules. They simply created rules that allowed them to do what they wanted -- which is prevent their favourites from falling out of the team.

    What I don't agree with is sending Daisuke to Worlds instead of Takahiko. It's like the federation is saying that the results of Nationals don't matter after all. Taka beat Dai pretty soundly there, with a big points gap even though Dai was given PCS probably too high considering the performances he put out there. Not to mention that Taka had to skate fighting with injury as well. This has to mean something.

    I'm feeling so sorry for him right now. He said afterwards that he hoped he would have been sent at the very least to Worlds, and that he has some thoughts about the decision but will abide by the federation's decision.

  15. #15
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    878
    I feel badly for Taka and like his elegant skating a lot but like Dai a lot also and felt terrible for him after his poor LP. I think the idea of a 4CC skate-off would have been a good one. It would have more realistically assessed the state of each skater's preparedness much closer to the Olys to see who was healthiest and skating best. But its over and done with sad to say and not such a fair process in the end.

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •