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Thread: Daisuke instead of Takahiko - Fair decision or not ?

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    Wasn't Japan given the 2014 only after they gave up the 2011 event due to the tsunami disaster?

    To hear you talk, the JSF is nothing but a corrupt federation, and the Japanese skaters win only because of this. Of course, it has nothing to do with their talent.
    I knew someone would used this argument, very predictable. So Japan is entitled to the 2014 Worlds for what happened in 2011, fine, no problem with that. What made them entitled to the 2013 GPF then? The ISU knows full well, Worlds will be in Japan in 2014 prior to determining the host of the 2013 GPF but still gave it to Japan merely 3 years after Japan last hosted in 2010. There are 6 countries who can host GPF and they usually rotate but GPF returned to Japan merely 3 years into the cycle and it has to be an Olympic year, like last time, how do you explain that? Why does Olympic year GPF, the most important international competition before the Olympic has to take place in Japan two quads in the row? To say this is just a coincidence is well, naive.

  2. #107
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    Not fair, but that's life for you.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I knew someone would used this argument, very predictable. So Japan is entitled to the 2014 Worlds for what happened in 2011, fine, no problem with that. What made them entitled to the 2013 GPF then? The ISU knows full well, Worlds will be in Japan in 2014 prior to determining the host of the 2013 GPF but still gave it to Japan merely 3 years after Japan last hosted in 2010. There are 6 countries who can host GPF and they usually rotate but GPF returned to Japan merely 3 years into the cycle and it has to be an Olympic year, like last time, how do you explain that? Why does Olympic year GPF, the most important international competition before the Olympic has to take place in Japan two quads in the row? To say this is just a coincidence is well, naive.
    I stand corrected, Japan has hosted the Olympic year GPF 3 times in a row, not 2. 2005-06, 2009-10 and 2013-14. In 9 seasons, they managed to host the GPF 3 times and everytime during the Olympic year where Europeans/4CC had diminished importance due to proximity to the Olympic Games and many absences from top skaters therefore, making the GPF the default last major international competition prior to the Games. To give you an idea how disproportional this was, during this 9 year period, the United States did not get to host the GPF at all - exactly 0 time. It tells us this has a lot to do with the diminished popularity of figure skating in the U.S. and consequently, making these events less profitable. This also tells us that this is not just a mere coincidence and profit is clearly a consideration. To be clear, I am all for corporate sponsors injecting much needed cash into this sport, whatever country they are from. I accept this world is not fair, not even close yet at the same time, I am also not naïve.

  4. #109
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    From a skater's perspective would you rather skate in an empty stadium ála Skate America this year or in a hot pot like Fukuoka/Saitama? There are no Grand Prixs anymore in Germany, even though we have succesful athletes. They never have the advantage of home ice, the last Worlds here was 10 year ago, I think. But it is ok, because the attendance would be very disappointing to the skaters. I think it absolutely makes sense to give Japan lots of big events, because fs is the most popular in this country. Might change after the big guns retire, next year.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I stand corrected, Japan has hosted the Olympic year GPF 3 times in a row, not 2. 2005-06, 2009-10 and 2013-14. In 9 seasons, they managed to host the GPF 3 times and everytime during the Olympic year where Europeans/4CC had diminished importance due to proximity to the Olympic Games and many absences from top skaters therefore, making the GPF the default last major international competition prior to the Games. To give you an idea how disproportional this was, during this 9 year period, the United States did not get to host the GPF at all - exactly 0 time. It tells us this has a lot to do with the diminished popularity of figure skating in the U.S. and consequently, making these events less profitable. This also tells us that this is not just a mere coincidence and profit is clearly a consideration. To be clear, I am all for corporate sponsors injecting much needed cash into this sport, whatever country they are from. I accept this world is not fair, not even close yet at the same time, I am also not naïve.
    I have no idea how locations are determined, I assume the federations put their bids in. If the US did not get to host a GPF, maybe they didn't put a bid in, same as other countries. I don't see the US skaters crying foul. In fact, from all appearances, it seems most skaters enjoy skating in Japan.

  6. #111
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    If the US put in a bid for the GPF, it would likely be either for Colorado Springs (and does anyone really want to see skaters gasping and turning green because of the altitude again?) Or Lake Placid, the original "you can't get there from here" location. I'm happy for it to be where great skating gets the great crowds it deserves.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 01-02-2014 at 06:36 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    If the US put in a bid for the GPF, it would likely be either for Colorado Springs (and does anyone really want to see skaters gasping and turning green because of the altitude again?) Or Lake Placid, the original "you can't get there from here" location. I'm happy for it to be where great skating gets the great crimes it deserves.
    Candidate for the "Darn this auto-correct function" game? Great crowds, maybe?

  8. #113
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, I meant crowds.
    I hate autocorrect.

  9. #114
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    I actually enjoyed trying to picture what great crimes great skating might deserve -- judging scandals? [NOT!] Jewel heists of the rich and famous attending swanky skating soirees? Criminally high endorsements for skaters? The mind can go in so many different directions ...

  10. #115
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    Plushenko the evil mastermind stealing puppies and kittens and babies, obviously.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Chan did not win by falling this season. In fact, so far this season, he has fallen 0 time but did not win every time. On the other hand, Hanyu has fallen at every major competition, both internationally and nationally, on his way to break World Guiness record and winning twice. Everyone know it has a lot to do with over 2/3 of ISU sponsors are Japanese corporations - a fact easily checked by picking out the names of these sponsors as they are prominently featured in each ISU event page and on the boards around the rinks. The amount of money they inject to the sport is such that like it or not, it makes a lot of business sense to see the Japanese skaters doing very well. Therefore, intentionally or not, they receive a major boost especially when the competition is in Japan. It wasn't just Hanyu. If you look at Mao Asada's skate at the GPF, the monstrous scores she received for an error-filled Free Skate - not just small errors either - is turning the ladies competition into a farce. Mao is not skating any better than 2 years ago, where she struggled to break 110 in Free Skate - her Triple Axel is still not consistent, no Triple Lutz, continuous UR of jumps, including doubles. What has changed in 2 years, to suddenly go from 110 to 130+? Nothing has changed - just different costume and music. Not surprisingly, Japan also receives a disproportional amount of ISU events every single year. Can anyone recall a year where the GPF and Worlds take place in the same country? From 2013 to 2014, Japan has hosted or will host : Four Continents Championships, GPF, World Championships, not counting NHK, Japan Open, WTT.

    To be clear, this has nothing to do with the Japanese skaters, they are just hard working athletes doing their best. Unfortunately, we live in a world where money is king and most things are inherently unfair. With the ISU struggling badly for money, Japan's influence on the ISU has grown exponentially. Therefore, the decision to pick Takahashi over Kozuka needs to be viewed not only for a merit standpoint but also a business standpoint. What makes the most business sense knowing how important sponsorship,viewership and ultimately the publicity& money affects Figure Skating? When one answers that question, the decision to pick Takahashi becomes a non-brainer.
    Do you even look at the protocols? Ouch. If your argument is right what happened during the GPF SP, Japan did not send a check on time to get Mao 3a ratified because it looked clean to most people and that competition was in Japan. Why is it wrong to have a country that actually has fans who attend the event host them. Did you see the crowds at Skate America?

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Do you even look at the protocols? Ouch. If your argument is right what happened during the GPF SP, Japan did not send a check on time to get Mao 3a ratified because it looked clean to most people and that competition was in Japan. Why is it wrong to have a country that actually has fans who attend the event host them. Did you see the crowds at Skate America?
    Whatever, wallylutz is just angry at Japan in general these days, mostly thanks to Yuzuru Hanyu I guess. It's highly misleading to count 2013 4CC as that was last season. This season, 2014 4CC is actually in Taipei, Taiwan (which hasn't been a Japanese possession since 1945 but I guess that's grounds for wallylutz to count it too). And of course, this season's Worlds would not have been in Japan had the 2011 earthquake not occurred. If we are to talk about the GPF, Russia has hosted it 4 times since its inception, the same as Japan. Counting two cheesefests (of which WTT was, again, last season) and a GP event beyond that is just . I suppose America was getting a disproportionate amount of events when they held Skate America, Marshalls Challenge and Campbell's Challenge too.

    Not to mention his assessment of Asada is also inaccurate in the extreme. In late 2011 and early 2012 (i.e. two years ago), she broke 120 points twice and scored high 110s twice. At this point two years ago, Mao Asada was "not consistent" with the triple Axel because she wasn't even attempting it, and when she tried later on that season she failed all attempts while this season she has at least gotten credit several times. Given the way he thinks Rochette should have beaten Asada at the 2010 Olympics, I'm sure he also thinks Osmond should have placed ahead of her at 2013 Worlds.

    On topic Takahashi instead of Kozuka is fair, but Takahashi over Oda is not. Oda should've probably won bronze over Kozuka anyway.

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