Daisuke instead of Takahiko - Fair decision or not ? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Daisuke instead of Takahiko - Fair decision or not ?

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
To be clear, this has nothing to do with the Japanese skaters, they are just hard working athletes doing their best. Unfortunately, we live in a world where money is king and most things are inherently unfair. With the ISU struggling badly for money, Japan's influence on the ISU has grown exponentially. Therefore, the decision to pick Takahashi over Kozuka needs to be viewed not only for a merit standpoint but also a business standpoint. What makes the most business sense knowing how important sponsorship,viewership and ultimately the publicity& money affects Figure Skating? When one answers that question, the decision to pick Takahashi becomes a non-brainer.

I think the US women benefitted from the financial influence for a long time. Neither Sarah Hughes or Tara Lipinski would be Olympic champions had they not been from the US. Not that they weren't deserving on the nights they won, but I don't think they would have had the same career trajectory had they been from Uzbekistan or Hungary. Both skaters had deficiencies that judges could have easily capped their second mark at 5.5 for the duration of their careers.

Back to Japan, the nature of judged sports is that every country is trying to gain the upper hand for their athletes. Whether it is pumping money into the sport, or trading votes with another country, or having your judge email other judges to criticize a top contender from a different country, every federation does some underhanded things to put their athletes ahead.
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Chan did not win by falling this season. In fact, so far this season, he has fallen 0 time but did not win every time. On the other hand, Hanyu has fallen at every major competition, both internationally and nationally, on his way to break World Guiness record and winning twice. Everyone know it has a lot to do with over 2/3 of ISU sponsors are Japanese corporations - a fact easily checked by picking out the names of these sponsors as they are prominently featured in each ISU event page and on the boards around the rinks. The amount of money they inject to the sport is such that like it or not, it makes a lot of business sense to see the Japanese skaters doing very well. Therefore, intentionally or not, they receive a major boost especially when the competition is in Japan. It wasn't just Hanyu. If you look at Mao Asada's skate at the GPF, the monstrous scores she received for an error-filled Free Skate - not just small errors either - is turning the ladies competition into a farce. Mao is not skating any better than 2 years ago, where she struggled to break 110 in Free Skate - her Triple Axel is still not consistent, no Triple Lutz, continuous UR of jumps, including doubles. What has changed in 2 years, to suddenly go from 110 to 130+? Nothing has changed - just different costume and music. Not surprisingly, Japan also receives a disproportional amount of ISU events every single year. Can anyone recall a year where the GPF and Worlds take place in the same country? From 2013 to 2014, Japan has hosted or will host : Four Continents Championships, GPF, World Championships, not counting NHK, Japan Open, WTT.

To be clear, this has nothing to do with the Japanese skaters, they are just hard working athletes doing their best. Unfortunately, we live in a world where money is king and most things are inherently unfair. With the ISU struggling badly for money, Japan's influence on the ISU has grown exponentially. Therefore, the decision to pick Takahashi over Kozuka needs to be viewed not only for a merit standpoint but also a business standpoint. What makes the most business sense knowing how important sponsorship,viewership and ultimately the publicity& money affects Figure Skating? When one answers that question, the decision to pick Takahashi becomes a non-brainer.

Wasn't Japan given the 2014 only after they gave up the 2011 event due to the tsunami disaster?

To hear you talk, the JSF is nothing but a corrupt federation, and the Japanese skaters win only because of this. Of course, it has nothing to do with their talent.:rolleye:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
To be fair, Yuzuru has improved considerably and the very reasons Chan has won in the past (his competitors made mistakes in the SP, and even with a fall(s) his BV was much higher, his GOE is excellent, and his overall skating is better) is making him the beneficiary of wins this season.

I mean, Hanyu with a fall at Japanese nationals not only placed ahead of a clean Machida and clean Oda in the FS, he placed 10 and 15 points ahead of each one respectively in the segment. Nobody's complaining because they acknowledge that his BV was higher, he gets amazing GOE on the elements he executes, and the rest of his skating is at a higher level than those two. Not to mention the GPF where Hanyu won the FS segment with a fall over a clean Chan. But, hey, if it's Chan at 2012 Worlds, everybody scream bloody murder! :rolleye:
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
The 1999-2000 season: the GPF was in Lyon, France and Worlds was in Nice, France that year.

Unfortunately, that was the year where the Worlds was originally given to Australia but taken away due to a dispute between the ISU and the Australian Ice Skating association. The Nice Worlds in 2000 was in fact a replacement World Championship. The 2014 Worlds however was never assigned to anyone other than Japan, neither was the 2013 GPF.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Wasn't Japan given the 2014 only after they gave up the 2011 event due to the tsunami disaster?

To hear you talk, the JSF is nothing but a corrupt federation, and the Japanese skaters win only because of this. Of course, it has nothing to do with their talent.:rolleye:

I knew someone would used this argument, very predictable. :) So Japan is entitled to the 2014 Worlds for what happened in 2011, fine, no problem with that. What made them entitled to the 2013 GPF then? The ISU knows full well, Worlds will be in Japan in 2014 prior to determining the host of the 2013 GPF but still gave it to Japan merely 3 years after Japan last hosted in 2010. There are 6 countries who can host GPF and they usually rotate but GPF returned to Japan merely 3 years into the cycle and it has to be an Olympic year, like last time, how do you explain that? Why does Olympic year GPF, the most important international competition before the Olympic has to take place in Japan two quads in the row? To say this is just a coincidence is well, naive.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I knew someone would used this argument, very predictable. :) So Japan is entitled to the 2014 Worlds for what happened in 2011, fine, no problem with that. What made them entitled to the 2013 GPF then? The ISU knows full well, Worlds will be in Japan in 2014 prior to determining the host of the 2013 GPF but still gave it to Japan merely 3 years after Japan last hosted in 2010. There are 6 countries who can host GPF and they usually rotate but GPF returned to Japan merely 3 years into the cycle and it has to be an Olympic year, like last time, how do you explain that? Why does Olympic year GPF, the most important international competition before the Olympic has to take place in Japan two quads in the row? To say this is just a coincidence is well, naive.

I stand corrected, Japan has hosted the Olympic year GPF 3 times in a row, not 2. 2005-06, 2009-10 and 2013-14. In 9 seasons, they managed to host the GPF 3 times and everytime during the Olympic year where Europeans/4CC had diminished importance due to proximity to the Olympic Games and many absences from top skaters therefore, making the GPF the default last major international competition prior to the Games. To give you an idea how disproportional this was, during this 9 year period, the United States did not get to host the GPF at all - exactly 0 time. It tells us this has a lot to do with the diminished popularity of figure skating in the U.S. and consequently, making these events less profitable. This also tells us that this is not just a mere coincidence and profit is clearly a consideration. To be clear, I am all for corporate sponsors injecting much needed cash into this sport, whatever country they are from. I accept this world is not fair, not even close yet at the same time, I am also not naïve.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
From a skater's perspective would you rather skate in an empty stadium ála Skate America this year or in a hot pot like Fukuoka/Saitama? There are no Grand Prixs anymore in Germany, even though we have succesful athletes. They never have the advantage of home ice, the last Worlds here was 10 year ago, I think. But it is ok, because the attendance would be very disappointing to the skaters. I think it absolutely makes sense to give Japan lots of big events, because fs is the most popular in this country. Might change after the big guns retire, next year.
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
I stand corrected, Japan has hosted the Olympic year GPF 3 times in a row, not 2. 2005-06, 2009-10 and 2013-14. In 9 seasons, they managed to host the GPF 3 times and everytime during the Olympic year where Europeans/4CC had diminished importance due to proximity to the Olympic Games and many absences from top skaters therefore, making the GPF the default last major international competition prior to the Games. To give you an idea how disproportional this was, during this 9 year period, the United States did not get to host the GPF at all - exactly 0 time. It tells us this has a lot to do with the diminished popularity of figure skating in the U.S. and consequently, making these events less profitable. This also tells us that this is not just a mere coincidence and profit is clearly a consideration. To be clear, I am all for corporate sponsors injecting much needed cash into this sport, whatever country they are from. I accept this world is not fair, not even close yet at the same time, I am also not naïve.

I have no idea how locations are determined, I assume the federations put their bids in. If the US did not get to host a GPF, maybe they didn't put a bid in, same as other countries. I don't see the US skaters crying foul. In fact, from all appearances, it seems most skaters enjoy skating in Japan.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
If the US put in a bid for the GPF, it would likely be either for Colorado Springs (and does anyone really want to see skaters gasping and turning green because of the altitude again?) Or Lake Placid, the original "you can't get there from here" location. I'm happy for it to be where great skating gets the great crowds it deserves.
 
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ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
If the US put in a bid for the GPF, it would likely be either for Colorado Springs (and does anyone really want to see skaters gasping and turning green because of the altitude again?) Or Lake Placid, the original "you can't get there from here" location. I'm happy for it to be where great skating gets the great crimes it deserves.

Candidate for the "Darn this auto-correct function" game? Great crowds, maybe?;)
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
I actually enjoyed trying to picture what great crimes great skating might deserve -- judging scandals? [NOT!] Jewel heists of the rich and famous attending swanky skating soirees? Criminally high endorsements for skaters? The mind can go in so many different directions ...
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Plushenko the evil mastermind stealing puppies and kittens and babies, obviously.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Chan did not win by falling this season. In fact, so far this season, he has fallen 0 time but did not win every time. On the other hand, Hanyu has fallen at every major competition, both internationally and nationally, on his way to break World Guiness record and winning twice. Everyone know it has a lot to do with over 2/3 of ISU sponsors are Japanese corporations - a fact easily checked by picking out the names of these sponsors as they are prominently featured in each ISU event page and on the boards around the rinks. The amount of money they inject to the sport is such that like it or not, it makes a lot of business sense to see the Japanese skaters doing very well. Therefore, intentionally or not, they receive a major boost especially when the competition is in Japan. It wasn't just Hanyu. If you look at Mao Asada's skate at the GPF, the monstrous scores she received for an error-filled Free Skate - not just small errors either - is turning the ladies competition into a farce. Mao is not skating any better than 2 years ago, where she struggled to break 110 in Free Skate - her Triple Axel is still not consistent, no Triple Lutz, continuous UR of jumps, including doubles. What has changed in 2 years, to suddenly go from 110 to 130+? Nothing has changed - just different costume and music. Not surprisingly, Japan also receives a disproportional amount of ISU events every single year. Can anyone recall a year where the GPF and Worlds take place in the same country? From 2013 to 2014, Japan has hosted or will host : Four Continents Championships, GPF, World Championships, not counting NHK, Japan Open, WTT.

To be clear, this has nothing to do with the Japanese skaters, they are just hard working athletes doing their best. Unfortunately, we live in a world where money is king and most things are inherently unfair. With the ISU struggling badly for money, Japan's influence on the ISU has grown exponentially. Therefore, the decision to pick Takahashi over Kozuka needs to be viewed not only for a merit standpoint but also a business standpoint. What makes the most business sense knowing how important sponsorship,viewership and ultimately the publicity& money affects Figure Skating? When one answers that question, the decision to pick Takahashi becomes a non-brainer.

Do you even look at the protocols? Ouch. If your argument is right what happened during the GPF SP, Japan did not send a check on time to get Mao 3a ratified because it looked clean to most people and that competition was in Japan. Why is it wrong to have a country that actually has fans who attend the event host them. Did you see the crowds at Skate America?
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Do you even look at the protocols? Ouch. If your argument is right what happened during the GPF SP, Japan did not send a check on time to get Mao 3a ratified because it looked clean to most people and that competition was in Japan. Why is it wrong to have a country that actually has fans who attend the event host them. Did you see the crowds at Skate America?
Whatever, wallylutz is just angry at Japan in general these days, mostly thanks to Yuzuru Hanyu I guess. It's highly misleading to count 2013 4CC as that was last season. This season, 2014 4CC is actually in Taipei, Taiwan (which hasn't been a Japanese possession since 1945 but I guess that's grounds for wallylutz to count it too). And of course, this season's Worlds would not have been in Japan had the 2011 earthquake not occurred. If we are to talk about the GPF, Russia has hosted it 4 times since its inception, the same as Japan. Counting two cheesefests (of which WTT was, again, last season) and a GP event beyond that is just :rolleye:. I suppose America was getting a disproportionate amount of events when they held Skate America, Marshalls Challenge and Campbell's Challenge too.

Not to mention his assessment of Asada is also inaccurate in the extreme. In late 2011 and early 2012 (i.e. two years ago), she broke 120 points twice and scored high 110s twice. At this point two years ago, Mao Asada was "not consistent" with the triple Axel because she wasn't even attempting it, and when she tried later on that season she failed all attempts while this season she has at least gotten credit several times. Given the way he thinks Rochette should have beaten Asada at the 2010 Olympics, I'm sure he also thinks Osmond should have placed ahead of her at 2013 Worlds.

On topic Takahashi instead of Kozuka is fair, but Takahashi over Oda is not. Oda should've probably won bronze over Kozuka anyway.
 
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