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Thread: A Female Skater Who Has Everything, Is It Possible?

  1. #136
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamboni View Post
    No one will ever surpass Kwan for me. She was the most musical skater I have ever seen. She skated with pure joy.
    Joy and musicality are not the same thing. Michelle was not the most musical even of her contemporaries. She was a very consisten jumper with good spins, nice spiral, very outgoing and emotive with face, mostly smiling. She did well with lyrical music. I only saw her in person once doing Fields of Gold, which she phoned in-a long tour after 2002 Olympics.

    zSasha was more musical because she could do much more with body positions. Ssasha was very much the artistic skater, but her falls marred the impression.

    Akiko Suzuki is more musical than kwan, and I am a Kwan fan, esp of her 1996-2001 period. And then Tosca was really powerful and great. She made more effort before 2002 to skate with nuances. After that defeat and losing her edge, she worked to get the jumps in. There really were very little transitions, fancy footwork even in her 2003 win with Aranjuez. I used to get exasperated at the way she ride a long edge into the lutz and turn robotically and then jump. It was like "execute, Michelle' was on her forehead.

    I suppose I missed a great many exhibition programs with Tom Collins where she was more musical than her comp. programs. As she got older, she kind of lost the musicality, I thought.

    But outgoing, joyous, heart on her sleeve and wonderfully consistent are a great package, and always lovely with beautiful costumes. I think Akiko, Ashley, Caro and Mao are wonderfully musical skaters. Osmund may be the most musical/versatile of all of them. Rare to have someone dance that well and do triple jumps as well. So hope she is healing-love that girl.

  2. #137
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Kwan was overrated, the only good thing about her was her spirals.

    Carolina is the closest had her jumps been more reliable in the big events
    she has speed, jumps and a body type ideal for both presenting herself and long stroking on the ice
    Kostner is perfect for galas at least

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Kwan was overrated, the only good thing about her was her spirals.
    Wow. You've officially outdone yourself in the hating on skaters department.

    Saying Kostner is the closest if her jumps had been more reliable is like saying Sasha is the female skater who has everything, except for the whole lack of consistency thing.

    You're actually suggesting Carolina is closest to being the female skater who has everything... more than Michelle Kwan....

    Although, tbh, I'm disappointed you didn't suggest someone even more ludicrous like Gold.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Saying Kostner is the closest if her jumps had been more reliable is like saying Sasha is the female skater who has everything, except for the whole lack of consistency thing.
    Sasha, even with consistency, is not half the skater most of the top tier skaters today are. Even if Sasha can land 7 triples, her flutz is still a flutz, her tiny jumps are still tiny, her low level spins are still low level, her shallow edge throughout her step sequence is still shallow. Do you understand this?

    Kostner has textbook jumps in EVERY SINGLE triple. Has unmatched skating skill. Her jumps are huge. Her speed is blazing. sky_fly20 is hyperbolic, but it's not exactly unimaginable that a clean Kostner is as special as a unicorn. A clean Sasha is just an average skater with average skill and below average jumps and undeserved praised for steps and spins.

  5. #140
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Wow. You've officially outdone yourself in the hating on skaters department.

    Saying Kostner is the closest if her jumps had been more reliable is like saying Sasha is the female skater who has everything, except for the whole lack of consistency thing.

    You're actually suggesting Carolina is closest to being the female skater who has everything... more than Michelle Kwan....

    Although, tbh, I'm disappointed you didn't suggest someone even more ludicrous like Gold.
    Kwan was more consistent yes that is true, probably the reason her ubers think she's so great
    she had great spirals that is all

    Carolina has good edge on her jumps even her lutz !, her issues were mental not jump techniques
    Sasha Cohen even if she was more consistent would never be at par with Carolina
    look at how Carolina strokes in the ice, she never loses speed, step seq and skating skill is unmatched not even Mao or Yuna could ever get
    she has great body type too, so yes she is the closest to an ideal skater

  6. #141
    D*mn Idiot KwanIsALegand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Kwan was overrated, the only good thing about her was her spirals.

    Carolina is the closest had her jumps been more reliable in the big events
    she has speed, jumps and a body type ideal for both presenting herself and long stroking on the ice
    Kostner is perfect for galas at least

    Yeah, I guess being a skater with the most clean programs, winning 9 nationals and 5 worlds and two Olympic medals doesn't mean much?? You try and find another skater with Michelle's consistency. Lemme tell ya, in this sport consistency is the name of the game. It is what all skaters strive for and dream of. The reason she is always so highly praised is due to the fact that she brought down the house time and time again. If 'the only good thing about her was her spirals' than a lot of judges have a lot of explaining to do. She is an exceptional skater.
    You may not care for her skating, but to say she s overrated and that her spirals were her only asset is just ignorant and laughable.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Kwan was more consistent yes that is true, probably the reason her ubers think she's so great
    she had great spirals that is all

    Carolina has good edge on her jumps even her lutz !, her issues were mental not jump techniques
    Sasha Cohen even if she was more consistent would never be at par with Carolina
    look at how Carolina strokes in the ice, she never loses speed, step seq and skating skill is unmatched not even Mao or Yuna could ever get
    she has great body type too, so yes she is the closest to an ideal skater
    And Carolina's spins? Clearly, the ideal.

    Consistency is the name of the game. Saying a skater with poor consistency would be the best possible is worse than hypothetical, because it is a critical factor in their success. And yes, to say Kwan was only spirals is ignorant at best and just pure haterade at its worst.

  8. #143
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    And Carolina's spins? Clearly, the ideal.

    Consistency is the name of the game. Saying a skater with poor consistency would be the best possible is worse than hypothetical, because it is a critical factor in their success. And yes, to say Kwan was only spirals is ignorant at best and just pure haterade at its worst.
    the thread is about a skater if possible who has the most in everything, no ?
    if it were about the most consistent and the most number of medals then sure it will go to Kwan or Yuna

    Carolina's spins is not ideal
    but like I said she is the closest to a skater that has everything

  9. #144
    Custom Title mirai4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    If I were to morph a Perfect Skater:

    the Facial Beauty of Gracie Gold
    the Elegance of Dorothy Hamil
    the Jumps of Midori Ito
    the Lines and Flexibility of Julia
    the Consistency of Yuna
    the Body type of Carolina Kostner
    and Mao Asada's neck
    the Body type of "Yuna Kim"

  10. #145
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    One of the all-time greatests, Denise Bielmann.
    Here she won the LP in the Olympic Games in 1980, when triple jumps almost didn't exist in the ladies competition.
    Remember that Witt won the next 2 Olympics with only 2 kind of triples (toe-loop and salchow), and here years before that Denise Bielmann besides of her innovative, legendary spins, she did 3 Lutz ( a true one!!), 3 toe-loop, 3 Salchow and more 2 Axels in combinations !!

    http://youtu.be/x1_QiK85KRg

    She won the LP here but was only 4th overall because of her weak figures.

    A year later she won the European and World and retired as an amateur skater having a very long and attractive pro-carrier until her 40s, keeping her incredible shape and athleticism, winning several Pro Worldchampion titles constantly won the pro competitions over the great Yuka Sato, Yamaguchi and than Witt...

    Here is her performance winning the 1981. World title. With this she could easily win the Olympic in 1984,1988, 1992 when she was all active as a pro-skater!!!
    After 33 years this LP is still look familiar , very modern an COP-friendly!!!

    http://youtu.be/nLbW7lyjm-I

    In 1994, in her age of 31, she won over the new Olympic Champion, Oksana Baiul in the Pro Championships with this breathtaking performance, 13 years after her winning the World in 1981, with a performance like this:

    http://youtu.be/geTRwF5w8SY

    Incredible!

  11. #146
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    I wouldn't say Sasha was more musical than Michelle. Sasha had a lot of flair and beautiful positions, but I always felt Michelle had more choreographic vision and purpose in her movements. At her best, Michelle came close to having it all. There were simply no glaring weaknesses in her skating. She didn't have Sasha's flexibility but none of her positions were unsightly. She didn't have the most difficult jumps, but her jump content was still competitive during the era she was competing. She regularly attempted a 7 triple layout. On top of that, she had artistic vision and performance factor that were just unrivaled by anyone else.

  12. #147
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    For me it was Oksana Baiul at her peak. Unlike a lot of the ladies mention, she had great spins and all the triples through the lutz (although no 3-3).
    She also telegraphed her jumps more than other skaters of her era, which is one of the reasons why she wasn't a favorite of mine - JMHO.

  13. #148
    ♔Princess Li Zijun♔ Gigi13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    Yeah, I guess being a skater with the most clean programs, winning 9 nationals and 5 worlds and two Olympic medals doesn't mean much?? You try and find another skater with Michelle's consistency. Lemme tell ya, in this sport consistency is the name of the game. It is what all skaters strive for and dream of. The reason she is always so highly praised is due to the fact that she brought down the house time and time again. If 'the only good thing about her was her spirals' than a lot of judges have a lot of explaining to do. She is an exceptional skater.
    You may not care for her skating, but to say she s overrated and that her spirals were her only asset is just ignorant and laughable.
    This all of this.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I wouldn't say Sasha was more musical than Michelle. Sasha had a lot of flair and beautiful positions, but I always felt Michelle had more choreographic vision and purpose in her movements. At her best, Michelle came close to having it all. There were simply no glaring weaknesses in her skating. She didn't have Sasha's flexibility but none of her positions were unsightly. She didn't have the most difficult jumps, but her jump content was still competitive during the era she was competing. She regularly attempted a 7 triple layout. On top of that, she had artistic vision and performance factor that were just unrivaled by anyone else.
    IMO Sasha was not a superb musical skater early in her career, merely an adequate one. Her positions and style were already impeccable, and on par with Kwan, and her flexability and wow factor was well above Kwan and nearly everyone else in some areas. However as her career went on she became an outstanding interpretor of music. I think Tarasova was the big turning point for her in that regard. Her choreography and interpretation both improved a huge amount, and stayed so even after she dumped Tatiana.

    Anyway Sasha with weak jumps and weak basic skating could never be a skater who had it all, even if she is a truly special skater in her own way and it is a shame she didnt win multiple or atleast one major title. I think the knock she gets on inconsistency and nerves is unfair. She was really the most consistent skater of the 2002-2006 period, as she was the only one who competed that whole time, never came lower than 4th, and never was off the podium in any event from fall 2003 onwards (and I think the 2006 Worlds was even the only event she was lower than 2nd). That shows consistency. She was consistent with 1 or 2 mistakes, except for the rare and unfortunate exception of the 2006 Worlds where 1 or 2 mistakes would have still easily won her that elusive gold. She didnt do many clean programs since she wasnt a good jumper, so doing programs with 7 triples planned cleanly were always going to be difficult for someone with flawed jump technique on nearly every jump. I think that she landed as many as she did, when many skaters with far stronger jump technique didnt shows she was actually a very good competitor.

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