A Female Skater Who Has Everything, Is It Possible? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

A Female Skater Who Has Everything, Is It Possible?

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I should avoid this discussion like the plague, but the answer is NO.
Why? because as the sport evolves, & the rules change. Even aesthetics change. Today's perfect skater is not tomorrow's.
There was a day when people were repulsed by contortionist poses, and flexibility was therefore not important. Now it is a requirement.
There was a day when fine edge control was a requirement due to figures. Then it wasn't. Now with Patrick Chan's edges, edges are a big goal again.
There was a day when Janet Lynn could do triples and didn't because they were unnecessary and deemed unladylike.
There was a day when exquisite leg position in layback spins and in spirals were rewarded. Currently they are not.
There was a day when tiny little jumps like Kristi Yamaguchi's were just fine. Now, not so much.
There was a day when Ito's leg wrap was OK. Now people get critical about it.

And for that matter, the standard for facial beauty changes from year to year and from country to country.

So of course there is no ideal skater that will fit all ages & times. Nor will there be.

But there will always be skaters who capture your heart at the moment, whom you love to pieces, whose faults will be unimportant to you (even if not to some other people). They may even be skaters whose performances you will always love. But their appeal will never be 100% universal.
 
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jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes (hypothetically)--Peggy Fleming with Alissa Czisny's spins and Yu Na's jumps.
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Well, what is everything?
1. Doing the hardest jumps/all the jumps expected at that time
2. Looking very smooth, poised and beautiful (subjective)
3. Doing all the spins done in a time period
4. Having some originality/distinctiveness to make her interesting to watch (subjective)
5. Can't think of another person who does something better (sort of subjective)
6. Being consistent

Michelle didn't do triple triples when others did, so she's out from #1, and I don't think her spins were as flexible as some others were. Sarah and Tara had problems with #2, as does Julia--they look kiddish. Shizuka, I think won her medal with less triples than had Tara and Sarah, so she's out from #1. Oksana Baiul also didn't do combinations (or as many as she should), so she's out by #1.
Kristi couldn't do one particular jump (salchow, I think?), so she didn't have it all.

Mao is completely boring to me. She shows little personality on the ice. Even if she lands everything perfectly, it's just meh. To me, she doesn't fulfill #4. So Yuna would be the closest, perhaps, if she's consistent.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
I actually think Midori Ito comes closest to fulfilling those 6 criteria. Maybe some disagree with her having #2. Shizuka won OGM with easy content, but she won Worlds 2004 with 3 triple-triples in SP/LP combined. I would say Yuna doesn't fulfill #1 because she lacks the loop and besides her 3-3 her jump content is surprisingly easy compared to other top contenders.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
If I have to pick one in the past 20 years, the closest skater who has everything, life in skating, life outside of skating, life for the purpose of advancing the sport, it has to be Shizuka.

She has all the check marks on everything needed to be the best and divakawa put sasha in her place for cutting her off at practice! Attitude to match. What more can you ask for?
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
If I have to pick one in the past 20 years, the closest skater who has everything, life in skating, life outside of skating, life for the purpose of advancing the sport, it has to be Shizuka.
What more can you ask for?

She sure was amazing. The only thing I'd like to complete the picture would be "happiness while competing". I'm sure she's really happy now, but back then when she skated, she sometimes looked worn out by the pressure and admitted to consider retiring for lack of motivation a few times.
I don't think she enjoyed the experience of skating a lot before she won the OGM, and to me it showed...
 

Jedi

On the Ice
Joined
May 4, 2010
Probably Yuna is the most "perfect" spins, jumps, skating skills artistry. MIchelle has longevity but no OGM and her jumps ere rather small and she wasn't that flexible but she worked it like Kerrigan. Shizuka and Butyrskaya when on were pretty good too for completeness - Shizuka's oly performance and Maria's 1999 were awesome - Maria skated like a woman. Mao on good skates early on was very complete too - lyrical and expressive. For her era Liz Manley on her good skates at the Olympic was pretty complete too. Witt relied on her personality. Trenary was complete too when on. Slutskayia more on power. Kostner is complete but she has had far too many bad skates and I mean bad to deserve this title. Poetch was blah. Chen and Sato when on were strong all around too.
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I actually think Midori Ito comes closest to fulfilling those 6 criteria. Maybe some disagree with her having #2. Shizuka won OGM with easy content, but she won Worlds 2004 with 3 triple-triples in SP/LP combined. I would say Yuna doesn't fulfill #1 because she lacks the loop and besides her 3-3 her jump content is surprisingly easy compared to other top contenders.
Yuna has had all of the jumps at various points in her career. She was doing the 3loop until hip injuries made her drop it around 2007-8 (she didn't need it to win; why take the risk of cutting her career short with a freak injury?). You make it sound like she was constitutionally incapable of doing one, which is absurd. After a while, Michael Jordan stopped dunking from the free throw line, to save on physical wear and tear; he continued to win without it. No basketball fan would say that Jordan never had that dunk move.

If you recall her Vancouver layout, she was doing the 2a-3t as well; it was gobsmackingly gorgeous in the LP. The reason she discontinued it was because of post-Olympics rules changes limiting the number of 2As done; and whose fault was that? Don't even get me started. Water under the bridge now and all that, so I don't want to get into a fan war.

She also did an amazingly beautiful 3f-3t. See her 2009 record-breaking Worlds performances. But she switched to a 3lz-3t for the Olympic season.

The base value of her jump layout is about as high as she can make it without doing the 3lo, and given the aforementioned limitations on the 2a. Having said that, I will take issue with your objection on more fundamental ground: the "difficulty" of a jump layout is not only a function of the base value, but also of the achievable GOE. There are some who make a fetish of "base value", and, indeed, attempt to persuade people that BV and "difficulty" are equivalent terms.

Are we to understand that a jump with, say, +3 GOE characteristics (as opposed to 0 or negative GOE) is not significantly more difficult to execute successfully? When one thinks about it, the absurdity of such a proposition should be plain to see.

Furthermore, I argue that the difficulty of a jump layout must be measured by what can actually be successfully executed, not by what is "planned" or attempted in a half-baked way.

Therefore, on a basis of comprehensive technical difficulty in jumps (BV + GOE on jumps ratified), I maintain that Yuna's layout is more difficult, and not by a little, than that of any other skater.

As to the OP's original question: Poodlepals' criteria are a good start, and Yuna certainly fulfills them, I believe. In addition, however, Yuna fulfills an extra bullet point that Shizuka, for example, does not: Yuna demonstrated the ability to utterly dominate her competitive field (including other skaters who are destined to be classified, to a greater or lesser degree, as Greats, such as Mao and Caro), and this dominance was particularly marked at the most important events, e.g. pre-Oly 2009 Worlds, 2010 Vancouver Olys, and pre-Oly 2013 Worlds.

This is different from mere consistency. The ability to perform one's very best when it counts the most, which best is almost disjunctively of a different level from that of one's competitors, is a much less common trait, and the holy grail of athletes in all of sport.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Probably Yuna is the most "perfect" spins, jumps, skating skills artistry. MIchelle has longevity but no OGM and her jumps ere rather small and she wasn't that flexible but she worked it like Kerrigan. Shizuka and Butyrskaya when on were pretty good too for completeness - Shizuka's oly performance and Maria's 1999 were awesome - Maria skated like a woman. Mao on good skates early on was very complete too - lyrical and expressive. For her era Liz Manley on her good skates at the Olympic was pretty complete too. Witt relied on her personality. Trenary was complete too when on. Slutskayia more on power. Kostner is complete but she has had far too many bad skates and I mean bad to deserve this title. Poetch was blah. Chen and Sato when on were strong all around too.

Most perfect 3-3 and lutz. The rest not so much. Certainly not her spins (not compared to Alissa or Lucinda Ruh or the classic laybacks of Fleming, Lynn and Hamill). Nor her artistry--in the eye of the beholder of course, but I prefer Akiko Suzuki, Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Janet Lynn, Peggy Fleming. No loop jump. Average spirals.
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
So now are we requiring a skater who is not only very good in all areas, but one of the best in history in all areas. If it is the latter you would find nobody guaranteed, and there is no point doing this topic. Compared to most people Kim is a very good spinner. I considered Kwan a good spinner (some might differ there) and I consider Kim a much better spinner than Kwan. Fleming only had a good layback, her other spins were pretty weak. Many of them she only did about 2 turns in a position which was pathetic even for that era. I see how Dick Button would have brainwashed many Americans to thinking the only spin that existed was the layback, and the only thing that mattered about a spiral was getting your leg at 180 degrees (or 135 degrees but with a big goofy grin like Kwan or Kerrigan, and in Kerrigans case needing you hand gripped tightly on your knee yanking hard to even get it at that height too, lol). Average spirals wouldnt be getting +2s and +3s in GOE from the judges either.
Well said. Yuna's spins are not the best ever, but they are still strong relative to the general field, and are capable of garnering excellent scores.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
By today's standards and rulebooks, Chen Lu taking a few seconds standing still and drawing the audience/judges in with a look would be considered a "waste of precious time to stuff in some more technical content".
But since I miss those days, and think they ended up being more emotional and enjoyable to watch, I'd say the 1996 Chen Lu comes closest to the perfect skater ever in my book. (needless to say I think she should have won that WC title over Michelle Kwan, who I also like)
Her 1996 World SP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DeyZ5yY28
Her 1996 World LP*
http://3.hidemyass.com/ip-4/encoded/Oi8vd3d3LnlvdXR1YmUuY29tL3dhdGNoP3Y9Z0hFTXlwX1FGWW8=
(* for some annoying reason her LP is geoblocked in Germany. But I got to hide my *** and that's the link I put here. If you're lucky enough not to live in Germany, search for Chen Lu 陈露 (CHN) - 1996 World Figure Skating Championships from 3Axel1996 on regular youtube, the video quality is better!)

(her 1998 Olympic performance was beautiful and made me tear up, but part of the emotion was that she wasn't as consistent and clean on her jumps, so I'd still take the 1996 performance as her best performance)
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Yuna has had all of the jumps at various points in her career. She was doing the 3loop until hip injuries made her drop it around 2007-8 (she didn't need it to win; why take the risk of cutting her career short with a freak injury?). You make it sound like she was constitutionally incapable of doing one, which is absurd. After a while, Michael Jordan stopped dunking from the free throw line, to save on physical wear and tear; he continued to win without it. No basketball fan would say that Jordan never had that dunk move.

If you recall her Vancouver layout, she was doing the 2a-3t as well; it was gobsmackingly gorgeous in the LP. The reason she discontinued it was because of post-Olympics rules changes limiting the number of 2As done; and who's fault was that? Don't even get me started. Water under the bridge now and all that, so I don't want to get into a fan war.

She also did an amazingly beautiful 3f-3t. See her 2009 record-breaking Worlds performances. But she switched to a 3lz-3t for the Olympic season.
At various points in her career, Miki Ando had quad Salchow, 3Lutz-3Loop, and a 3Flip from the correct edge (to say nothing of her 2A-3T, Salchow, and Loop); Mao Asada at various points in her career has had 3A, 3A-2T, a real 3Lutz (for all of 2 competitions in 2008 :laugh:), 3F-3T, and 3F-3Lo. A 2A-3T, gobsmackingly beautiful or not, is hardly "most difficult." It is actually the easiest -3T combination being done these days (and the one everyone and their mother is doing). Also, considering the absurd number of points both Yuna and Mirai gained in Vancouver for doing 3 double Axels, the rule change limiting the number of double Axels was sorely needed.

The base value of her jump layout is about as high as she can make it without doing the 3lo, and given the aforementioned limitations on the 2a. Having said that, I will take issue with your objection on more fundamental ground: the "difficulty" of a jump layout is not only a function of the base value, but also of the achievable GOE. There are some who make a fetish of "base value", and, indeed, attempt to persuade people that BV and "difficulty" are equivalent terms. Are we to understand that a jump with, say, +3 GOE characteristics (as opposed to 0 or negative GOE) is not significantly more difficult to execute successfully? When one thinks about it, the absurdity of such a proposition should be plain to see.

Furthermore, I argue that the difficulty of a jump layout must be measured by what can actually be successfully executed, not by what is "planned" or attempted in a half-baked way. Therefore, on a basis of comprehensive technical difficulty in jumps (BV + GOE on jumps ratified), I maintain that Yuna's layout is more difficult, and not by a little, than that of any other skater.
Do you know why I care much less about GOE than the achieved BV? Because of the way Yuna was scored at CoR 2007 in comparison to how she was scored in Vancouver. The niggardly judging in 2007-08 meant that Yuna scored 6 points less in TES for a 7 triple program than she did for her Vancouver FS when the only "mistakes" she made in the former were a scratchy 3Lz and an omitted -2Lo. Don't try and tell me that Yuna's technical elements in Vancouver were so superior to how they were in her 2007 state, because they weren't. While certain bullets in GOE such as entry/exit, air position, etc. are part of difficulty, counting GOE as difficulty is silly (absurd, in fact) as it is obviously easier to get +GOE when one does 3 double Axels and GOE fluctuates so much between competitions. Just look at the difference in the GOE for Yuna's solo 3Salchow at 2011 (+0.8) and 2013 (+1.4) Worlds.

Therefore, I say that BV is a better measure of difficulty than BV+GOE. BV does not account for difficult entry/exit, unusual air position, etc. but it is still much more objective than GOE.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Compared to most top skaters of her era Yu Na is near the top in difficulty. She can do both triple lutz-triple toe and triple flutz-triple toe easily and has done them both cleanly many times (although the rules of COP made it hard for her to do both in one program even before the changes, and now impossible), while most of the top skaters of this era never even had a single consistent 3-3. I cant think of a skater in history who could do some of the hardest 3-3s as easily, well, and consistently as her in fact. Even Midori Ito, the best jumper ever, only consistently did the 3 toe-3 toe, the easiest triple-triple there is. One year she had the triple lutz-triple toe planned and managed it only once. Only compared to Asada does she fall behind some in difficulty, but then Mao arguably reaches and keeps trying programs she has little to no hope of doing cleanly (to her credit in her youth she managed insane content cleanly a number of times, but not recently). Has Yu Na in her career lacked in difficultly compared to Kostner, Rochette, Ando (who stopped doing 3-3s other than an UR 3-3 in the SP), Wagner, Leonova, Suzuki, and every other top skater of this era you can think of. Of course not, she is usually above all those. I have no idea what top skaters you are thinking of, are you are thinking only of now, where it is possible in the LP more than before are above her in base value with the rule changes which hurt Kim more than anyone, and more women doing 7 triples and atleast one 3-3 than ever before, but that would not be reflective of her career.

I would add high quality and big jumps with great run out should be added to the very good list of 6 that one gave, which would make it 7.
I would agree that Yuna is near the top or at the top in difficulty consistently accomplished, and at the top in difficulty she has maintained consistently throughout the length of her career. She certainly fulfills most of the criteria and the ones she doesn't fulfill (e.g. "can't think of another person who does something better") are utterly unreachable anyway.

ROTFL she had the quad salchow for about 2 months. She only landed 1 clean one in competition. Her 3 lutz-3 loop was gone forever (poor attempts of one which never got ratified again aside) after age 20 as well. Her big jump became the double axel-triple toe, which never at any point became Kim`s biggest combination.
I was responding to having all the jumps at various points in her career. Her 3Lutz-3Loop actually stayed a bit longer (almost into 2009) than you give her credit for - keeping that combination for 5 years as a senior is not bad.

As for Kim`s GOE going up from 2007 to 2010, GOE has become elevated over time for all the skaters. As has PCS, and everything else.
Not just 2007-2010, there's also 2011 vs 2013 Worlds and scoring of non-clean vs. clean performances. I have no issue with marking up the numbers when she has a perfect FS and deserves the win, but I do take issue with using GOE as a measure of difficulty.
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I disagree that BV determines difficulty. If we were to do so, how are we ever going to compare men's difficulty?
These days, most men do 4T(or 4T+3T), 3A, and solo triple jump(+3T if combo wasn't used) in their SP.
If you look at in this situation, difficulty must be based on GOE because the base value would be similar in most men, and there would be no way to compare them.
Hence why they should try to earn as much GOEs as possible, and that means more effortless skating, more interesting entries and exits, more movements, more transitions, and etc.
Effortless and beautifully executed program should be more difficult because it requires more than just "jumping."
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
I disagree that BV determines difficulty. If we were to do so, how are we ever going to compare men's difficulty?
These days, most men do 4T(or 4T+3T), 3A, and solo triple jump(+3T if combo wasn't used) in their SP.
If you look at in this situation, difficulty must be based on GOE because the base value would be similar in most men, and there would be no way to compare them.
Hence why they should try to earn as much GOEs as possible, and that means more effortless skating, more interesting entries and exits, more movements, more transitions, and etc.
Effortless and beautifully executed program should be more difficult because it requires more than just "jumping."
BV is not perfect but looking at GOE doesn't help. Looking at the jumps accomplished does - like Chan's 4T-3T and 3Lutz vs. Hanyu's 4T and 3Lutz-3Toe.

Well I think jumps you were able to do over your entire career are alot more important than a jump you could do for 1 season only as a junior skater (Miki`s quad salchow), a jump combination you couldnt do most of your contending years (Miki`s 3 lutz-3 toe, and btw I dont recall her getting any ratified in the 2008-2009 season but if you can show me a protocal where she did I will take that back).
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn08/gpchn08_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

I understood that criterion as "being the best in every aspect" but if it only means being the best at a certain thing, then sure.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Miki was doing her combos in the wrong time!

Her 3lutz-3loop combo at the 2009 W was worth 6.3 points.
Joannie's 3lutz-2t combo was worth 7.3 points.

This gave Joannie the silver over Miki. So wrong in so many way.

Miki's quad Sal at the 2008 GPF (very good attempt) got her 2.9 points.

Had she compete in this era where < is 70% of the jump, and your GOE doesn't have to be negative, she would be dominating the field easily.

Miki was doing 3lutz-3loop regularly for at least 8 years when the system punished her hard for it.
This girl has all the jumps, hard combo. If she really went for it during this quad, she would be the most dominated skater leading up to Sochi. She beat Yuna when both had 5 triples. She could win in 2012 and put real pressure on Yuna in 2013 as well.

Wrong place wrong time for Miki.

I don't think she has everything, but her jumping ability is above and beyond even Yuna. Early CoP killed her chance earlier in her career. Life event killed her chance the last few years.
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
At various points in her career, Miki Ando had quad Salchow, 3Lutz-3Loop, and a 3Flip from the correct edge (to say nothing of her 2A-3T, Salchow, and Loop); Mao Asada at various points in her career has had 3A, 3A-2T, a real 3Lutz (for all of 2 competitions in 2008 :laugh:), 3F-3T, and 3F-3Lo. A 2A-3T, gobsmackingly beautiful or not, is hardly "most difficult." It is actually the easiest -3T combination being done these days (and the one everyone and their mother is doing). Also, considering the absurd number of points both Yuna and Mirai gained in Vancouver for doing 3 double Axels, the rule change limiting the number of double Axels was sorely needed.
No one said anything about the 2a-3t being, of itself, the most difficult combination. But Yuna was able to do a 2a-3t along with her 3lz-3t at Vancouver, which was incrementally accretive to her score compared to, say, her current layout. That, I believe, is the point of "difficulty", at the end of the day. A high-scoring 3-3 in conjunction with a 2a-3t is still the standard for difficulty in the ladies competition.

Miki has certainly landed the quad sal and etc. and Mao has tried the 3a and etc. for years, and again no one is saying different. I do not mind in the least if you were to demand that both these skaters be allowed to check off the "difficulty" criteria. I will even concede, for the sake of argument, Mao having had a lutz once upon a time. I personally feel that giving up a jump because of physical/health considerations, and not being able to maintain one because of technical issues, are two different things, but I won't nitpick.

However, the quad/3a do not represent the generally accepted standard of difficulty for the ladies. They are, IMO, beyond the current physiological envelope, that is to say, they cannot form the basis of layouts that ladies skaters can aspire to at this juncture. This is why Miki only landed the quad once in competition, and Mao's issues in executing the 3a are so chronic that a double-footed landing is cause for celebration and is now almost the new "clean". By your brand of argument, maybe these jumps should be not allowed because the absurd number of points one can gain from unsuccessful attempts only encourage the misguided pursuit of badly executed jumps, when the goal should be beautifully executed ones.

I am being slightly satirical. I think skaters should be able to attempt what they want (including 3 2As). But by the same token, the criteria for a "complete" skater should not be based on jumps that no competitor in the discipline can do with satisfying hygiene or regularity. I repeat: a high-scoring 3-3 and a 2a-3t is the current standard, which Yuna met in Vancouver.

Whether or not your argument that 3 2As are "absurd" has a basis beyond a dissatisfaction with the competitive results can be argued, I suppose. What I find absurd in a Kafka-esque sort of way is that the rule is changed immediately after Vancouver, driven, I believe, by the scale of Yuna's victory, and then Yuna is accused of no longer meeting the requisite standards for difficulty!

Do you know why I care much less about GOE than the achieved BV? Because of the way Yuna was scored at CoR 2007 in comparison to how she was scored in Vancouver. The niggardly judging in 2007-08 meant that Yuna scored 6 points less in TES for a 7 triple program than she did for her Vancouver FS when the only "mistakes" she made in the former were a scratchy 3Lz and an omitted -2Lo. Don't try and tell me that Yuna's technical elements in Vancouver were so superior to how they were in her 2007 state, because they weren't. While certain bullets in GOE such as entry/exit, air position, etc. are part of difficulty, counting GOE as difficulty is silly (absurd, in fact) as it is obviously easier to get +GOE when one does 3 double Axels and GOE fluctuates so much between competitions. Just look at the difference in the GOE for Yuna's solo 3Salchow at 2011 (+0.8) and 2013 (+1.4) Worlds.

Therefore, I say that BV is a better measure of difficulty than BV+GOE. BV does not account for difficult entry/exit, unusual air position, etc. but it is still much more objective than GOE.
Do you know why I believe this point to be moot? Because:

1) The strictness/laxity with which jumps are evaluated in awarding BV has also been uneven over time, when one looks over the past two cycles.

2) For the purpose of comparing scores across time, the issue of uniformity in judging is relevant. For the purpose of comparing skaters who are contemporaries, it is how they were judged relative to each other (and the field) that is more important.

3) You are making a very narrow technical argument, while evading the more basic point. To go back to the fundamental issue, do you not agree that a jump with high GOE characteristics is more difficult than a jump with low or negative GOE characteristics? If this is so, then ignoring GOE entirely on the basis of measurement issues seems unjustifiably cavalier, a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Thus, I still believe that BV+GOE, and for jumps achieved, is the right measure of "difficulty".
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Oh ok, well nobody can ever be the best at every aspect. That would be a crazy fantasy wish (actually I wouldnt want it, how incredibly boring competitions and the sport would be in that case). I use an example from say swimming. Michael Phelps is by far the greatest swimmer ever, probably the greatest Olympian ever, and in fact he is at a height of greatness in his sport that cant be even approached by any figure skater ever in the sport of figure skating (not even Torvill & Dean or Gordeeva & Grinkov), but even at the height of his powers he was only the best at the 200 and 400 individual medal, the 100 and 200 fly (and barely at the 100 fly), and the 200 free. Considering all the events included in a World Championships (some not in an Olympics) that would only make him the best at 5 of the 17 events (excluding the Open water events).

I interpreted the criteria as being good at everything, and being the best at something.

Anyway figure skating is not just about breaking down every aspect and picking an order. It is about being unique, different, special (in ways that cant be quantified as better or worse accurately) and also how the whole package comes together, not always the sum of the parts.

I agree (though the thread topic was whether there could be a skater who has everything, and on that basis , the answer is no). But using the criteria you suggest, I pick Michelle Kwan. She had the whole package.
 
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