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Thread: Fair judging at Russian Nationals?

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    Fair judging at Russian Nationals?

    Well.
    I guess that title should remain accurate for much of the discussion going on in the next days...

    We can discuss both the judging (marking!!!) at those Nationals as well as the effect the placement actually has on selecting skaters for the upcoming big events...

    So, what happened at the 2012-2013 Nationals?
    a) They sent Kovtun (5th at Nationals) to the Europeans and not Menshov (3rd). Several russian athletes (incl. Trankov) signed a petition that Menshov should be sent. Didn't change a thing.
    b) When Plushenko bailed out of Worlds, who did they send? Not Voronov (2nd), not Menshov (3rd), not Gachinski (4th), Yup, Kovtun again.
    So I'm sad for the Russians for only having 1 spot, but I'd say it was mainly Plushenko's fault for not going to the HUGELY IMPORTANT EVENT where Russia gets their spots for Sochi, right after kicking everybody's behind at Europeans. He just assumed that he'd get the single spot (I'm afraid he'll be right, but...) that's why I'm so hoping for Kovtun to beat him and get the spot. Kovtun was put in a difficult position by his federation and by Plushenko last year when he wasn't ready for it. The GPs this far have shown that he can be ready - the GP Final that he isn't automatically.
    I hope he makes it.

    What happened at the 2011-2012 Nationals?
    They gave Bazarova/Larionov an unbelievable, ridiculously massive boost in scores in what was pretty much a bad performance during their Nationals LP. Stolbova/Klimov had an amazing skate (only 2Twist) and got massively held back. Weird, it's almost as if THE RUSSIAN FS FEDERATION THOUGHT THAT THE RESULT AT NATIONALS MATTERS? lol
    Stolbova/Klimov got 123.67 for this
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_qJq2cvOYc[/url]
    and Bazarova/Larionov got 126.03... for... that:
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kveBkeaOtw[/url]

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    What is this a bash Plushenko thread for not going to 2013 worlds? Like it would have been better for him to do nothing until worlds and just get byes from Russian nationals and byes from Euros and just coast on his name rather than do Russian Nationals and Euros? He will skip the GP season without hesitation but Russian nationals and Euros? Not for a decade! Plushenko didn't even really bail out of 2013 worlds as he was never assigned and it was never a guarantee. And Kovtun was horrible and bombed and that's all his fault. And it was the Russian federations fault for ignoring a skating really well Menshov! They actually believed Kovtun's 4:00 FS at JGPF was preparation for a 4:30 worlds performance.

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    Peace, man!
    I have huge respect for what Plushenko has achieved in the past.
    But whoever made the call, yes, I think that the Worlds 1 year before the Olympics at home should have been the number one priority. Plushenko would at least have gotten a second spot. If he was really badly injured, then no blame on him.
    If he chose not to go as a strategic move as he felt "ok, but not great" and didn't want to have a medium result at worlds, then I believe it wasn't a good decision not to go. All I'm saying.

    Like it would have been better for him to do nothing until worlds and just get byes from Russian nationals and byes from Euros and just coast on his name rather than do Russian Nationals and Euros? He will skip the GP season without hesitation but Russian nationals and Euros? Not for a decade!
    Oh, and skaters don't usually pick one competition a season only. Plushenko could have gone to Nationals, then Euros, then Worlds.

    But no worries, there's Russian Nationals, and then 3 men will go to the Europeans. Kovtun would have to be flawless at both events and beat Plushenko by a clear margin to be considered.
    Still, I'm rooting for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Peace, man!
    I have huge respect for what Plushenko has achieved in the past.
    But whoever made the call, yes, I think that the Worlds 1 year before the Olympics at home should have been the number one priority. Plushenko would at least have gotten a second spot. If he was really badly injured, then no blame on him.
    If he chose not to go as a strategic move as he felt "ok, but not great" and didn't want to have a medium result at worlds, then I believe it wasn't a good decision not to go. All I'm saying.


    Oh, and skaters don't usually pick one competition a season only. Plushenko could have gone to Nationals, then Euros, then Worlds.

    But no worries, there's Russian Nationals, and then 3 men will go to the Europeans. Kovtun would have to be flawless at both events and beat Plushenko by a clear margin to be considered.
    Still, I'm rooting for him.
    The reason he hasn't been two GP and then nationals Euros worlds has been due to health reasons. He has been badly injured and needing surgery for a couple of seasons now. He had two major surgeries so decided not to do all competitions and not really drive himself into the ground. That's why he hasn't done worlds and never committed to a worlds. Fear of a bad result is not a factor. Sochi is the motivator. Getting there is the main reason for continuation. He just couldn't go to worlds in 2013. It wasn't possible. The only way it would have been possible was for him to have sat out the entire season and not anything until worlds but train for it. That's just guessing and assuming the wear and tear of Russian nationals was too much that season on the disc that needed replacement. But that didn't matter because Russia saw Kovtun win so much on the JGPF and felt he was good enough for 2 spots. He wasn't even close. He had the lowest TES in the SP of those who made the FS! The skater who went has all responsibility not the one who didn't because he couldn't.

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    Plushy had spinal disc replacement surgery early this year.

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    its was not his fault
    Plushenko got injured that was why he withdrew from Euros

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    So I'm sad for the Russians for only having 1 spot, but I'd say it was mainly Plushenko's fault for not going to the HUGELY IMPORTANT EVENT where Russia gets their spots for Sochi, right after kicking everybody's behind at Europeans.

    OMG!
    look at this! [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5hQlrbKNdU[/url] YESSSS! this is Plushenko's fault ...this is Plushy's surgery you are ridiculous..

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    Plushenko's PCS .

    Well the scores in general suffer from crazy inflation but those in particular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    So I'm sad for the Russians for only having 1 spot, but I'd say it was mainly Plushenko's fault for not going to the HUGELY IMPORTANT EVENT where Russia gets their spots for Sochi, right after kicking everybody's behind at Europeans.
    What?

    Plushenko withdrew after the SP at 2013 Euros; he was badly injured (and in fact, before Worlds ever took place, had already gone under the knife). There was no way he could have gone to Worlds. The guy had a DISC REPLACEMENT IN HIS SPINE!

    If you want to blame a skater, blame Kovtun, and give him the blame he never got after that, but that Gachinski still suffers with. Blame Farris for getting sick before the JGPF long program and not taking the fight to Kovtun there, thus over-inflating everyone's opinion of Kovtun.

    If you want to blame an official, you can blame Tarasova, for sacrificing Russia's Olympic spots for her own egotistical dramas. If you want to blame an official, blame the RFSF, for being stupid enough to follow every command Tarasova laid at their feet and losing the spots.

    But do not blame Plushy. Do not ever, ever, EVER blame Plushy. It was not his fault. It was not his choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Plushenko withdrew after the SP at 2013 Euros; he was badly injured (and in fact, before Worlds ever took place, had already gone under the knife). There was no way he could have gone to Worlds. The guy had a DISC REPLACEMENT IN HIS SPINE!
    The world of athletes is filled with people who postponed that exact surgery because they absolutely wanted to compete at a particular event.
    This is not like an operation you have after you just got shot - which has to happen, let's say, pretty soon after the event.
    He didn't "get injured" at the Europeans, but his pain he had for a long time, and which he had been working through, got worse.
    I can't know for sure that he could not skate properly, or how big the risk was for him to harm his spine more by participating at the 2013 Worlds to get 2 spots for his federation for the Olympics at home. But neither can you.
    Plushenko, his coach, his closest family and friends, and the doctors do. Given the circumstances, of course he'll say it was vital to have the surgery before Worlds. Even if it was just a matter of priorities.

    I did express an opinion based on an article I read last year about that exact subject, and theories about how bad his spine really was, and whether or not he could just have gotten over the acute pain at Europeans after a few days. I'm afraid I can't make out where that was.
    Maybe I'm wrong. As I already wrote earlier,
    If he was really badly injured, then no blame on him.
    Unless you have access to his private journal, you don't know more than me on this.

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    Actually he said he did feel a new intense pain during the euros sp and fell on 3a. So whatever articles that were written about him faking or whatever are nonsense. Kovtun was widely believed by the federation to be capable. They knew plushenko had spinal disc replacement surgery and didn't have a problem with sending kovtun. Kovtun bombed! He's the one whose combo in the short was 3t-1t. That was something he did without needing a spinal disc replacement! After he did 3t he chose to do 1t!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Kovtun was widely believed by the federation to be capable.
    I still wished they'd sent one of the guys who beat him at nationals.

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    95 PCS for a skate with 4 errors. Fair judging, indeed!

    Lol at B/S and I/K getting 55+ PCS.

    I suppose if Julia/Sot bombs tomorrow she'll get 75+ PCS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    95 PCS for a skate with 4 errors. Fair judging, indeed!

    Lol at B/S and I/K getting 55+ PCS.

    I suppose if Julia/Sot bombs tomorrow she'll get 75+ PCS.

    iits called: Chanadian Nationals Inflation Inc.

    come back here when Chan gets over 100+ in PCS
    and of course the Glorious Osmond with her butt on the ice scoring a 70 in SP and 150 LP ala Yuna Kim

    dont get me started with D/R laughable scores

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post

    iits called: Chanadian Nationals Inflation Inc.

    come back here when Chan gets over 100+ in PCS
    and of course the Glorious Osmond with her butt on the ice scoring a 70 in SP and 150 LP ala Yuna Kim

    dont get me started with D/R laughable scores
    Chan hasn't ever gotten 100+ PCS, nor is that even possible. And if he clears 94+ it certainly won't be with 4 errors like Dai and Plu. And gotta love Hanyu scoring above 94 PCS after so-called "wiping his butt on the ice", but since you love Yuzu I'm sure you will overlook that.

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