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Thread: Russian Dominance coming soon

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    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Russian Dominance coming soon

    I am so ready for it. I predict that from now until next Olympics they will have a lady at every world podium. The question ,will national interest increase for the sport because looking at the audience during nationals it does not compare to crowd the Japanese skaters can bring to an event.

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    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    I am so ready for it. I predict that from now until next Olympics they will have a lady at every world podium. The question ,will national interest increase for the sport because looking at the audience during nationals it does not compare to crowd the Japanese skaters can bring to an event.
    Agreed.

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    We'll see. Not saying it won't happen, but I'm not ready to predict it. Maybe a lady on every World podium, but that's not dominance to me.

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    I would say dominance arrives when it's two people or more battling to world gold. Russia men with plushenko yagudin and American ladies yamaguchi Harding Kerrigan podium. But even it gets to that level of extreme dominance having a lady or ladies in a position to win several medals it reflects strong depth.

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    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I would say dominance arrives when it's two people or more battling to world gold. Russia men with plushenko yagudin and American ladies yamaguchi Harding Kerrigan podium. But even it gets to that level of extreme dominance having a lady or ladies in a position to win several medals it reflects strong depth.
    Agree. I see that happening. Elena and Julia, Adelina and now even Anna is consider a contender

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    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Dave Lease at TSL, re-capping the Russian Nationals had a very interesting off-the-cuff take on the Russians. I could be mistaken but essentially he infers they utilize a machine-like approach that is designed to result in ALWAYS having some girl peaking at the right time; sort of like Adelina this year, Julia next year, Alexandra the following year, etc. In other words rather than the Canadian "own the podium" approach whereby money and resources get funneled into things that advance training and development of athletes the Russians, I'm assuming, go instead with a strategy relying on an overwhelming NUMBERS of athletes whereby when or if one drops the baton there is another right behind her to pick it up. If true (and I admit I could be completely misinterpreting this) it sounds a little cavalier to me and I would hope the Russian Federation isn't treating its girls like some sort of disposable commodity. I won't take offense if somebody corrects me.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    Dave Lease at TSL, re-capping the Russian Nationals had a very interesting off-the-cuff take on the Russians. I could be mistaken but essentially he infers they utilize a machine-like approach that is designed to result in ALWAYS having some girl peaking at the right time; sort of like Adelina this year, Julia next year, Alexandra the following year, etc. In other words rather than the Canadian "own the podium" approach whereby money and resources get funneled into things that advance training and development of athletes the Russians, I'm assuming, go instead with a strategy relying on an overwhelming NUMBERS of athletes whereby when or if one drops the baton there is another right behind her to pick it up. If true (and I admit I could be completely misinterpreting this) it sounds a little cavalier to me and I would hope the Russian Federation isn't treating its girls like some sort of disposable commodity. I won't take offense if somebody corrects me.
    If that's the case, why only in the ladies? Why isn't there the same approach for men or dance or even their pairs, where they long dominated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    If true (and I admit I could be completely misinterpreting this) it sounds a little cavalier to me and I would hope the Russian Federation isn't treating its girls like some sort of disposable commodity. I won't take offense if somebody corrects me.
    The opposite of this would be to prop up certain athletes when they struggle, which I don't agree with because then it becomes more of a political game rather than a merit game.

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    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    If that's the case, why only in the ladies? Why isn't there the same approach for men or dance or even their pairs, where they long dominated?
    Perhaps there is. I don't know. If someone has insight I would really like to know. I had always assumed all countries approach these competitions basically the same way but then I am reminded how successful the Soviets and East Germans always were in past years. I am not saying the Russians are THAT ruthless but I am curious just what their strategy is. I am completely ignorant on this topic. If you have any insight, share, please.

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    Miserere Nobis
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    Right now, the only Russian senior lady I'm excited to watch develop is Adelina. She's a beautiful skater. If she could just land the jumps, she'd almost certainly be on every World podium (except 2014) until the 2018 Olympics.

    Julia and Elena are still too young to start carving them places on the 2015, 2016, and 2017 Worlds podiums. Puberty and a loss of confidence can do a lot to a developing skater (see Liza, Mirai, and now Zijun) -- they haven't been hit with the worst of the body changes yet. If they manage to maintain their jumps and consistency, I can see them contributing to the Russian dominance. As for Anna P ... no. Something about her skating just doesn't work for me. And once Elena gains eligibility for senior ISU events, Anna will probably never make a World team.

    RABID, I've gotten that impression from the Russian fed too. They seem more concerned about quantity than quality, although there is certainly a plethora of talent within the young Russian ranks. Seriously, how did Sakhanovich, Medvedeva, and Proklova all appear at once?!

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    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The opposite of this would be to prop up certain athletes when they struggle, which I don't agree with because then it becomes more of a political game rather than a merit game.
    That's kind of an ironic statement when you consider what else David had to say (I'm a little bit embarrassed to be parroting here but he does seem insightful):
    "....Sotnikova’s program components scores were at a ridiculous level, but it was to be expected. (It is not a singular nation’s problem—regardless of what people will tell you.) Inflated marks across the board are not a real issue. Sotnikova did appear to be the beneficiary of a favorable political situation. One need not forget that Sotnikova is partially responsible for the Russians only being able to send two ladies to Sochi.....
    She is certainly a formidable skater, but she is also someone who has continued to benefit immensely from Elena Buianova’s (nee Vodorezova) alignment with Tatiana Tarasova. ....."
    I'm so confused...

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    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
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    the most of their good female skaters are little girls, and they are really good but I am just expecting that of 9 good kids, at least Russia will have one very good lady skater when they grown up. And yes, it was so sad to watch the empty arena at nationals, I mean, they will have Olymp games in one month!!!, they doesn´t look excited at all .

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    The reason the Soviets and East Germans were so successful was a little word called Steroids. That and having the government being involved in the training and financial support of their athletes compared to US athletes who were on there own.

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    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    If that's the case, why only in the ladies?
    I think they acknowledge the fact that the development of girls and boys is completely different.
    The girls usually have bodies that are best designed to consistently succeed at difficult jumps when they're around 13. After that, there's puberty that can wreak havoc, and this cannot be controlled completely.
    Just watch Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, who Mishin called "the only OGM chance for Russia" for years and then her body started changing and her performance was gone.
    Tara Lipinski won the 1997 WC and the 1998 OGM as a little girl and then immediately retired before she hit puberty. She would have had to learn completely new jumps to go with her new body, but deemed it would have been too hard and she'd have lost her aura of perfection if people had seen her in the following years struggling to complete all but 2 different triples.
    The Russian Federation certainly doesn't stand in the way of a girl becoming the next big thing, but they don't rely on it that much, since having a little girl do all kinds of triples on that very day with a jumping technique that will become obsolete when she grows into a woman brings the better results.
    That wasn't the case back then with the 6.0 system since judges just wouldn't award those little girls with the big marks for artistic impression to challenge the grown women. That changed gradually, but imo most notably with Tara Lipinski who got 5.9s in international competitions. It was justified to give her good marks in the 2nd mark since she was flawless and polished, but it changed the approach of many federations as to how to get the best result in the future: let the girl skate with a technique that only works before puberty, and when she does hit puberty, she can retire or become a second row skater.
    Sad, but true.

    The men, on the other hand, have a much more reliable development, so investing in a boy with potential is more likely to be successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    That's kind of an ironic statement when you consider what else David had to say (I'm a little bit embarrassed to be parroting here but he does seem insightful):
    "....Sotnikova’s program components scores were at a ridiculous level, but it was to be expected. (It is not a singular nation’s problem—regardless of what people will tell you.) Inflated marks across the board are not a real issue. Sotnikova did appear to be the beneficiary of a favorable political situation. One need not forget that Sotnikova is partially responsible for the Russians only being able to send two ladies to Sochi.....
    She is certainly a formidable skater, but she is also someone who has continued to benefit immensely from Elena Buianova’s (nee Vodorezova) alignment with Tatiana Tarasova. ....."
    I'm so confused...
    The decision between Adelina and Julia was close but both were miles ahead of everyone else. I would say Adelina was undermarked last year against Liza at Nationals; IIRC they received virtually the same PCS in their SPs. So I think any benefit is a result of her relatively strong results this year.

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