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Thread: Can Plushenko close the gap on Kovtun?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    The SP in the team event is more important than the LP. Plushenko deservedly won that segment at Nationals and has the verrrry long track record of delivering. He's really a better choice than Kovtun.
    It's not about his track record. It's about what he can deliver now, and right now Kovtun is a better choice.

    Winning an SP isn't enough. And he cannot withdraw after the SP and even if he were able to it would be unsportsmanlike to bend the rules. I mean, Russia only has one men's spot but then they get 2 men's medalists in the team event? Or do each of them get half a medal?

  2. #17
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    He's really a better choice than Kovtun.
    If the Russian Federation plan on adhering to the rules (ie no fake injury), they need to pick the best man for the job.
    The job is to be able to deliver 4 programmes within 8 days: Team Men's SP on Feb 6th to Men's Single LP on Feb 14th.
    If they had wanted to use Plushy in the team event only, or even in the team event's SP only, they'd have needed 2 men qualified.

    With the situation being what it is, unless some underhand deal is made to allow them to still do exactly that, they can't think Plushy is their best bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's not about his track record. It's about what he can deliver now, and right now Kovtun is a better choice.

    Winning an SP isn't enough. And he cannot withdraw after the SP and even if he were able to it would be unsportsmanlike to bend the rules. I mean, Russia only has one men's spot but then they get 2 men's medalists in the team event?
    His point is that doing well in the SP is more important than doing well in the LP in the team event and, well, he's right: in the SP you can score between 1 and 10 points while in the LP you can score between 6 and 10 points.

    There is a case for selecting Plushenko over Kovtun if you buy into the following two points: Plushenko is likely to do better in the SP than Kovtun and neither Plushenko or Kovtun is likely to win an individual medal.

    I don't personally believe Plushenko should be selected over Kovtun but I see the argument if you assume Plushenko has the better short program.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    If they had wanted to use Plushy in the team event only, or even in the team event's SP only, they'd have needed 2 men qualified.
    Exactly. And didn't Plushenko previously say he would only compete in Sochi if he felt he could do both the team and individual?

    I guess that was before Kovtun surpassed him as Russia's #1 man.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    The SP in the team event is more important than the LP. Plushenko deservedly won that segment at Nationals and has the verrrry long track record of delivering. He's really a better choice than Kovtun.
    Also, the LP is more important as Russia will make the top 5 teams anyways. Not sure how the weighting of the final placement is though. Does the SP score contribute equally to the final placement?

  6. #21
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Can you stop commenting with fake authority on something you don't understand?

    The SP and LP are weighted equally, but since there are 10 entries in the SP, the chance to ruin your score there is far greater. Russia wants 3rd in the SP for their Singles Male, 2nd if Chan or Hanyu bombs. But, if Russia bombs the SP, then they could be losing to all of the Chinese, American, and French men. In the LP they won't go lower than 5th regardless, and if Italy makes the top 5 then they are guaranteed at least 4th in the LP.

  7. #22
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    If Kovtun had skated his COR skate SP then he would have beat Plushenko's Nationals SP score. Just as if Plushenko had skated his Volvo Cuo SP he wouldn't have beaten Kovtun's SP at Nationals.

  8. #23
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    That is the only time Kovtun has skated a great SP and, even if he skates like that at Olympics, he's still not beating Chan or Hanyu, so Russian doesn't gain anything from it anyway. Russia needs the person who is most likely to skate perfect with a Quad in the SP. That person is Plushenko.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    That is the only time Kovtun has skated a great SP and, even if he skates like that at Olympics, he's still not beating Chan or Hanyu, so Russian doesn't gain anything from it anyway. Russia needs the person who is most likely to skate perfect with a Quad in the SP. That person is Plushenko.
    Kovtun with 2 quads in his SP can certainly get good positioning. Kovtun will likely get a top 5 finish in the SP unless he bombs so it doesn't really matter if Plushenko is in there.

    With 2 quads a perfect Kovtun will score higher than a clean Plushenko with 1 quad. Let's bear in mind Kovtun has the higher personal best in the SP.

  10. #25
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    You really don't get it at all.

  11. #26
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Say, Blades of Passion and CanadianSkatingGuy, as both you seem to be competent figure skater, is there possibility to have on ice skate off between the two of you? I think it will be terrific success.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Also, the LP is more important as Russia will make the top 5 teams anyways. Not sure how the weighting of the final placement is though. Does the SP score contribute equally to the final placement?
    SP is actually more important. Each skater/pair will het between 1 (10th place) and 10 points (1st place) in the short and between 6 points (5th place) and 10 points in the long. The long program is not weighted any higher than the short program.

    So ya, in the team event the short program actually matters quite a bit more than the long program.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by spread beagle View Post
    Say, Blades of Passion and CanadianSkatingGuy, as both you seem to be competent figure skater, is there possibility to have on ice skate off between the two of you? I think it will be terrific success.
    Hah, I'm game. I'm actually vaguely interested in the extent to which BoP has been a competitive skater and I'm also curious as to how often he skates now, if at all. He seems to be quite knowledgeable about the sport as a whole and has his own, um, unique points of view when it comes to choreography, difficulty, jump rotations, etc. and has apparently taken ISU seminars (and denounced them). But some things he says actually make me question whether he himself skates frequently, ever competed at a novice/intermediate/junior/senior level, or has ever successfully choreographed for any skaters.

    For the record, I've gotten up to a junior competitive level freeskate (in Canada obvs) and have landed triples up to a 3F (not super consistent with my 3L and 3F mind you), when I was a teen. But at 17, I dropped it for about a decade with university and starting my career, and now that I can afford it again I skate twice a week, although I only have my doubles back (trying to regain my 3T/3S but I don't exactly have the youthful core/body I used to!). I'm actually working way more on my basics now (as I used to just like jumping, as a lot of freeskaters do With IJS and inspiring skaters like Chan and Kostner I'm way more motivated to improve my overall skating). Oh, and I'm terrible at Ice Dance and don't remember many nor do I wish to re-learn them.

    If not a skate off, at least a friendly skate with BoP. We can practice our flying counters!

  14. #29
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    ^^^ I will cheer from the seat. I volunteer to fly your Canadian flag for you, CSG!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    ^^^ I will cheer from the seat. I volunteer to fly your Canadian flag for you, CSG!
    Thanks spiky!

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