Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 117

Thread: Can Plushenko close the gap on Kovtun?

  1. #46
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,274
    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    Well, Kovtun didn't have to do the test skate last year against Menshov and Voronov. Of course, maybe the fed considered his Euros skate to "be" his test skate entry?
    The Russian Fed named that little comp the test skate for Worlds; Menshov, Voronov and Gachinski, who'd all beaten Kovtun at Nationals, dutifully showed; Kovtun didn't and the fed duly ignored the skateoff.

    So if Kovtun was not present at this test skate, and they chose Plushenko, I'd view it as karmic justice.

    But the best part of all that was what happened in front of the international judges at WTT; the RuFed must have been very relieved when Menshov got injured, because he was on track to well and truly beat their little golden boy.

  2. #47
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,489
    I like Menshov but it's hard to say if he would have beaten Kovtun at WTT even without the injury. Kovtun ended up with 221.79. Menshov's personal best is 223.72. Had Kovtun not fallen on his lutz, he would have easily been third ahead of Menshov after the SP. So it wasn't like it was a runway. Also in terms of standings WTT was a weird competition where supposedly higher ranked skaters like Asada, W/P, and Chan really bombed and skaters like Takahashi and Suzuki who bombed at Worlds did exceedingly well.

  3. #48
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,031
    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    An excerpt form TSL's recap on Russian Nationals:

    "If it seems arrogant or ridiculous that an athlete would get to choose whether or not they compete in the Olympic Games, it is. One must also understand that Evgeny Plushenko is not an ordinary athlete or member of Russian society. The Russian Skating Federation paid Plushenko 1 million euro to continue competing this season. They also covered his training and medical expenses. Vladimir Putin has gifted Plushenko numerous cars and apartments over the years. He was also named to Parliament and awarded numerous tax loopholes."

    I'm thinking this is why Plush has some pull on some decision making and why he can get away with a test skate instead of going to Euros. I wish Obama gifted US skaters like this
    OMG! This is so crazy!!! I read every articles on Plushenko and many other Russian articles. I never read it. Dave is so informed...

    What I know: after Turin Plushy got from Putin an apartman and a car.
    in this year: the Rus Fed covered his training and medical expenses, yes Plushy thanked to them.
    -"awarded numerous tax loopholes."-totally pointless, because in Russia the tax is 10%. This is the reason that the world famous French actor Gerard Depardieu has requested and received Russian citizenship in last year.
    -about the one million euros to continue competing. -also pointless. Plushy would earn more money if he doesn't compete, this is very reasonable and understandable if you have information on him, not only ignorant presumption.

  4. #49
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,031
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I kinda envy the million, the cars and the apartments!
    Do you want to know Plushy's income? We know from the Russian Forbes Magazine, probably I right remember
    2010- 1,3 million dollars
    2011-1,5 million dollars
    2012-1,7 million dollars
    2013-2,5 million dolars

    plus his wife's income.. that is cca 40 million rubles only in last year..that is interesting on their wedding a japanese Tv channel made a report, they paid for it 1,2 million Euros in 2009..so I hardly believe that TSL is right...

  5. #50
    Go Team Abbott snowflake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,550
    Thanks Plushyfan I really wondered about the TSL "facts". I always got the impression that it is Plushenko's own dream to compete at olympics in his homeland. And that competing is more worth to him than being a star in the opening ceremony, being a PR man or whatever in Sochi.

  6. #51
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Hah, I'm game. I'm actually vaguely interested in the extent to which BoP has been a competitive skater and I'm also curious as to how often he skates now, if at all. He seems to be quite knowledgeable about the sport as a whole and has his own, um, unique points of view when it comes to choreography, difficulty, jump rotations, etc. and has apparently taken ISU seminars (and denounced them). But some things he says actually make me question whether he himself skates frequently, ever competed at a novice/intermediate/junior/senior level, or has ever successfully choreographed for any skaters.

    For the record, I've gotten up to a junior competitive level freeskate (in Canada obvs) and have landed triples up to a 3F (not super consistent with my 3L and 3F mind you), when I was a teen. But at 17, I dropped it for about a decade with university and starting my career, and now that I can afford it again I skate twice a week, although I only have my doubles back (trying to regain my 3T/3S but I don't exactly have the youthful core/body I used to!). I'm actually working way more on my basics now (as I used to just like jumping, as a lot of freeskaters do With IJS and inspiring skaters like Chan and Kostner I'm way more motivated to improve my overall skating). Oh, and I'm terrible at Ice Dance and don't remember many nor do I wish to re-learn them.

    If not a skate off, at least a friendly skate with BoP. We can practice our flying counters!
    And we can assemble a team of GS members as judges and score BoP and offer him "constructive feedback" in return.

  7. #52
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    I agree. I understand his drive to compete and put himself through this. That is slot of money and a lot I pressure. Plush has nothing else to prove especially after Vancover. Russia's drive for medals really knows no bounds.
    I disagree. I think Russia still has a lot to prove still since 2006. Russia's men in figure skating has been dismal to say the least since the Torino Olympics. For a proud country with glorious history and an influential State, this is unacceptable. It is not just medals they are counting, more than anything else, it's the Gold medal. Many countries favor the number of Gold medals they won per Olympics, not just the medal count and Russia is one of them. Japan also uses a very similar standard.

    Plushenko was supposed to be their sure bet of restoring the honor and glory after what they perceived as a major injustice suffered at the Vancouver Olympics in North America (often regarded as hostile to Russians and Mishin has vowed to never visit again which he broke with Vancouver 2010).

    Now, that goal seems a little out of reach.

  8. #53
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    Russia is in no economic state to throw dollars around like that either. I think he wants to be done. Even with his surgery he has to be in a good amount of pain. I wonder if the Russian Fed will give him money and support him when he can't walk.
    Russia is doing fine economically. Granted,there is a great inequality and major differences between the rich and poor - the State's coffer is however filled with lots of oil and resources based money, thanks to the high prices & demand for them. The authoritarian nature of their government is such that there is no lack of funding for the pet projects of Putin and co. This can't be any clearer with the 2011 Worlds in Moscow scheduled and prepared in barely a month after the Tokyo Worlds was cancelled due to tsunami. There was not another country that could pull that off, not for the comparable level of venue, organization and money that was put into it. Putin was personally involved, therefore, securing a venue was never a problem. Try to do that in U.S. or Canada with less a month of notice is quite impossible - you can't just take a venue away from people who already booked to use it. In Russia, if the State demands it - you move, there is no if or but.

    As for taking care of accomplished athletes in USSR or Russia -that is never in doubt. One of the major reasons why USSR athletes were as great as they were is that they knew if they do well (aka. Olympic Gold Medal), the State will take care of them for life after they retire and no longer able to compete as top athletes. You have to understand, the Russian society is proud and compassionate towards their countrymen although the definition of countrymen and who qualified for such treatment is another topic, which we shall not discuss here as it gets political. Someone like Plushenko is worshiped like a hero in Russia. There is an expectation that the State will take care of him should he lose his mobility completely. Likewise, great Russian athletes with potential but who have yet secure their fame look to the State or sponsors for financing their career. When Maxim Trankov was in transition a few years ago, he had no money and had to live with relatives - he essentially auctioned himself off to the State in exchange for his potential. This is a very different model compared to North America.

  9. #54
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by bibi24 View Post
    how come u can do 3x 2T's, but not 3x 2A's? they are both doubles or no?
    There is a rule change after the 2010 seasons to specifically outlawed the use of more than two 2As. Only 2A was targeted, not the other doubles. This was mainly an issue with ladies rather than men, after Yu-Na Kim and to a lesser extent, Laura Lepisto demonstrated abusively how that could manipulate Free Skate scores instead of performing Triples. Not only that, the base value of 2A was lowered and their GOE, slashed as well. We can nickname this rule as the Kim-Lepisto rule, similar to the Zayak rule.

  10. #55
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Actually if Russia is spending 50 billion on Sochi is can spare a million for plushenko
    One million euro here is nothing. What Russian Fed and Putin is looking for is a godly Plushenko leading Russia to win the Team Gold in Sochi and then magically defeat all his evil rivals in the Singles event to make history with 2 Gold medals in one Olympic.

    Can you imagine the kind of publicity it will generate? Put it this way, when Canada won a historical number of 14 Gold medals in Vancouver, beating the previous record held by USSR at 13 - the amount of morale boost to the country's citizen and the politicians is astounding. Prior to that, the populace was skeptical of the "Own the Podium" program which cost a lot of money and politicians tried every way possible to distance themselves from it. 2 weeks after the Opening Ceremony, it went through a 180 - every politician, big or small, fall over each other to try to stake a claim or grab the microphone. The country received such a morale boost, it felt like 2010 was the year of Canada. Subsequently, the political party who governed the country as a minority government won the next Federal election with absolute majority.

    Sincerely, if Plushenko can pull of double Gold in Sochi, the morale boost to Russia and Putin will likely be greater than what the 14 Gold medals did to Canada.

  11. #56
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    Well, Kovtun didn't have to do the test skate last year against Menshov and Voronov. Of course, maybe the fed considered his Euros skate to "be" his test skate entry?

    That said, I would much prefer it if there was a "proper" test skate between Plushy and Kovtun with both participating.

    Most of all, I would have preferred it if Plushy skated at Euros. But I believe that ship has sailed...
    I am glad you finally came around to realize the withdraw from the 2013 Euros by Plushenko probably wasn't entirely due to his pre-existing conditions even though you were admant about it.

    Plushenko is back for glory and that means be the winner. Even a bronze medal would be seen as a failure.

    Taking part of 2014 Europeans for Plushenko makes no sense from a strategic point of view. Even by showering him with completely outrageous PCS marks at the Russian Nationals, Plushenko still failed to capture the National title - the outcome is even less certain at Europeans where judges traditionally give out very generous marks as though it's a national championship but the judges will be far less partial to any skater in particular. They are more likely to punish errors accordingly. This means the outcome of the competition will be less predictable and may not fit the narrative that the Russian Fed wants to see.

    If Plushenko is not there - there is no possibility he could be beaten by Kovtun again, which will allow the Russian Fed to paint whatever picture they want to see from the results, even if Kovtun wins a medal.

    The sad thing is, all these political maneuvers and scheming has already been foreseen and discussed even prior to the Russian Nationals where people in the GS forum already zoom in correctly on the shanigan of sudden medical withdraw after the Olympic team event. It begs to ask, why is Russia so predictable? Maybe because they have pull off this kind of stunt so often in the past that people have grown accustomed to it?

  12. #57
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Its not like he wanted to do 3 double axels and was ignoring the rules or didn't know them he was going for a 3A and it took a few tries and that resulted in a zayak rule violation.
    This is not a zayak rule violation, there is no jump combination involved here and the rule is specific to Double Axels, not to Triples/Quads or other doubles. This rule came about in 2010, whereas Zayak rule is about 30 years old.

  13. #58
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,222
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    One million euro here is nothing. What Russian Fed and Putin is looking for is a godly Plushenko leading Russia to win the Team Gold in Sochi and then magically defeat all his evil rivals in the Singles event to make history with 2 Gold medals in one Olympic.

    Can you imagine the kind of publicity it will generate? Put it this way, when Canada won a historical number of 14 Gold medals in Vancouver, beating the previous record held by USSR at 13 - the amount of morale boost to the country's citizen and the politicians is astounding. Prior to that, the populace was skeptical of the "Own the Podium" program which cost a lot of money and politicians tried every way possible to distance themselves from it. 2 weeks after the Opening Ceremony, it went through a 180 - every politician, big or small, fall over each other to try to stake a claim or grab the microphone. The country received such a morale boost, it felt like 2010 was the year of Canada. Subsequently, the political party who governed the country as a minority government won the next Federal election with absolute majority.

    Sincerely, if Plushenko can pull of double Gold in Sochi, the morale boost to Russia and Putin will likely be greater than what the 14 Gold medals did to Canada.
    Er......it's ludicrous to attribute Harper's success in the 2011 federal election to feel-good feelings caused by the 2010 Olympics. Harper was able to win a majority for the first time because of the utter collapse of the Liberal Party partly due to poor leadership on Ignatieff's part (plus a successful PR campaign by the Conservatives attacking Ignatieff). The Conservatives were able to take advantage by making huge gains in vote-rich Ontario after consolidating their hold onto the West. Plus, the economy/fiscal concerns was one of THE most important issues of the election, and perceptions (helped by constant promotion on the Conservatives' part) that Harper and the Conservatives played a strong role in successfully navigating Canada through the global financial crisis and that further political stability was needed post-recession greatly helped the Conservative party as well.

  14. #59
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,489
    Yeah, I think it was for the ladies in particular, because there would be skaters doing 3 and 4 double axels in lieu of triple attempts. It's kind of ironic that one of the men with the most consistent triple axels ever would end up losing points because of it.

  15. #60
    Medalist
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    80
    I just don't think Plushenko's body is up too it. I think the surgery took too much out of him and while he MAY be capable of getting the technical elements and speed back there just isn't enough time. We have never seen a slow and tentative and questionable Plushy but we do now and sadly time and his body is the main issue I think. It is unlikely he can win an individual medal right now; I think two years ago yes when he won euros but his surgery is major I believe compared to Evan or others. His best hope is a team but he might be a liability in the lp especially.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •