Can Plushenko close the gap on Kovtun? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Can Plushenko close the gap on Kovtun?

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I am glad you finally came around to realize the withdraw from the 2013 Euros by Plushenko probably wasn't entirely due to his pre-existing conditions even though you were admant about it.

No, I haven't. I'm now talking about the forthcoming Euros - 2014. Please learn to distinguish. If you are going to make up statements, and then reply to those made-up statemtns yourself, conversation with you is pointless. You are free to amuse yourself in whichever way takes you fancy, but kindly keep me out of it.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
No, I haven't. I'm now talking about the forthcoming Euros - 2014. Please learn to distinguish. If you are going to make up statements, and then reply to those made-up statemtns yourself, conversation with you is pointless. You are free to amuse yourself in whichever way takes you fancy, but kindly keep me out of it.

Such rude, impolite and defensive response is quite telling, I'll leave it at that.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Er......it's ludicrous to attribute Harper's success in the 2011 federal election to feel-good feelings caused by the 2010 Olympics. Harper was able to win a majority for the first time because of the utter collapse of the Liberal Party partly due to poor leadership on Ignatieff's part (plus a successful PR campaign by the Conservatives attacking Ignatieff). The Conservatives were able to take advantage by making huge gains in vote-rich Ontario after consolidating their hold onto the West. Plus, the economy/fiscal concerns was one of THE most important issues of the election, and perceptions (helped by constant promotion on the Conservatives' part) that Harper and the Conservatives played a strong role in successfully navigating Canada through the global financial crisis and that further political stability was needed post-recession greatly helped the Conservative party as well.

Nice thing about political science is no one holds absolute truth and everything is subject to interpretation.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Well, Kovtun didn't have to do the test skate last year against Menshov and Voronov. Of course, maybe the fed considered his Euros skate to "be" his test skate entry?

That said, I would much prefer it if there was a "proper" test skate between Plushy and Kovtun with both participating.

Most of all, I would have preferred it if Plushy skated at Euros. But I believe that ship has sailed...

It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
One could also say the exact same thing about anonymous posts on an Internet message board :laugh:

You really believe posting in IBB is "anonymous"? Well, I think you have a very different understanding of being anonymous than most people do in 2013 which may require some serious updates for you own good. I never shared who I am or what I do, yet people managed to track me down first on Ice Network, then here. Anonymity simply doesn't exist today so long as you are using internet with a browser and IP address. And I am positing with the full assumption that people know me or track me down if they want to. Therefore, I don't post things that will make me regret, you should probably do the same.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?

To be fair, such practice is hardly unique to Russia. The fact is most skating Federations closely monitor their top skaters with many such skates. They don't always call it test skate but they are often important in determining international assignments, perhaps more so than the national championship. The difference is country like U.S. or Canada typically select their World team with more structured process but the rest of the international assignments can be more or less a black box. Russia seems to take this more seriously, which is entirely within their right to do so - provided it was administered fairly. That's an open question but besides the point. In 2006, this was pretty much how Michelle Kwan secured her own spot for Torino Olympics so Russia is hardly alone. The fact they want to do this with Plushenko, a big star, is not surprising. If Russia had more than one spots for the Olympics, this would have been a non-issue. Most Figure Skating stars have at one point or the other in their career benefit from such outside-of-the-Nationals process, which is more common than most people realize.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?

I don't know. One indication would be if there were vids of the test skate of Menshov/Voronov/Gachinski last year. Does anyone know if there were?
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
You really believe posting in IBB is "anonymous"? Well, I think you have a very different understanding of being anonymous than most people do in 2013 which may require some serious updates for you own good. I never shared who I am or what I do, yet people managed to track me down first on Ice Network, then here. Anonymity simply doesn't exist today so long as you are using internet with a browser and IP address. And I am positing with the full assumption that people know me or track me down if they want to. Therefore, I don't post things that will make me regret, you should probably do the same.

As someone who has followed the various revelations made by Edward Snowden closely, trust me when I say that I am well aware of how online anonymity is a rather fragile concept. But on the other hand, it's much easier to preserve one's anonymity to people outside of the NSA and their ilk when one refrains from stating that they had attended, say, a competition like the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver in person, or when they don't post how they personally spoke to so-and-so skater about one topic or another, or when they don't leave an easy online trail by using the same username across multiple Internet forums.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Er......it's ludicrous to attribute Harper's success in the 2011 federal election to feel-good feelings caused by the 2010 Olympics. Harper was able to win a majority for the first time because of the utter collapse of the Liberal Party partly due to poor leadership on Ignatieff's part (plus a successful PR campaign by the Conservatives attacking Ignatieff). The Conservatives were able to take advantage by making huge gains in vote-rich Ontario after consolidating their hold onto the West. Plus, the economy/fiscal concerns was one of THE most important issues of the election, and perceptions (helped by constant promotion on the Conservatives' part) that Harper and the Conservatives played a strong role in successfully navigating Canada through the global financial crisis and that further political stability was needed post-recession greatly helped the Conservative party as well.

True tragedy. Canada survived the global financial crisis because of decisions by former Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien to say no to: 1. The Iraq war. As the retiring PM, he stood up to Bush and stayed by the will of the Canadians not to join in this war. 2. Canadian bank merger in order to join the world's major banks to play the financial scamming game on the world stage. Canadian banks and economy ended up avoiding the financial collapse. Canada also benefited from the shift of demands to natural resources. Harper took credit for the beneficial consequences of Chretien's courageous decisions and then squandered opportunities for prosperity by following American economic measures not appropriate for or in best interest of Canada.

Such is politics and people being easily misled. As well, there are cycles and the Conservative Party was able to capitalize on the Liberal Party's weak period.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
True tragedy. Canada survived the global financial crisis because of decisions by former Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien to say no to: 1. The Iraq war. As the retiring PM, he stood up to Bush and stayed by the will of the Canadians not to join in this war. 2. Canadian bank merger in order to join the world's major banks to play the financial scamming game on the world stage. Canadian banks and economy ended up avoiding the financial collapse. Canada also benefited from the shift of demands to natural resources. Harper took credit for the beneficial consequences of Chretien's courageous decisions and then squandered opportunities for prosperity by following American economic measures not appropriate for or in best interest of Canada.

Such is politics and people being easily misled. As well, there are cycles and the Conservative Party was able to capitalize on the Liberal Party's weak period.

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, Harper's PR machine was able to work its magic (as it did in the case of Iggy) and many Canadians were led to believe otherwise :'(
 

spikydurian

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, Harper's PR machine was able to work its magic (as it did in the case of Iggy) and many Canadians were led to believe otherwise :'(
Short term thinking and immediate gratification always prevail...... unfortunately.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?

I think will be this variation:
Agence France-Presse http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...ting-tough-choice-russia-after-plushenko-flop

and http://www.rg.ru/2013/12/29/konki-euro-site.html google translate

"Competitions championship team before the start of the Olympics - February 6th . The deadline for submitting an application to participate - 27 January . This will be taken into account and the results skaters Championships in Budapest , and athletic form , typed for the Olympics. The final squad for the Olympic Games will determine the Expert Group . It does not include any of the personal trainers of applicants to participate in the Olympics , and the members of the Panel will be responsible for the performance at the Olympics . The group is headed Federation president , head coach of the team , Alexander Gorshkov . Just a group of 11 people ."
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I am glad you finally came around to realize the withdraw from the 2013 Euros by Plushenko probably wasn't entirely due to his pre-existing conditions even though you were admant about it.

Plushenko had built a better form from 2010 to 2012 than what he did 2009-2010, at Euros 2012 at least he looked more effortless and light than in 2010. Probably cause he had had the muxury of time to work slower. Whatever it was and he withdrew after 20103 Euros, he did a disc replacement surgery 10 days later. I dont propose he should be rewarded for skating back after it, but it is nice to put the things in some perspective about his motives.
I have no clue what Russia is up to for Sochi, do they keep the drama for tickets draw? His name even made our news, and this is the most people know here from winter Olys athletes.
 
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Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
If Plushenko is not there (Europeans) - there is no possibility he could be beaten by Kovtun again, which will allow the Russian Fed to paint whatever picture they want to see from the results, even if Kovtun wins a medal.

:hb::hb::hb: Jackpot. I'd say Kovtun really needs to win a medal at Euros to have a shot at going to Sochi. :disapp: Strike that. At being the official one man sent to Sochi. (before Plushenko surprisingly WDs after the Team Event due to... you guessed it... injury :hb: )
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Plushenko had built a better form from 2010 to 2012 than what he did 2009-2010, at Euros 2012 at least he looked more effortless and light than in 2010. Probably cause he had had the muxury of time to work slower. Whatever it was and he withdrew after 20103 Euros, he did a disc replacement surgery 10 days later. I dont propose he should be rewarded for skating back after it, but it is nice to put the things in some perspective about his motives.
I have no clue what Russia is up to for Sochi, do they keep the drama for tickets draw? His name even made our news, and this is the most people know here from winter Olys athletes.

he did that surgery 6 days later 31 of january, they were so fast...
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
An excerpt form TSL's recap on Russian Nationals:

"If it seems arrogant or ridiculous that an athlete would get to choose whether or not they compete in the Olympic Games, it is. One must also understand that Evgeny Plushenko is not an ordinary athlete or member of Russian society. The Russian Skating Federation paid Plushenko 1 million euro to continue competing this season. They also covered his training and medical expenses. Vladimir Putin has gifted Plushenko numerous cars and apartments over the years. He was also named to Parliament and awarded numerous tax loopholes."

I'm thinking this is why Plush has some pull on some decision making and why he can get away with a test skate instead of going to Euros. I wish Obama gifted US skaters like this;)

once more
Plushenko News_Eng ‏@PlushenkoNews 3h

Because @SkatingLesson dont have enough guts to publish comments on their blog that denying their lies on Plushenko:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rv965g
 
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