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Thread: Can Plushenko close the gap on Kovtun?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I am glad you finally came around to realize the withdraw from the 2013 Euros by Plushenko probably wasn't entirely due to his pre-existing conditions even though you were admant about it.
    No, I haven't. I'm now talking about the forthcoming Euros - 2014. Please learn to distinguish. If you are going to make up statements, and then reply to those made-up statemtns yourself, conversation with you is pointless. You are free to amuse yourself in whichever way takes you fancy, but kindly keep me out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    No, I haven't. I'm now talking about the forthcoming Euros - 2014. Please learn to distinguish. If you are going to make up statements, and then reply to those made-up statemtns yourself, conversation with you is pointless. You are free to amuse yourself in whichever way takes you fancy, but kindly keep me out of it.
    Such rude, impolite and defensive response is quite telling, I'll leave it at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Er......it's ludicrous to attribute Harper's success in the 2011 federal election to feel-good feelings caused by the 2010 Olympics. Harper was able to win a majority for the first time because of the utter collapse of the Liberal Party partly due to poor leadership on Ignatieff's part (plus a successful PR campaign by the Conservatives attacking Ignatieff). The Conservatives were able to take advantage by making huge gains in vote-rich Ontario after consolidating their hold onto the West. Plus, the economy/fiscal concerns was one of THE most important issues of the election, and perceptions (helped by constant promotion on the Conservatives' part) that Harper and the Conservatives played a strong role in successfully navigating Canada through the global financial crisis and that further political stability was needed post-recession greatly helped the Conservative party as well.
    Nice thing about political science is no one holds absolute truth and everything is subject to interpretation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Nice thing about political science is no one holds absolute truth and everything is subject to interpretation.
    One could also say the exact same thing about anonymous posts on an Internet message board

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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    Well, Kovtun didn't have to do the test skate last year against Menshov and Voronov. Of course, maybe the fed considered his Euros skate to "be" his test skate entry?

    That said, I would much prefer it if there was a "proper" test skate between Plushy and Kovtun with both participating.

    Most of all, I would have preferred it if Plushy skated at Euros. But I believe that ship has sailed...
    It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

    Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

    Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    One could also say the exact same thing about anonymous posts on an Internet message board
    You really believe posting in IBB is "anonymous"? Well, I think you have a very different understanding of being anonymous than most people do in 2013 which may require some serious updates for you own good. I never shared who I am or what I do, yet people managed to track me down first on Ice Network, then here. Anonymity simply doesn't exist today so long as you are using internet with a browser and IP address. And I am positing with the full assumption that people know me or track me down if they want to. Therefore, I don't post things that will make me regret, you should probably do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

    Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

    Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?
    To be fair, such practice is hardly unique to Russia. The fact is most skating Federations closely monitor their top skaters with many such skates. They don't always call it test skate but they are often important in determining international assignments, perhaps more so than the national championship. The difference is country like U.S. or Canada typically select their World team with more structured process but the rest of the international assignments can be more or less a black box. Russia seems to take this more seriously, which is entirely within their right to do so - provided it was administered fairly. That's an open question but besides the point. In 2006, this was pretty much how Michelle Kwan secured her own spot for Torino Olympics so Russia is hardly alone. The fact they want to do this with Plushenko, a big star, is not surprising. If Russia had more than one spots for the Olympics, this would have been a non-issue. Most Figure Skating stars have at one point or the other in their career benefit from such outside-of-the-Nationals process, which is more common than most people realize.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

    Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

    Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?
    I don't know. One indication would be if there were vids of the test skate of Menshov/Voronov/Gachinski last year. Does anyone know if there were?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    You really believe posting in IBB is "anonymous"? Well, I think you have a very different understanding of being anonymous than most people do in 2013 which may require some serious updates for you own good. I never shared who I am or what I do, yet people managed to track me down first on Ice Network, then here. Anonymity simply doesn't exist today so long as you are using internet with a browser and IP address. And I am positing with the full assumption that people know me or track me down if they want to. Therefore, I don't post things that will make me regret, you should probably do the same.
    As someone who has followed the various revelations made by Edward Snowden closely, trust me when I say that I am well aware of how online anonymity is a rather fragile concept. But on the other hand, it's much easier to preserve one's anonymity to people outside of the NSA and their ilk when one refrains from stating that they had attended, say, a competition like the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver in person, or when they don't post how they personally spoke to so-and-so skater about one topic or another, or when they don't leave an easy online trail by using the same username across multiple Internet forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Er......it's ludicrous to attribute Harper's success in the 2011 federal election to feel-good feelings caused by the 2010 Olympics. Harper was able to win a majority for the first time because of the utter collapse of the Liberal Party partly due to poor leadership on Ignatieff's part (plus a successful PR campaign by the Conservatives attacking Ignatieff). The Conservatives were able to take advantage by making huge gains in vote-rich Ontario after consolidating their hold onto the West. Plus, the economy/fiscal concerns was one of THE most important issues of the election, and perceptions (helped by constant promotion on the Conservatives' part) that Harper and the Conservatives played a strong role in successfully navigating Canada through the global financial crisis and that further political stability was needed post-recession greatly helped the Conservative party as well.
    True tragedy. Canada survived the global financial crisis because of decisions by former Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien to say no to: 1. The Iraq war. As the retiring PM, he stood up to Bush and stayed by the will of the Canadians not to join in this war. 2. Canadian bank merger in order to join the world's major banks to play the financial scamming game on the world stage. Canadian banks and economy ended up avoiding the financial collapse. Canada also benefited from the shift of demands to natural resources. Harper took credit for the beneficial consequences of Chretien's courageous decisions and then squandered opportunities for prosperity by following American economic measures not appropriate for or in best interest of Canada.

    Such is politics and people being easily misled. As well, there are cycles and the Conservative Party was able to capitalize on the Liberal Party's weak period.

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    how on earth did this thread turned into politics ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    True tragedy. Canada survived the global financial crisis because of decisions by former Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien to say no to: 1. The Iraq war. As the retiring PM, he stood up to Bush and stayed by the will of the Canadians not to join in this war. 2. Canadian bank merger in order to join the world's major banks to play the financial scamming game on the world stage. Canadian banks and economy ended up avoiding the financial collapse. Canada also benefited from the shift of demands to natural resources. Harper took credit for the beneficial consequences of Chretien's courageous decisions and then squandered opportunities for prosperity by following American economic measures not appropriate for or in best interest of Canada.

    Such is politics and people being easily misled. As well, there are cycles and the Conservative Party was able to capitalize on the Liberal Party's weak period.
    I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, Harper's PR machine was able to work its magic (as it did in the case of Iggy) and many Canadians were led to believe otherwise :'(

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    how on earth did this thread turned into politics ?
    Wanna join in? It is more fun than your whining.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, Harper's PR machine was able to work its magic (as it did in the case of Iggy) and many Canadians were led to believe otherwise :'(
    Short term thinking and immediate gratification always prevail...... unfortunately.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's weird how the Russian fed is allowing all these test skates where athletes compete separate from each other. It's almost as if they don't want their own countrymen to "beat" each other, thereby giving them more room to make executive decisions. e.g. if Kovtun skated amazingly at Euros and beat Plushenko, there's very little way to justify Plushenko competing in Sochi no matter how well his test skate goes, since Kovtun has beat him twice.

    Also, it would look really suspect if Kovtun defeated Plushenko twice, and then Plushenko was named as Russia's "sole" entry (as in, for the team event and then pulls out citing injury so Kovtun can do the individual). Seems like the only way they can get Plushenko to go to Sochi, without risking losing to Kovtun and thus definitely compromising his Sochi chances, is to separate the two, and then make their own decision based on some test skate.

    Does anyone get to see these test skates? Are they posted on Youtube? e.g. say Plushenko has a poor test skate, the Russian fed can simply say he "skated well enough to go to Sochi" and nobody would know any better except those in attendance. And how does it work? Does he do the SP and the LP?
    I think will be this variation:
    Agence France-Presse http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...plushenko-flop

    and http://www.rg.ru/2013/12/29/konki-euro-site.html google translate

    "Competitions championship team before the start of the Olympics - February 6th . The deadline for submitting an application to participate - 27 January . This will be taken into account and the results skaters Championships in Budapest , and athletic form , typed for the Olympics. The final squad for the Olympic Games will determine the Expert Group . It does not include any of the personal trainers of applicants to participate in the Olympics , and the members of the Panel will be responsible for the performance at the Olympics . The group is headed Federation president , head coach of the team , Alexander Gorshkov . Just a group of 11 people ."

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