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Thread: Russia Names 2014 Team for Europeans

  1. #31
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    However the difference is that B/S can be switched out because Russia has multiple dance spots. Not to mention B/S won nationals. Russia only has one spot for men's and if its not their national champion it's their best skater at Euros, but if Plushenko isn't competing at Euros and isn't the reigning Russian champion then he shouldn't go.

  2. #32
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    And it already began….everybody tries to explain why Bobrova & Soloviev are not going to Euros…what it strange…everybody has a different explanation…

    http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20131225/710863568.html
    …from 25th of December….Bobrova & Soloviev says that there can be made some changes in free skate before Euros…admiting that there is still many things to work on, that they can’t stop…

    http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20131227/711124150.html
    …from 27th of December in the morning…there is list of parcicipants for Euros including with Bobrova & Soloviev…a few hours before final “Ispolkom“ decision…

    http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/13939.html
    …27th of December…few hours later after previous one…new list of participants withou Bobrova & Soloviev…

    …during medal ceremony a commentator notices that Bobrova was not included into Euros team…

    http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014...711173084.html
    …27 th of December wher Alexander Gorshkov (the President of Russian Federation) says that Bobrova & Soloviev will not take part at Euros…he says that Zhulin will give more details to it later…Gorshkov adds that this is because they will focus more at Olympics…

    http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/13943.html
    …in this interview Gorshkov says that Bobrova is already a part of Olympic team…he says that the decision not to compete at Euros was decided by a coach Zhulin and skaters themselves…

    http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/13954.html
    …interview where Valentin Piseev says that Bobrova & Solovive will not take part at Euros because their coach Zhulin desired it…Piseev says that Zhulin thinks that it is needful not to skate there to make a program better…
    …Piseev is asked if Bobrova & Soloviev will have some other start before Olympics…Piseev says that there will be no other competition for Bobrova…and in the same moment he also says that without Bobrova it will be a very good chance for Ilinykh to take a high placement at Euros (my note: this is quite strange answer for straight question about Bobrova’s competition only and Piseev immediately includes Ilinykh’s results into the answer…how about Bobrova‘s results a position, he doesn’t take care?)…

    http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/13947.html
    …27 th of December…interview with Bobrova…Ekaterina says that the decision of not competing at Euros was made by whole team after the Russian Nationals…for question about other competition before Olympics, Borbova answers that she thinks there will be something, at least open practise for Federation, judges and even foreign technical specialists, that it is not decided yet…she is asked about Team competition at Olympics – Bobrova answers that the Federation will decide who will parcicipate at Team event, that it will be a couple who will be ready better and maybe after short dance even a couple can be changed for somebody else…

    http://itar-tass.com/sport/861202
    …27 th of December…where Zhulin says that the decision of not participating at Euros was made by a team and it was made one week before Russian Nationals…

    http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014...711201045.html
    …where Zhulin takes a note about participating in both Team and Individual event at the Olympics…

    So everebody speaks a little bit different things like they would never meet each other to consultate it…explanation of one person knocks down explanation of another person…the decision about not competion at Euros was made one week before Nationals (Zhulin) / after Nationals (Bobrova) / it was not ever made and they will prepare for Euros (Bobrova & Soloviev after free dance, looking at primary list of participants from 27th of December in the morning)…the decision was made by Russian Federation and Ispolkom (commentator) / by Zhulin who desired it so much (Piseev) / by whole team (Gorshkov, Zhulin, Bobrova)…

  3. #33
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    I was looking back at Olympic years and how top couples behaved (including Zhulin’s skaters Navka & Kostomarov):
    2010 – Domnina & Shabalin – 1st at Euros, 3rd at Olympics
    2006 – Navka & Kostomarov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olypics
    2002 – Annisina & Peizerat – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1998 – Grishuk & Platov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1994 - Torvill & Dean – 1st at Euros, 3rd at Olympics
    - Grishuk & Platov - 2 at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1992 – Klimova & Ponomarenko – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1988 – Bestemianova & Bukin – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1984 – Torvill & Dean – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1980 – Linichuk & Karponosov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1976 – Pakhomova & Gorshkov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    Sure there were more couples who won medals both at Euros and Olympics in the same year.

    This is a nice example that all couples ever who wanted to have better chance at Olympics competed already at Euros. I also noticed that some repeated the fact about tiredness….ice dancers always had a better physicial condition then solo skaters, they also don’t jump in programs (where you need a lot of dynamic).
    It is strange that more skaters had a lot of competitions in a very similar scheme like Bobrova and Russian Federation or other federations are not taking such decisions – two Grand Prix, Grand Prix Final, National Championships and then Euros – Pechalat, Cappelini, from solo skaters Kovtun and Sotnikova with Lipnitskaya – and there were no doubts about not competing at Euros. And I am sure that it is also planned that they will take part at Team event as well.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    I was looking back at Olympic years and how top couples behaved (including Zhulin’s skaters Navka & Kostomarov):
    2010 – Domnina & Shabalin – 1st at Euros, 3rd at Olympics
    2006 – Navka & Kostomarov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olypics
    2002 – Annisina & Peizerat – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1998 – Grishuk & Platov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1994 - Torvill & Dean – 1st at Euros, 3rd at Olympics
    - Grishuk & Platov - 2 at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1992 – Klimova & Ponomarenko – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1988 – Bestemianova & Bukin – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1984 – Torvill & Dean – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1980 – Linichuk & Karponosov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    1976 – Pakhomova & Gorshkov – 1st at Euros, 1st at Olympics
    Sure there were more couples who won medals both at Euros and Olympics in the same year.

    This is a nice example that all couples ever who wanted to have better chance at Olympics competed already at Euros. I also noticed that some repeated the fact about tiredness….ice dancers always had a better physicial condition then solo skaters, they also don’t jump in programs (where you need a lot of dynamic).
    It is strange that more skaters had a lot of competitions in a very similar scheme like Bobrova and Russian Federation or other federations are not taking such decisions – two Grand Prix, Grand Prix Final, National Championships and then Euros – Pechalat, Cappelini, from solo skaters Kovtun and Sotnikova with Lipnitskaya – and there were no doubts about not competing at Euros. And I am sure that it is also planned that they will take part at Team event as well.
    This is different area for ice dance. Virtue/Moir, Davis/White probably will not skate 4CC also. (They didn't at 2010) I can understand Bobrova/Soloviev. Their free dance needs a lot of work. If they have doubt about competing I'm sure they wouldn't skate at GPF. GPF much more hard competition than Europeans.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Don't you think there's a reason why people have been so keen on finding another russian ice dance number one for Sochi?
    Bobrova / Soloviev have been called limited in their potential for so many years now.
    But you have to acknowledge why the Russian Federation was torn between supporting Bobrova/Soloviev 100% and hoping for something better.
    A few years ago I believed that all decisions made by Federation are done mainly because of skaters / dancers qualities. During those years many things happened and many decisions were made. I can personally understand that Tarasova loves Kovtun, Sotnikova, Ilinykh & Katsalapov, I can personally understand that Shechovcova likes and prefers Riazanova & Tkachenko. But Federation is chosen for making the best and “right at the moment“ decisions. Once it starts to be their personal choices because they liked brown hair more then blond hair (just example) or because they feel something without looking at facts, it stops to be all right. That is why I don’t put much attention to Federation decisions in time when I am looking for who is really the best or who is better.
    The definition of number 1 can be quite strict. It is the best couple at the moment. What is the best and what is appreciated in new judging system is described in Hanbook and ISU rules.

    Bobrova & Soloviev were called limited in 2008 because they were limited in dancing not in technique (since they appeared at seniors their programs were full of movements, very often over filled), they were called limited in 2010, because even with strong basics Dima made mistakes in twizzles, they were called limited in 2011 and 2012 because there was still something missing plus their skating was shacky, they were called limited in 2013 (but many people started like them), they are called limited in 2013/2014 at least by some fans and for certain by some members of Federation.

    Ilinykh & Katsalapov were called promising in 2010, because they looked promising, they were called promising in 2011 even with skating with mistakes, they were called promising in 2012 even when they didn’t qualify for GP Final as was expected, but at 2012 Worlds they won over Bobrova (it was the only time), they were called promising in 2013 even with last place at GPF and disaster at World’s free skate, they are called promising even now when they didn’t qualify for Euros, lost to Shibutani and with disaster at Nationals free dance.

    The results is that a limited couple is reigning European Champion, two time silver European medalists, World Bronze medalists, three time GP winners.
    While our promising couple is one time silver and bronze European Medalists, no World medal, no GP win. Doesn’t it sound quite funny even to you?

    I see Bobrova is not like Navka or Domnina or Krylova. Maybe problem of Russian Federation starts here. They were looking for new Plushenko for so long, everybody tried to skate like him but nobody was like him. It was a nonsense. There is no other Plushenko. He was the only one. Skating is kind of sport where originality takes place. Today they start praising Kovtun, already two years saying that he is not like Plushy clone which is great. They finally understood that it is a nonsense to look for somebody similar. Maybe they should do the same in dance. But Ilinykh is not like Navka, Domnina and Krylova as well, and the distance between Lena and those great dancers of past is enormous (much bigger than in Bobrova’s case). From all current dancers Ilinykh reminds Navka, Domnina and Krylova’s facial behaviour and poses the most…but she completely forgot the most important thing in dance which is…dance. Navka, Domnina and Krylova became dancing queens because they were great dancers, they were able to express any kind of music, they were great technicians, they know to fight to the end and they rarely do some mistakes. Facial expression came the last, like the nice supplement to everything what I noticed above.
    If Russian Federation stops looking for next Navka, and if they stop looking next Navka looking at facial expression first, maybe then they will start to judge couples looking at their skating / dancing quality. If they would do it in 2010, Bobrova & Soloviev would be the best Russian couple for all Olympic cycle.

    Unfortunately Russian Federation is not the only one with not so understable decisions. Akiko Suzuki is a beautiful skater, she is more complex then Asada last three years, and her ability to touch people’s heart with her emotional skating is unbelievable. But for her own Federation she was always worse then Asada. Do you mean that Suzuki is called limited because Federation always support Asada more? It is just another example of decision made by some Federation which is not based on skating qualities.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    A few years ago, Ilynikh/Katsalapov were described as a couple who at least had the potential to get to the level of Davis/White and Virtue/Moir.
    I remember that few years ago Ilinykh & Katsalapov were described like next Virtue & Moir couple, I also liked their programs and interpretation of it. Looking back many junior champions were impressive in time when they won. Virtue & Moir, Sinitsina & Zhiganshin, Monko& Khaliavin, Domnina & Shabalin, even Chock & Zuerlein, Stepanova & Bukin were impressive, also Bobrova & Soloviev (but they made some mistakes in free skate), they all looked so promising. But only time will show whether impressiveness in juniors will transfer into greatness in seniors. The only both junior and senior World Champions are Virtue & Moir and Domnina & Shabalin.
    Concretely in comparison with Virtue & Moir like juniors (except Scott’s twizzles) Ilinykh & Katsalapov were more weak in technic athought their programs were less difficult choreographed. In both programs Lena was getting slower in the last part of programs, Nikita helped her not to lose speed so much, during free skate she started to be tired and her skating became slower again and it was harder to control balance for her. But Virtue & Moir were unique in technique and they always had such difficult choreography with so close skating, I don’t remember any other team in this age to do that. But it is not important, Ilinykh & Katsalapov looked great and they were promising. Why Russian Federation immediately started to push this couple into skating heaven talking about next Olympic Champions…I already wrote about it earlier in other thread (If Bobrova & Soloviev are number 1 thread)…Russian Federation needed next couple while Domnina & Shabalin finished and Khokhlova was looking for new partner. Bobrova was already there, but reigning Junior World Champions sounds better then 2007 Junior World Champions.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I'm still hoping for a response from you about my question I asked you earlier: Was Bobrova/Soloviev's LP earlier this season http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fELRKt-_GHo already supposed to represent 2 frightened birds? Or was it something completely different?
    To your question, I am sorry not to answer sooner I didn’t notice that there is some question for me at thread.
    It is test skate in August…I see bird arm moves, better arm moves from Bobrova then from Soloviev, I see bird moves of head in some parts, I see some perfect moments in choreo which are birdy, I see shacky skating in some moments, some mistakes, there are almost no bird arm moves from second step sequence to the end of program, one move at the end reminds me birds again, I see a story of two birds, one was shot and later died, yes I see birds there, but still much work in front of the couple. And I also see that program is not ready for competition at all and needs to add many things in both technical and emotional side.

    I take like a big mistake how were all Russian dancers prepared at the beginning of the season. American and Canadian skaters already skated their programs at competitions in August and their programs looked ready and were nicely skated.
    While I saw Riazanova skated short dance during summer at some American competition, it was so weak with so many mistakes. During open skate at August I saw Bobrova & Soloviev short dance but with mistakes, free dance again with mistakes and split into two parts. Monko & Khaliavin looked ready in short dance, but free dance was again skated in two parts. Three weeks later in the beginning of September Ilinykh & Katsalapov are not able skate even short dance in one part, the dance was split into four parts which is beyond all understanding. Free dance was split into four parts again. It all allows to think that programs were not ready to be skated in one part. But skaters from America and Canada skated programs in one part and even at competitions. Another question for Federation what they were doing during summer promising that everything is going well? Unready programs from all dancers at the beginning of season means that everything is going well? I know that Soloviev was injured and Riazanova was injured but still… And question for coaches how is it possible that American and Canadian dancers were more ready then Russian dancers?

    A half season later it looks better looking at Nationals…at least Bobrova had clean skate, Sinitsina, Monko and Stepanova showed their programs in great quality, Riazanova’s programs are better skated also. But I still think that programs should be ready at beginning of the season like in case of American and Canadian skaters.

  8. #38
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    Yes, I do not understand the idea that arriving on the GP without programs well advanced is OK. You would think that the Russian federation would have control of this, and could tell skaters they are expected to arrive at test skates with programs ready to be skated in one piece, and not in 4 little segments. A waiver should be given for injured teams, but none the less, a program in good shape should be the stated goal.

    But then I do not understand some of the actions of USFS..or the French Federation. Federations are all nuts.

  9. #39
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    Sisinka, thank you for all the great insight you offer me and us. I really appreciate your in-depth analysis and that we can talk about it with objectivity. I've cited some criticism - from me or from the media - about Bobrova/Soloviev, and I'm really thrilled to be able to discuss this with you whereas some other poster would have resorted to something like "you just don't get it at all!" and ended the discussion there.

    Just to sum up my position: I tried to explain why the Russian Federation was hoping so much that Ilynikh/Katsalapov would become the next big thing, and I pointed out how difficult it is to find a right moment to "let go of that hope". I'm glad that the world of Ice Dance has become far less political than it used to be years ago, and that it's becoming easier to get great marks for a great performance, even if you didn't get 100% of the possible backing from your federation in the past, and aren't showcased as the clear and only number one in your country. Ilynikh/Katsalapov winning this year's Trophée Éric Bompart by overtaking Péchalat/Bourzat in the free in front of their home crowd thanks to a clean performance is a good example.
    But then, Ilynikh/Katsalapov getting such huge marks for their very flawed Free Dance at Russian Nationals shows there's still a long way to go...

    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    The results is that a limited couple is reigning European Champion, two time silver European medalists, World Bronze medalists, three time GP winners.
    While our promising couple is one time silver and bronze European Medalists, no World medal, no GP win. Doesn’t it sound quite funny even to you?
    Well, between "promising for the future" and "at the top of their game right now, but with limited potential" most of the time the latter still wins
    But as I've said earlier,
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    A few years ago, Ilynikh/Katsalapov were described as a couple who at least had the potential to get to the level of Davis/White and Virtue/Moir.
    I completely agree that things haven't developed in that way.
    I remember Hendryk Schamberger, German Eurosport commentator and former Ice Dancer (10th at the 1994 Lillehammer Olympics), criticize Bobrova/Soloviev year after year because he felt they were too theatrical, and that their focus was too much on big theatrical costumes and fitting "posing" rather than technical difficulty and speed. He was thrilled when they switched to Zhulin and said that might be the change they needed.
    Ilynikh/Katsalapov, in their first years, he kept on calling them "the future of Russian Ice Dance", and that it was "just a matter of time before they overtook Bobrova/Soloviev". He noted that they had great speed in their twizzles, just like Davis/White had even in their early days, and that "most said Davis/White were too wild and took too much risk of making a mistake in their beginnings".

    Oh, and to end with a wink,
    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    A few years ago I believed that all decisions made by Federation are done mainly because of skaters / dancers qualities.
    Dorispulaski summed it up best:
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Federations are all nuts.
    Ask Samuel Contesti, 2nd of the French Nationals in 2005-06, and who didn't get chosen for the Olympics because the 3rd place finisher was coached by Annick Gailhaguet, former wife of the French FFSF president!
    (here's the wink)

  10. #40
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    ... ok, I dug in deeper!
    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    The results is that a limited couple is reigning European Champion, two time silver European medalists, World Bronze medalists, three time GP winners.
    While our promising couple is one time silver and bronze European Medalists, no World medal, no GP win. Doesn’t it sound quite funny even to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    between "promising for the future" and "at the top of their game right now, but with limited potential" most of the time the latter still wins
    Promising and potential:
    Iliniykh/Katsalapov got 171.89points at Trophée Éric Bompart where they beat Péchalat/Bourzat and finished second to Virtue/Moir. B/S never had V/M or D/W in the same GP event. B/S would have lost to I/K, but also to Péchalat/Bourzat if they had gotten their CoC or CoR scores there.
    Bobrova/Soloviev got 163.42points at CoC where they also finished second, behind Péchalat/Bourzat. Ilynikh/Katsalapov would have beaten them and Péchalat/Bourzat and won the CoC with their scores from TEB.
    Bobrova/Soloviev got 168.32points at CoR where they won. Ilynikh/Katsalapov would have beaten them and won the CoR with their scores from TEB.
    So results aren't always what shows the performance best. Results rely on the competition, and Bobrova/Soloviev were lucky not to have V/M or S/D in their GP thanks to their World Ranking.

    I agree that I/K haven't shown their potential enough, but this is what "potential" means: beat Péchalat/Bourzat in France, where B/S lost to them on neutral ground.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    [B]I remember Hendryk Schamberger, German Eurosport commentator and former Ice Dancer (10th at the 1994 Lillehammer Olympics), criticize Bobrova/Soloviev year after year because he felt they were too theatrical, and that their focus was too much on big theatrical costumes and fitting "posing" rather than technical difficulty and speed. He was thrilled when they switched to Zhulin and said that might be the change they needed.
    Ilynikh/Katsalapov, in their first years, he kept on calling them "the future of Russian Ice Dance", and that it was "just a matter of time before they overtook Bobrova/Soloviev". He noted that they had great speed in their twizzles, just like Davis/White had even in their early days, and that "most said Davis/White were too wild and took too much risk of making a mistake in their beginnings".
    Frenchie, talking to you is very interesting. Hendryk Schamberger has his own opinion, Maxim Staviski has his own opinion (a little bit different from Schamberger’s ones) and I believe many other ice dancing experts have their own opinions. By the way Zhulin and Morozov and Zueva and Sphilband and Krylova are ex ice dancers, and somebody of them prefers Virtue, somebody prefers Davis, while Linichuk said that the best dancers of all times are Domnina & Shabalin. While Evgeni Platov thinks that Torvill & Dean were the best even better than he himself (I also heard that Platov complimented Coomes & Buckland like very promising and improving ones). While Staviski thinks Virtue is old-fashioned, I believe that Zueva has a little bit different opinion…no, I am sure she has a different opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Just to sum up my position: I tried to explain why the Russian Federation was hoping so much that Ilynikh/Katsalapov would become the next big thing, and I pointed out how difficult it is to find a right moment to "let go of that hope". I'm glad that the world of Ice Dance has become far less political than it used to be years ago, and that it's becoming easier to get great marks for a great performance, even if you didn't get 100% of the possible backing from your federation in the past, and aren't showcased as the clear and only number one in your country. But then,
    I would like to believe that marks are given deservedly even without Federation support, it would be lovely…if it would be true. Oh, I would love this situation. Let’s make a test. Europeans will be started in three weeks. And there will be one more very promising young ice dancing couple – Sinitsina & Zhiganshin. I am watching them since they won Junior World Championships, see above our earlier conversation - that more Junior Champions had an impressive skating, Sinitsina & Zhiganshin’s Phantom of the Opera was something not less special than Schindler’s List. This year Sinitsina & Zhiganshin suffered from no support and no attention by Russian Federation getting low marks at every competition, sure they were making mistakes rooted from no big competition experiences. But watching them at Russian Nationals – they were the second best couple both in short and free dance. Ruslan Zhiganshin is a expressive, demonic and passionate dancer who always catches people’s attentions, while Victoria is a beautiful young lady with elegant and smooth moves. Both Victoria and Ruslan have great basics and technique, wonderful contact with each other and chemistry, they both look very well (we know that sometimes even these things are important, Vika can be crowded the best looking dancer at Euros). They work together as a couple, support each other. They skate with freshness and they are obviously enjoying dancing. Their dances at Russian Nationals were wow – especially in short dance Ruslan over-danced all much more experienced men dancers. The weakness are lifts but as we know Lena and Nikita were getting high marks even with weak lifts, actually Lena and Nikita learn a new and difficult lifts this season which is their fourth senior season (and how much problematic their lifts become we saw already, even in gala during first lift Lena’s blades came into “quite dangerous zone”, and during second lift she almost fell from the positition – I am sure that she cut Nikita’s skin on leg a little bit with her blade, with new judging system lifts became dangerous, expecially a difficult ones, maybe Morozov will persuade them to come back to old more easy lifts to avoid some injuries).
    Sinitsina & Zhiganshin have zero support by Russian Federation, but if you think that support is no more needed, then Vika and Ruslan should finish no lower then in fourth place like Lena and Nikita during their Euros debut. I hope you are true. I am looking forward to see it.

    Until we see Euros we can compare:
    Lena and Nikita with support by Russian Federation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5VtI5Gl5c …99.34 points
    Vika and Ruslan without support by Russian Federation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXCjrzuFDpA ….98.52 points


    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Ilynikh/Katsalapov winning this year's Trophée Éric Bompart by overtaking Péchalat/Bourzat in the free in front of their home crowd thanks to a clean performance is a good example.
    Please I know that I am a detailman but I can’t say that performance with shacky turns and stumble in step sequence is taken as “clean” performance, in thread TEB there is written that GOE was higher then it should be (looking at Handbook for judges). If those judges would notice out of the rhythm parts, simply if the judges would really marked what stayed on the ice after Lena and Nikita’s free skate, the French would finish second. (Judges probably didn’t notice a stumble, and they didn’t want to believe that somebody who is called next Olympic champion by Russian Federation can be out of the rhythm…it may happen, they are human ones only, and nobody of us is unmistakable).

    As to undeserved marking in free skate I wrote about it in another thread.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    ... Iliniykh/Katsalapov got 171.89points at Trophée Éric Bompart where they beat Péchalat/Bourzat and finished second to Virtue/Moir. B/S never had V/M or D/W in the same GP event. B/S would have lost to I/K, but also to Péchalat/Bourzat if they had gotten their CoC or CoR scores there.
    Bobrova/Soloviev got 163.42points at CoC where they also finished second, behind Péchalat/Bourzat. Ilynikh/Katsalapov would have beaten them and Péchalat/Bourzat and won the CoC with their scores from TEB.
    Bobrova/Soloviev got 168.32points at CoR where they won. Ilynikh/Katsalapov would have beaten them and won the CoR with their scores from TEB.
    So results aren't always what shows the performance best. Results rely on the competition, and Bobrova/Soloviev were lucky not to have V/M or S/D in their GP thanks to their World Ranking.

    I agree that I/K haven't shown their potential enough, but this is what "potential" means: beat Péchalat/Bourzat in France, where B/S lost to them on neutral ground.
    I also already talked about different marks from different competitions given by different judges and levels given by different “kind” or “strict” technical specialist.

    Because Ilinykh & Katsalapov skated a disaster at free dance at Worlds and finish a nice 9th place, they got that Grand Prix with that skaters, so you can see it was well deserved (but to be fair… in comparison with this year disaster at free dance at Nationals, that performance at Worlds was still better with less number of badly executed elements and no missing elements…then it is quite surprising that they got 90 points only and not 99 like at Nationals…why not?).

    Bobrova & Soloviev were in the same situation like Lena and Nikita last season. They met Davis White at Skate America last year, where they finished second in front of Weaver & Poje. Then Bobrova finished second and again in front of Weaver & Poje in Cup od China – so suprisingly Bobrova came into final and finished fifth there.

    This year Lena and Nikita were supposed to repeat Bobrova’s style and beat couples who finished ahead of them at last Worlds, Lena and Nikita failed in NHK finishing in fourth place even behind Shibutani. Result in TEB was discussed above.

    This year surprisingly Bobrova and Soloviev were also very lucky (even more lucky than Lena and Nikita) to meet both Virtue and Davis in one time…at Grand Prix Final. They were third after the short dance, they lost third place because of fall, still they kept fourth position. So you can see that looking at GP Final judges think that Bobrova & Soloviev are capable to win over everybody with clean skate (except Virtue and Davis of course).

    As we know one couple can’t beat another couple through ocean and from different competitions. One couple can beat another couple meeting at one competition. Lena & Nikita could go to Final to meet Bobrova & Soloviev, they didn’t come – they didn’t qualify. So the couples met at Nationals for the first time this year…and the results is already well known.

  14. #44
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    Frenchie, talking to you is very interesting.
    Same here

    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    very promising young ice dancing couple – Sinitsina & Zhiganshin. I am watching them since they won Junior World Championships
    Hey, I'm 100% with you on this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    congratulations to hanca (again! ) and to frenchie, who were the only ones to predict S/Z in third!
    ... and that prediction didn't plan on I/K's performance...

  15. #45
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting discussion... Maybe a different thread?

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