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Thread: Russian Men prospects

  1. #16
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    You also wrote about France supporting a new genration of men but of all the men at French nationals besseghier still placed third.
    I'm talking about funding their training to increase their chances of making it in a few years. I'm not saying that any french Junior is better than Besseghier today.
    There's always some benefit if your federation pays for you to participate in a high level training camp (in Russia) or pay for you to spend a few weeks with a renowned choreographer to get a new program together. The FFSG has done that in the past for Besseghier, I don't think they're going to do it anymore.
    Romain Ponsart seemed to have some potential 2 seasons ago, but he's been off the grid this entire season. No idea if he's injured. His biggest asset is being coached by Annick Dumont-Gailhaguet because of her huge influence in the FFSG (ex-wife of Didier Gailhaguet, maybe the most corrupt of all ISU officials. Ever. Picture Napoléon Bonaparte. With less hair.). I already pointed that out recently with Samuel Contesti not getting his Olympic Spot in 2006 because the weaker skater was coached by Annick Gailhaguet.
    But I don't know if she doesn't already have another, more hopeful, younger skater.
    I think the overall interest in Figure Skating in France, already lightyears away from what it was with Candéloro, Bonaly, Duchesnays, Joubert at his peak etc, will fall to an all-time low after this season's retirements, so they will probably put up with a few years without strong results for France, to increase the chances of having a future champion.
    That's why I don't think they'll invest into Besseghier anymore. And for now and the next few years, there's still Amodio... If someone can manage to convince him that doing combinations in the LP isn't uncool!

  2. #17
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    I like Artur G. He is only 20, but so many men are better, in japan alone. I wish he would leave Mishin and stop trying to copy plush. He seems like a wannabe. He needs his own style. Of course he adores plush, but he needs his own style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    no matter what nonsense is said about some other woman being his coach.
    That other woman is Elena Buianova. She was one of the biggest stars in female figure skating in the Soviet Union as Elena Vodorezova, 5-time Soviet Champion, winning a bronze medal at the 1983 Worlds and 3 medals at Europeans. She was the first soviet woman to ever medal at Europeans. She was the coach of Olga Markova.

    She might not be as loud and in your face! as Tarasova, but she is, in fact, the true coach of Sotnikova and Kovtun and has been for years (Sotnikova since she was 8, Kovtun only for 2 years - before that, Kovtun's coach was... Morozov!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I'm talking about funding their training to increase their chances of making it in a few years. I'm not saying that any french Junior is better than Besseghier today.
    There's always some benefit if your federation pays for you to participate in a high level training camp (in Russia) or pay for you to spend a few weeks with a renowned choreographer to get a new program together. The FFSG has done that in the past for Besseghier, I don't think they're going to do it anymore.
    Romain Ponsart seemed to have some potential 2 seasons ago, but he's been off the grid this entire season. No idea if he's injured. His biggest asset is being coached by Annick Dumont-Gailhaguet because of her huge influence in the FFSG (ex-wife of Didier Gailhaguet, maybe the most corrupt of all ISU officials. Ever. Picture Napoléon Bonaparte. With less hair.). I already pointed that out recently with Samuel Contesti not getting his Olympic Spot in 2006 because the weaker skater was coached by Annick Gailhaguet.
    But I don't know if she doesn't already have another, more hopeful, younger skater.
    I think the overall interest in Figure Skating in France, already lightyears away from what it was with Candéloro, Bonaly, Duchesnays, Joubert at his peak etc, will fall to an all-time low after this season's retirements, so they will probably put up with a few years without strong results for France, to increase the chances of having a future champion.
    That's why I don't think they'll invest into Besseghier anymore. And for now and the next few years, there's still Amodio... If someone can manage to convince him that doing combinations in the LP isn't uncool!
    They should always invest in Jrs but not ignore the Besseghiers and the Vanessa James / Cipres team.

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I like Artur G. He is only 20, but so many men are better, in japan alone. I wish he would leave Mishin and stop trying to copy plush. He seems like a wannabe. He needs his own style. Of course he adores plush, but he needs his own style.
    I don't think hes anything like PLushenko at all anymore! I think if people thinking that as long as he's with mishin its the number one reason for him to leave if it is holding him back and when he was doing ok was really holding his PCS back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    That other woman is Elena Buianova. She was one of the biggest stars in female figure skating in the Soviet Union as Elena Vodorezova, 5-time Soviet Champion, winning a bronze medal at the 1983 Worlds and 3 medals at Europeans. She was the first soviet woman to ever medal at Europeans. She was the coach of Olga Markova.

    She might not be as loud and in your face! as Tarasova, but she is, in fact, the true coach of Sotnikova and Kovtun and has been for years (Sotnikova since she was 8, Kovtun only for 2 years - before that, Kovtun's coach was... Morozov!).
    Kovtun said he had to be told by Tarasova that Buianova was his coach at one point so I think theres some interesting stuff going on there and its very unclear. That for some reason Tarasova can't be seen as totally in control.

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    I doubt Russian men can return to its golden age in the late 90's
    but there could be an improved prospect for the future, Kovtun seems to handle pressure more than Gachinski
    probably because of Kovtun's Huge Ego, his talent could become a 2nd tier Russian skater type from the 90's like Alexander Abt etc. not too bad
    then there is Pitkeev and Petrov who are still very young but are promising

    the problem with most of the men are inconsistent, you have Moris Kvitelashvili who has quads but seems have trouble landing them
    then there is Samarin with zero 3Axel

  6. #21
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    It's unlikely Russia will get back to it's golden age of skating with Yagudin/Plushenko rivalry.
    I think they still can. Look at the upcoming Russian girls. Soon it may be Julia vs Elena just like Yag vs Plushenko. Russia has a centralised government funded training system like China which makes it easier for them to 'churn out' champions compared to non-centralised funded/self funded system in N. America and some European countries. And isn't figure skating a well loved sport in Russia too?

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    I think Kovtun was sent to 2013 Worlds, because in that season he had won his both junior GP events plus the JGPF and was 5th at the senior Europeans. Nobody from the senior Russians was even close to these achievements. Kovtun needed senior experience and at Worlds he got it.

    In current season he got silver from his both senior GP events and became Russian National champion. I believe he is the future of the Russian skating in men´s discipline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I think they still can. Look at the upcoming Russian girls. Soon it may be Julia vs Elena just like Yag vs Plushenko. Russia has a centralised government funded training system like China which makes it easier for them to 'churn out' champions compared to non-centralised funded/self funded system in N. America and some European countries. And isn't figure skating a well loved sport in Russia too?
    I agree. Russian men are currently going through a bit of slump but there are some promising juniors that may make it.
    Pitkeev is only 15 and he is already getting decent results - gold and silver at JGP, silver at JGPF and 5th at senior nationals. He is coached by Tutberidze (Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva's coach).
    Petrov is only 14 and got two silvers at JGP and fifth at JGPF.
    Kolyada got silver and bronze from JGPF. He was first alternate for JGPF.
    Samarin got two bronze medals last season at JGP events; this season he finished fourth at his first event, so they took his second event away from him.

  9. #24
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Kovtun said he had to be told by Tarasova that Buianova was his coach at one point so I think theres some interesting stuff going on there and its very unclear. That for some reason Tarasova can't be seen as totally in control.
    Tarasova is an appointed consultant(or something like that) for the whole Russian Team, so I guess she cant be singled out as coach of Kovtun. Lately when she was asked about RN results, she answered that she is interested in the progress of her student only(kovtun) and sort of was accused for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I agree. Russian men are currently going through a bit of slump but there are some promising juniors that may make it.
    Pitkeev is only 15 and he is already getting decent results - gold and silver at JGP, silver at JGPF and 5th at senior nationals. He is coached by Tutberidze (Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva's coach).
    Petrov is only 14 and got two silvers at JGP and fifth at JGPF.
    Kolyada got silver and bronze from JGPF. He was first alternate for JGPF.
    Samarin got two bronze medals last season at JGP events; this season he finished fourth at his first event, so they took his second event away from him.
    He's only 14? Now I'm impressed. I think he'll definitely be on Russian team in the future.

    Another important question is how much can Kovtun improve on the 2nd mark?

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    Ya know, I actually like Sergei Voronov. He has a certain sly sexiness that borders on crazy/sketchy...but it's a nice contrast to Maxim Kovtun's very straight-edged classical aura.

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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    He's only 14? Now I'm impressed. I think he'll definitely be on Russian team in the future.

    Another important question is how much can Kovtun improve on the 2nd mark?
    I think Kovtun can definitely improve on it, but he already has good musicality, and can really sell a program. I still think his SP is my favourite this year... I thought that Virtue/Moir were the best to interpret/execute that music, but - for a men's SP - Kovtun is absolutely scintillating. I mean, that footwork... a Flamenco can look so sloppy if you don't have that attack and sharpness, and he's certainly got it.

    Considering his season last year and this year, it's also remarkable that he got not one but 2 quads in such a short period of time, and with more consistency than a lot of other guys have shown this year (certainly more than Fernandez, Hanyu, Aaron and other attempting both the 4S and 4T). If not for Machida, he'd totally be my most improved skater this year.

    In terms of ambitiousness, his program (3 quads and 2 triple axels) is exceedingly difficult... and to think he just came out of juniors. If he stays uninjured and with Tarasova pushing him at an accelerated pace and developing his artistry (thank god he left Morozov), at least his future is bright when it comes to the Russian men.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think Kovtun can definitely improve on it, but he already has good musicality, and can really sell a program.
    Last year at Euros he was as interesting as Pfeifer to watch. Actually Pfeifer is more musical. I m waiting to see his progress at these Euros, Tarasova has made a clever Lp for him, to cover the luck of personality for me, but anyway he is young.

  14. #29
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    In my opinion Kovtun shows great musicality and artistry in sp and fs this season. He has improved a lot.

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    Petrov frightens me a bit cause technically he's great but his style is set up as something very common, it lacks personality. But in his 14 Gachinski was that way too, and now he gained expression and portrays beautiful dramatic stuff. So I hope Petrov will change when he's older.

    After Plushenko is out, Russian men will lose their idol whom they followed and whom their coaches hoped to copy in their students. I guess they will search for inspiration in skaters from other countries, adopt international values and pay more attention to PCS when they do now (in fact, they already started).

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