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Thread: Can Gracie Gold finally win US Nationals ?

  1. #31
    Custom Title Sochi_2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Ashley will repeat as the US Champion for two reasons: 1) Her jumps are pretty consistent and 2) She has maintained her positioning as the #1 US Lady internationally. Gracie had her chance to challenge Ashley as the #1 US Lady this season, but she blew it by bombing on the international circuit. She was terrible at the US International Classic and on the Grand Prix circuit (one good short program excluded.)

    I do not understand the hype over Gracie. This is a skater who has NEVER won a senior-level competition, not even a low-level summer competition like Skate Detroit. Her biggest accomplishment is finishing a mediocre sixth at Worlds. And, for all the hype over her jumps, she cannot land them in competition.

    So, no, I don’t think she will win Nationals, or any event, because she has ZERO jump consistency. The judges don’t care about her bad programs. She’d receive fabulous scores if she was able to land her jumps. But, outside of one junior season, she’s never been able to land her jumps when it counts.

    In fact, I am thinking that Gracie will deliver one of her terrible three-triple long programs, and be held up by the National judges. She's done nothing to deserve making the Olympic team over another skater who delivers a better performance at Nationals. Her results are terrible. But she has the IMG hype machine behind her, and that has gotten her endorsement deals and will probably get her onto the Olympic team, even if she doesn't deserve the spot.
    Everything you have stated is overly exaggerated. First off, since when is a bronze medal at Skate Canada and a 4th place finish at NHK considered "bombing on the Grand Prix circuit"
    as you have stated? Second, since when is finishing 6th at your first senior Worlds considered "mediocre"? Third, you say that outside of her junior Nationals title that she's never managed to skate well when it counted... Does last year at Nationals ring a bell? Gracie skated lights out and won the long. She pulled herself all the way up to 2nd place from 9th place after the short. You might wanna just do a quick Google search before you state incorrect information. It's clear that you don't like Gracie, but there's no need to downplay her accomplishments. Although in all likelihood I do believe Wagner will defend her title again at Nationals, I do think you should respect Gracie on her efforts.

  2. #32
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    Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Gracie has not proven herself to be a consistent competitor. And with the coaching and program changes, she is basically starting all over again this season. Her goal should be to make the team. Her future is very bright but there is no need to rush it. After Sochi, the field will be pretty wide open at the international level. Then, with the spotlight off, she can make winning Nationals and making the World podium her goal.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    she blew it by bombing on the international circuit. She was terrible at the US International Classic and on the Grand Prix circuit (...)
    This is a skater who has NEVER won a senior-level competition, not even a low-level summer competition like Skate Detroit. Her biggest accomplishment is finishing a mediocre sixth at Worlds. And, for all the hype over her jumps, she cannot land them in competition.
    So, no, I don’t think she will win Nationals, or any event, because she has ZERO jump consistency. The judges don’t care about her bad programs. She’d receive fabulous scores if she was able to land her jumps. But, outside of one junior season, she’s never been able to land her jumps when it counts.
    In fact, I am thinking that Gracie will deliver one of her terrible three-triple long programs, and be held up by the National judges. She's done nothing to deserve making the Olympic team over another skater who delivers a better performance at Nationals. Her results are terrible. But she has the IMG hype machine behind her, and that has gotten her endorsement deals and will probably get her onto the Olympic team, even if she doesn't deserve the spot.
    Gosh, did she steal your lunchbox in Kindergarten or something?

  4. #34
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    ^^To be honest everything Selene said was true to a certain extent. I guess she just could've said it a little nicer

    After all the hype that preceded Gracie entering the senior level, I think most people were expecting her to do what Julia has done these last two seasons. Julia medaled at both of her events last season and made the Final; she had to withdraw but she still qualified. This year she won gold at both of her events and came in second at the Final. She has a very good shot at making it to the podium in Sochi and her name is always in the mix when you're talking about the top ladies in the sport now. Based on all of the hype and excitement about Gracie, I expected her to be in the same position as Julia heading into Sochi.

    To say this is only Gracie's second-year on the GP, she's actually done pretty well: 7th, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. To be honest that's a great record for a second year senior. The problem is it falls tragically short of the expectations most people had for her. Gracie was touted as the strongest US lady, the savior, the one who would put the US ladies on the map. It has not turned out that way. I do think it's very unfair (and stupid) that people put that kind of pressure on her before she even debuted at the senior level, but the point is it happened. So next to those lofty expectations, what she's accomplished so far is actually a bit of a disappointment because people were expecting her to be a lot more successful than she is.

    I do think Gracie's time is yet to come. She is still learning who she is as a skater, she's still learning to compete and she's going to need time. She has the talent, that's for sure. She just needs time.

  5. #35
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    Come to think of it more though based on international scoring a clean Gracie Gold would probably win the short program over a clean Wagner, even with Wagners triple flip-triple toe. Wagner skated a clean short at the Grand Prix final and still placed below Sotnikova who did only a triple toe-triple toe (and had slightly lower PCS too, GOEs was the difference, and we know a clean Gold can pile on the GOE points). More to the point Golds highest short program score this year is still lower than Golds Skate Canada SP. Wagners case is interesting as her upping the difficulty has not helped her scores one iota yet this season, even in the short program where she has skated some clean ones (no clean longs yet). It must be a bit deflating to her.

    The long program Wagner should come out ahead even if both are clean due to a big PCS edge, but who knows what the USFSA is thinking. Probably if both skated cleanly the one who suited their current ideal plans would be the winner. I would think that would be Wagner largely due to her being alot more reliable internationaly than Gold, and that would be the main reason they back her rather than her being the better packaged and more complete skater right now. I am sure they see Gold as their top future prospect, but dont neccessarily have faith at this point in her delivering at the Games, even if she did at Nationals, so smarter and safer to back reliable Ashley as the #1 even if Gold skates well at Nationals. Only they know the answer to this though, and if both skate well, what they want and who they prefer to back as their #1 is what will decide things more than any legit arguments on their programs, technical abilities, or current skating merits.

  6. #36
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Well, Kwan was quoted as saying she thinks Frank will get Gracie where she wants to go, which is the top. I hope Ashley wins by a lot this year so she feels great going to Sochi. And I hope Grace and Samantha skate great and round out the team.

  7. #37
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    I'm interested to see if Mirai has made any progress working with Mura for the last couple of weeks. She rotated all of her triples at COR; if she does that at nationals, and can manage to show a few signs of life in her performance, I can't see them keeping her off the team. But if Mirai and Agnes do what they've been doing for most of the season (flub) and Samantha manages to skate cleanly, I really hope they give it to her because she's been pretty steady all season long...plus I just love her programs!

  8. #38
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    Let's look at ASHLEY's accomplishments in her first two years as a senior.

    Grand Prix:
    2007-2008: 5th, 3rd
    2008-2009: 4th, 4th

    Ashley didn't win her first GP event until 2012.

    JW 2007: 3rd
    Worlds 2008: 16th
    JW 2009: 3rd

    Compare this to Gracie's record:

    Grand Prix
    2012-2013: 7th, 2nd
    2013-2014: 3rd, 4th

    JW 2012: 2nd
    Worlds 2013: 6th

    IMO, Gracie's end-of-season record in her first two seasons looks a lot better than Ashley's, and her GP record is quite similar. So I don't get why Gracie is being dumped on.

  9. #39
    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I'm interested to see if Mirai has made any progress working with Mura for the last couple of weeks. She rotated all of her triples at COR; if she does that at nationals, and can manage to show a few signs of life in her performance, I can't see them keeping her off the team. But if Mirai and Agnes do what they've been doing for most of the season (flub) and Samantha manages to skate cleanly, I really hope they give it to her because she's been pretty steady all season long...plus I just love her programs!
    I agree. I have been curious about Mirai's progress training in Japan. She posted pics from Japanese Nationals. I am hoping that the level of competition inspired her. I am really excited to watch how she does at Nationals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I'm interested to see if Mirai has made any progress working with Mura for the last couple of weeks. She rotated all of her triples at COR; if she does that at nationals, and can manage to show a few signs of life in her performance, I can't see them keeping her off the team. But if Mirai and Agnes do what they've been doing for most of the season (flub) and Samantha manages to skate cleanly, I really hope they give it to her because she's been pretty steady all season long...plus I just love her programs!
    Based on the last 2 Nationals I expect Agnes to be placed into 3rd and thus on the team if she executes a clean short and atleast 4 clean triples in the long, regardless what Mira or Samantha (or any other prospective contender) does.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    But if Mirai and Agnes do what they've been doing for most of the season (flub) and Samantha manages to skate cleanly, I really hope they give it to her
    Don't forget about Christina Gao! She's had a rough patch with consistency this year, but I could totally picture her staying clean and getting on that podium. She finished 5th at the last 4 US Champs in a row! When she's clean, she's a delight to watch and I'm crossing my fingers for her. Especially with her SP to "Close without touching", she reminds me a lot of Chen Lu or Michelle Kwan (... or Karen Kwan, who skated to that same music!)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHY1LTXzWZs

  12. #42
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Based on the last 2 Nationals I expect Agnes to be placed into 3rd and thus on the team if she executes a clean short and atleast 4 clean triples in the long, regardless what Mira or Samantha (or any other prospective contender) does.
    If Mirai or Samantha manage to perform better than Agnes she should not be on the team. She's had way too much time to get herself together over the last three years and at this point, she hasn't done anything to earn a trip to Sochi or deserve the judges' favor over anyone else, especially somebody who has out-skated her all season. I'll be really really pissed if they hold her up and put her on the team this year. The only way she should make it on that team is if she actually earns her way on the team. I don't know how much longer the USFSA thinks they can hold onto Agnes, but at this point there are too many talented skaters who have the ability to skate better.

    Agnes' time is up. Deliver or get the hell out of the way...

  13. #43
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    IA kwanatic... Cesario is a great performer. But does she have enough tech arsenal do you think?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    If Mirai or Samantha manage to perform better than Agnes she should not be on the team. She's had way too much time to get herself together over the last three years and at this point, she hasn't done anything to earn a trip to Sochi or deserve the judges' favor over anyone else, especially somebody who has out-skated her all season. I'll be really really pissed if they hold her up and put her on the team this year. The only way she should make it on that team is if she actually earns her way on the team. I don't know how much longer the USFSA thinks they can hold onto Agnes, but at this point there are too many talented skaters who have the ability to skate better.

    Agnes' time is up. Deliver or get the hell out of the way...
    I agree she shouldnt be held up. I am just predicting what I think will happen, not neccessarily what I hope. Anyway didnt Agnes manage only 3 clean triples in the LP at the last 2 Nationals, so even my projections for what she has to do to make the team (clean short, 4 triples long) might not happen. Anyway to be fair to Agnes she could not skate that well in the long program as usual, but the others might all not as well, in which case there probably wouldnt be much or any controversy of her making the team. Or she might skate very well in the long program for once and earn her place on the team.

    I do agree it seems that Nagasu and Cesario are more likely to skate cleaner at Nationals than Agnes now, but wierd things often seem to happen to Nagasu at Nationals so no matter what good signs there seem for her, I will wait and see on her; and Cesario is beautiful and promising but lacks in some of the speed, power, maturity. and tech. content to the judges that could keep her below certain skaters even if she skates cleaner than they do.

  15. #45
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    I think Gracie CAN win nationals, but I don't know how likely that is. I think she might have won last year had she not fallen in the SP and found herself so far behind Ashley to begin with. Also, she faced a lot of pressure last year (even if it is a different type of pressure than she will face this year) and came out with a silver medal, which is pretty darn good for your first senior nationals. On some level, Ashley and Gracie probably know they're the favorites to make the team and that has to make it slightly (emphasis on "slightly") easier. I'm also interested to see how working with Frank Carroll is treating Gracie, since she has now had an extra month and a half or so since we last saw her compete. I'm guessing Ashley and Gracie will be the top 2. Regardless, I hope all of the ladies skate well and let the best three continue on to Sochi.

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