How is men's figure skating viewed in Russia? | Golden Skate

How is men's figure skating viewed in Russia?

wootie

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
So, unfortunately, men's figure skating in the states (not sure about Canada) is often something that is derided, mocked, etc. by the general public as it generally conjures up images of a prancing queen rolling around on the ice, acting like a man princess. While I disagree with this perception of men in figure skating, it's definitely a real thing. The other night, Jay Leno made a crack about how the all male figure skaters would have to sit out the Sochi Olympics because being a male figure skater comes with a 99% likelihood that you're gay. Anyway, I'm wondering if men in figure skating is derided in the same way in Russia. Or is it seen as a sport that "real" men can go into? Do male figure skaters face the same stigma that male figure skaters here do?
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Clearly Plushenko, Yagudin, Kulik were big stars. I think the best skaters are considered artists like premier danseurs in the Russian Ballet. I do not know what Russian people feel about flowery costumes on men, nor do I know if the whole country is getting homophobic like Putin and lawmakers. I did not follow that thread in politics. But clearly male skaters are held in much higher regard than in the United States , at least in this era.

I am curious too about the whole countrys reaction to these anti-gay laws.

Are LGBT people being targeted and scapegoated now? Are they going to be scapegoated the way jews were for so long in Russia? I cannot answer, but we have Russian members who likely can answer your query (no pun intended!)
 

Violet Bliss

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Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Do Russian comedians constantly mock and deride gay people with cheap jokes like the American "comedians"?
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I bet they do not, because it seems like between the laws, and openly making fun of gays, bashing and violence is likely on the rise in Russia. That could be googled to shed some light on the general mood of the Russian people. At first I thought the only sane response to Putin was boycotting the games, but athletes have worked all there lives for a shot at the gold ring.
 

spikydurian

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Do Russian comedians constantly mock and deride gay people with cheap jokes like the American "comedians"?
I wonder too?

It is unfortunate that Jay Leno see fit to 'joke about male figure skaters' in a manner thereby indirectly emphasising the importance of one's sexual orientation in that sport instead of figure skating skills.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013

sky_fly20

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Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Plushenko is the most popular figure skater in Russia of all time
even Slutskaya isn't even half as popular, the men are in a depleted field
but if they can find a new wonder boy like Zhenya, even in exchange of all the Russian ladies for a single male skater without hesitation
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
This terrifies me. Guy...is this is the new group to crucify? I wish Russians on boards will tell us what common people feel re male skaters and if there is a swell of hatred toward these people. I pray that man who said this evil thing is touched by God's love. The hatred he feels is terrifying. Only prayer and calming talking to such people can get a toe into their beliezfs.

I hope skaters like Weir and Boitano who are well protected carefully broach this in Russia. The world's scapegoating, genocide, ethnic cleansing didn't end 70 yrs ago in Germany-there were the Balkans, Rwanda, many more. Unless we guard our hearts against hatred,envy, pride we can become Putin-esque or his follower on this. I once did a paper for a religion course, talking about the influx of soviet jewery into usa in 70's. I interviewed many families who relocated to my city. They were not equals-life was even harder for them. It was a great experience for me to learn so much.

The huffpost link hit at my deep fear for minorities, and I'm a minority. As times grow worse, "they" will need scapegots.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The world is thankfully a different place and we are more cognizant of mistakes and atrocities in the past. Certain past dictators didn't have the Internet to deal with. Putin and his government can be vilified with a single snapshot of violence or ill actions. Boitano, as a US delegate is pretty much immune to whatever they do to him. I don't think he will demonstrate nor should he, but he and the other delegates will make some bold statements that will surely make Putin curl his lip. It's inevitable and a very deliberate decision to send King/Boitano.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
no its not, Figure Skating is a male associated or neutral at best because of Pairs/Ice Dance in Russia
its just now that ladies it has become of keen interest and with the media and attention seeker Sotnikova
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
as a US delegate is pretty much immune to whatever they do to him. I don't think he will demonstrate nor should he, but he and the other delegates will make some bold statements that will surely make Putin curl his lip. It's inevitable and a very deliberate decision to send King/Boitano.

next time I'll go to the US, I will raise placards/ disturbing images of the rape women victims in Iraq and bombed children in Afghanistan
sounds like a fair exchange, US is hosting Olympics or bidding in Oklahoma was it ? I bet I'll be labeled a terrorist and blacklisted forever

I bet the US wont dare send this same people at the World Cup in Dubai
where the gulf states are planning on implementing a lie detector for expatriates to determine who are homosexuals then to be deported
response will be dead silence :rolleye:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
(I'll leave out the political part of this discussion because we've covered it with much intensity elsewhere, except to say that the even worse anti-gay laws in Uganda are widely covered in U.S. newspapers right now, so anti-Russian sentiment isn't the issue. I'm going to concentrate on the issue of how male skaters are perceived in Russia.)

In terms of whether Russians assume male skaters to be "sissies" or unmanly the way so many North Americans do, I've always been under the impression that this did not apply, partly because of the ballet tradition. Russian/Soviet male dancers always seemed to be revered by the general public, and several who came to the U.S. to perform or to relocate clearly had heartthrob status. Longtime Bolshoi premier danseur Vladimir Vasiliev is a supreme example, a very powerful dancer who excelled as Spartacus. Another such was Alexander Godunov, who came to the U.S. and had, as well as a dance career, a brief but effective acting career as a film heartthrob. (He was especially effective in Witness, a splendid movie. My heart rate was very different whenever he was onscreen.) And of course there's Baryshnikov....still the cure for a slow pulse rate, even in his sixties. If I met him, I'd probably burble inarticulately.

As a skate fan, I always envied the Russians because they had their pick of young boys eager to train as pair skaters and ice dancers especially, and then later as men's singles skaters. Clearly there was no stigma on skating as an unmanly sport in Russia. Here in the U.S., by contrast, there were many really good girl skaters who eventually left the sport just because they couldn't find a worthy partner. (I often think of Tiffany Stiegler, for example.)

Shame on Jay Leno for making that kind of joke about skaters. I speak right now solely as a fan of skating, a sport I'm tired of seeing ridiculed as if it were some branch of fashion modeling. Years ago they did a physical test comparing some winter athlete or other--maybe a biathlete--and pairs skater Randy Gardner. In terms of strength and conditioning, Gardner won. Of course he did. He could lift his partner over his head, and Tai Babilonia was almost his height. The only thing a biathlete needs to lift is a rifle. (No disrespect meant to biathletes.)

This is an old perception in America. In movies, even our greatest dancers, Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly, felt they had to show that dancing was something guys did. Gene Kelly especially tried to make dance a working man's art form. He often dressed down in street clothes such as baseball caps, casual slacks, and T-shirts for his dances. I believe he once made a short film comparing the athletics of dance to the movements of a baseball player in action.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I agree its all about cultural, in the US boys are taught and raised to do only manly things whatever that means no cooking, dancing is for girls etc.
are brought up in rough and aggressive environment, you can see it everywhere in the media. male skaters are seen as sissies effeminate boys
maybe it could cultural folk dances are taught in Russia and children are familiar with it at a young age, there are as many males taking up figure skating in Russia whether for childhood sports, hobby or longtime career. The southern Russia is a bit different though with the caucasus and cossacks who might find male figure skating as shameful.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Thanks, Sky! I always thought that the folk dancing tradition might have something to do with Russia's enjoyment of related dance arts such as ballet and figure skating. Not only is there the idea that dancing is just as much a "guy thing" as sports, but many dances are done in rather ornate traditional ethnic costumes, which can predispose people to think that men wearing brightly colored clothes are entirely masculine (--and I agree).

By contrast, America's sensibilities come from uptight Anglo-Saxon puritans, who thought that dancing was not just unmanly but scandalous, and that emotional displays (except for anger, of course) were for--well, not for men, anyway. :)

I can also see that the southern tier of Russia might be entirely different from Slavic Russia; most of it is influenced by Central Asian traditions. (In fact, most of southern Russia is in Central Asia, come to think of it.) I imagine that many of the southern cultures' folk dances aren't even partner dances, as they are in Slavic Russia. Men and women dance separately.

Once, years ago, the Moisiev folk troupe came to the U.S., and my mom took me to see them. We were both transfixed by the foot-tapping music and the virtuosity of the dancers. I was a little kid, but I've never forgotten that exciting dancing. On a related topic: wasn't Katia Gordeyeva's father a member of a folk dance troupe?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
next time I'll go to the US, I will raise placards/ disturbing images of the rape women victims in Iraq and bombed children in Afghanistan
sounds like a fair exchange, US is hosting Olympics or bidding in Oklahoma was it ? I bet I'll be labeled a terrorist and blacklisted forever

I bet the US wont dare send this same people at the World Cup in Dubai
where the gulf states are planning on implementing a lie detector for expatriates to determine who are homosexuals then to be deported
response will be dead silence :rolleye:

You would be perfectly at liberty to protest atrocities by the US that are happening abroad, in a peaceful way, in the US. And the US isn't going to throw you in prison or deport you for expressing your views. Freedom of speech/right to protest and all that, especially if what you're protesting hold truth. And there are people who protest Afghanistan and such. However in Russia if you peacefully protest anti gay laws or even suggest gay people are normal, you will get arrested except during the Olympics when Putin and the IOC want to pretend that everything is fine and dandy ... everybody put on your fake non-homophobic smiles for the international cameras!

Also, that lie detector test to weed out homosexuals is stupidity at its finest... as ridiculous as when Ahmedinejad suggested that "Iran has no gays". :rolleye:
 

mielikki

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
No, men's skating isn't considered sissy or all-of-them-are-gays. Most famous Russian male skaters are married or even have reputation of womanizer. Some men may talk of figure skaters like "oh yes, he's a skater, women love him by default". And that is true. Girls will find you very interesting if you are in that sport - for them it means brave, strong, music loving and charismatic.
Russians will more likely think a ballet dancer is gay, than a figure skater. They have sort of a stereotype that show business, esp. pop singers are gay, but not sportsmen.
Note Sergei Voronov's FS costume (designed by his girlfriend, btw) is what Russians call gay. They don't like it.

Also... please, don't be angry at me, I'm just trying to explain...
Some Russians are really negative about homosexuals. But others, and I think the biggest part of them, don't like the idea, but may be OK with that side then it comes to the person; For example, many Russians like Freddie Mercury a lot, cause he was such a soulful singer, and that is what matters. Or Sir Ian McKellen. Or Stephen Fry. They respect Johnny Weir for his achievements in sport, though they laugh at his outfits. And believe it or not, some consider him very brave, besause he dared to come out and not hide who he is. Coming out in America is brave, imagine how brave and insane it seems in Russia.
To give some formula, being gay is considered a flaw, but if you are a great person and you are great professional, it may be ignored.
Remember in "The Fiddler on the Roof" one character tells Tevye - "You are a great man even though you are a Jew", same can be here. Nice person, even though homosexual.
Fine example: in Russian cover of "Living Next Door to Alice", a company of people is described, there are words
Here with us are Shura and Sergei,
He's a great guy, even though he's gay,
And Borya and Kolya today
Are somehow dressed in a doubtful way.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
As an American I hate saying this, but I find that Europeans (including Russians) are more cultured than Americans when it comes to appreciation of performing arts. I think a lot of athletic American men don't even consider figure skating as a sport to explore because of the gay stigma, wheres in many other places men may choose the sport because it is a natural fit for their body type (i.e. not too tall, lean build, etc.)
 
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