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Thread: Ladies and arm positions

  1. #1
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Ladies and arm positions

    I seem to find issue with the use of the arms if the Russian girls. Tukt and JuLip are very nontraditional, very busy, and very distracting. I am a fan of both for various reasons, but do not understand the use of the arms in such a distracting way. I wonder if this is a choreographic style we are seeing, or something to embellish on plain North American style as taught in basics from the beginning. The Japanese do not have any skater who uses her arms in such a manner either.

    I see such a disquieting, disconnect between upper and lower bodies. I think Julia would be far more effective as an artist if she used far les motion. Her hands are everywhere. It ruins the program. Tukt is similar though not as bad. I honestly do not get it and I wonder how Julia is getting these scores when her positions are either exploiting the quick gumby positions she can achieve. I honestly, sincerely, do not understand these arm movements and must go back and watch Makarova/leonova to see if it is everyone or just newbies.

    Any comments, explanations, reactions appreciated. Julia could be a very effective skater with her jump consistency, but the presentation is at times thoroughly too busy and downright annoying for me. She is not the only one, but she is someone being touted as a podium threat and many like her skating. ?

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    She has yet to develop a sophistication to her skating that others have but that should come with time and maturity. Cut her some slack.

    And it's very obvious that she is being touted as a medal threat as she is one of the only skaters on the Senior Circuit who can deliver a seven triple LP... it certainly isn't because she's one of the more artistic skaters. It is in the Russian style to embellish with the arms but restraint can be beautiful... I see Slutskaya's programs when she was younger and then later in her career and its a great example of how less can be more.

  3. #3
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    I cut Julip much slack. I hated the program initially, and refuse to believe they rus fed, her team are exploiting this heaven sent music as a few have opined.

    I just do not see why she isn't getting better choreo. I guess IJS is to blame. "Less is more." is dead. More is more, arm flailing,perpetual motion with no meaning is the style. Oh, my...it really is like watching whirling dervishes, I wonder how others feel watching this. It isn't beautiful movement.

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    To each their own... Some really love her arm movements. I'm personally okay with them. She has unrefined arms but she executes her elements well so overall I like her.

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    If I've learned anything about skating and ladies' arms this year, it's that:

    1) when the arms move about freely, it expresses positive emotions; i.e. friendliness, warmth, confidence, openness, etc.

    2) when they are kept close to the body, it expresses things like: vulnerability, doubt, fear, etc.

    There's nothing bad about using your arms to express anything. Just as long as there's a point to it. Don't flail them around for no reason, and use them to express the proper emotions at the proper times!

  6. #6
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    good points well made, ven.

  7. #7
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    I personally don't hate the way Julia uses her arms: she's not as sophisticated as Caro or Yu-Na, but not really "distracting". For me, Liza is VERY bad with her arms: when I saw her live last year, all I remember about her FS is "her arms were everywhere"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I see such a disquieting, disconnect between upper and lower bodies. I think Julia would be far more effective as an artist if she used far les motion. Her hands are everywhere. It ruins the program. Tukt is similar though not as bad. I honestly do not get it and I wonder how Julia is getting these scores when her positions are either exploiting the quick gumby positions she can achieve. I honestly, sincerely, do not understand these arm movements and must go back and watch Makarova/leonova to see if it is everyone or just newbies.
    Liza is NOWHERE near Julia in arm motions. Julia is acceptable for any age, just fine for her age. Not the most beautiful use of arms but she's not bad. To me, Liza is offensively bad. Look at her 2011 SP or any other program from her: her arms curl and uncurl and move all over the place with no purpose, and on occasion she attempts to accent every note but it just looks overdone and fussy. It might be unfair to talk about the way her arms look going into jumps, but they actually bother me there too. There is also a lack of versatility in the kinds of music she uses. It's fine to have one specific style, but she could try to go outside it. Julia has none of these problems and looks great for a skater of her age IMO.

    ETA: after watching a Plushenko program, I just realized that Liza gets some of it from Plushenko, or at least from the same source. Unfortunately, she's not Plushenko.

  9. #9
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    Well, arm movements are a COP requirement so I guess they tend to go overboard trying to satify it. When it's done well it can enrich the choreography, but when it's not you get flailing, writhing and windmilling. My vote for best arms - Yuna Kim and Fleur Maxwell. I also agree about Liza. Blame it on Mishin. That style may be remotely tolerable for Plushenko and co. but it's terrible for Liza. Such a shame because she has so much talent, fire and charisma. Julia's arms are fine. I'll take her over Gracie any day. Previously, her choreography and arm movements were pretty much irrelevant to the music, but she's improved so much this season. I don't see why she should be berated for "exploiting" her FS music. It's music that everyone has the right to use. Just because her team was clever enough to package her in a way to give the greatest emotional impact, which was an area that she was lacking in.

  10. #10
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Since the subject of using one's arms and hands was discussed in another thread, I thought this would fit in nicely here as well:
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    You using the word "statuesque" reminded me of a US commentator using that word for Lenka Kulovana in 1993:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMeIUy3D7o
    Like Kim Yu-Na and Carolina Kostner, she's tall with long legs and arms, and uses those to make the maximum out of every move. Sure, technically, 2x3T; 2x3S and 2x2A isn't mindbobbling, but I always had a soft spot for her sheer elegance. Look at how well she uses her arms and hands throughout the entire program.
    So I'd say some of today's top contender's coaches should be forced to watch this video - and learn from it!

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