Russian Dominance coming soon

desertskates · Jan 3, 2014

I think Julia L. will survive the puberty monster. She's 15 and listed at 5'2" which seems accurate. She may just be small framed like Sasha and not be destined to fill out much. I hope that she gets through the next couple of years. She's a truly lovely skater and I'll be excited to see what she becomes. I like Adelina, but to me, she just not as pleasing to the eye as Julia.

bsfan · Jan 3, 2014

RobinA said:
I don't know anything about sky's previous comments on weight issues, but I do notice that many skating fans are unwilling to acknowledge or confront directly the fact that normal weight for most ladies and figure skating success often do not go hand in hand. The fact is, many who would look quite healthy and slim on the street are of a weight, or at least weight distribution, that makes elite figure skating out of reach. As often happens when a former child dynamo develops a healthy adult female body.

Totally agree. I won't say any women on the street have weight issue because it doesn't matter. But as skaters, body weight is the load that they have to handle, very sensitive to their joints. Consistant jumps(and good movements) are more helpful for a skater's confident than not telling her that she has weight issue.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 3, 2014

I think that there isn't a "normal weight" for figure skaters either... the reason athletes develop eating disorders in skating/gymnastics/etc. is because they're pressured into thinking a more petite, slim frame is the ideal. Skaters like Ito and Harding and Rochette showed that you don't have to be a twig to do amazing jumps. Skaters should be healthy, but if their bodies change beyond their control, that's part of being human and isn't something that needs to be condemned or criticized. Clearly, Tuktamysheva isn't as slim as she once was, but that's what happens when girls grow up. She's still capable of 3-3 jumps, so to say she has weight issues (as if losing weight would magically solve her jump problems) is not only incorrect, but it paints this perception that you can't be an elite skater without a certain figure. It's also a ridiculous assumption to make as you're purely basing it on how she looks, and it's rather silly that some people think they know her body better than she does.

hanca · Jan 3, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
well Tuk is lucky because next year, she still has one more season to sort out her issues
the 15 year age rule will be implemented going to senior starting next season, so all the JGP finalists will not be eligible for seniors

Tuktamysheva is lucky? Not sure if you noticed, but there is still Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, Radionova, Pogorilaya, Gosviani, Artemeva and Leonova who will be eligible the next season, so even if those for JGP finalists are not, it is not like there is no one else to be sent to Europeans/ Worlds like a few years ago. They all managed to beat her at the nationals (except of Artemeva, but she was injured. (It was reported that she considered withdrawing before the nationals). And Stavitskaya did not qualify for nationals because she did only one Russian Cup event this season, the last one, because she was injured before that. But she won the event and she may have been pretty decent too. How lucky to have 'only' seven, maybe eight pretty decent competitors fighting for three spots for Europeans next season!

Mrs. P · Jan 3, 2014

My belief is that unless you are the doctor or nutritionist of the skater, no one really has the authority or right to comment on one's weight or figure.

desertskates · Jan 3, 2014

Mrs. P said:
My belief is that unless you are the doctor or nutritionist of the skater, no one really has the authority or right to comment on one's weight or figure.

Exactly. Unless they take center ice with a giant beer gut and a slice of pizza in each hand, the weight fluctuations of these young ladies shouldn't be much of a topic, imho.

hanca · Jan 3, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I think that there isn't a "normal weight" for figure skaters either... the reason athletes develop eating disorders in skating/gymnastics/etc. is because they're pressured into thinking a more petite, slim frame is the ideal. Skaters like Ito and Harding and Rochette showed that you don't have to be a twig to do amazing jumps. Skaters should be healthy, but if their bodies change beyond their control, that's part of being human and isn't something that needs to be condemned or criticized. Clearly, Tuktamysheva isn't as slim as she once was, but that's what happens when girls grow up. She's still capable of 3-3 jumps, so to say she has weight issues (as if losing weight would magically solve her jump problems) is not only incorrect, but it paints this perception that you can't be an elite skater without a certain figure. It's also a ridiculous assumption to make as you're purely basing it on how she looks, and it's rather silly that some people think they know her body better than she does.

:agree:

Jedi · Jan 3, 2014

hanca said:
:agree:

Rochette was pretty muscular but pretty slim if you look at her - take a look at her in that Olympic short program outfit she is pretty lean

Witt had more curves. Of course there is the " Asian" think build that is good for jumping (not to be racist) Let's reword it to lean and thin and not overly muscular - Yamaguch kwan Mao Kim and all.

gmyers · Jan 3, 2014

hanca said:
That's not true. No one dropped her. The fact that she finished so low at the Russian nationals is no proof that she was dropped by their Federation. The competition was so fierce; there were too many very great ladies, with seven triples in their FS. Out of 18 ladies at Russian nationals, only three did not do 3-3 combination in their SP. Only four did 3T-3T, the remaining 11 have 3Lz-3T or 3F-3T!

It is natural that they can't get all medals; someone will finish higher and someone lower. If something, I think Liza was quite 'gifted' during the nationals. For example, Artemeva had a clean SP with 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A and a reasonably high level of spins and finished 11th after the SP! Not saying that she was robbed, the others were just better. Liza finished higher than her in the SP, with a fall in her SP. That's called lucky.

I say she was dropped because unlike last year she did not have pcs in the fs that was up there with the leaders and I think that wasn't just because she fell or singled a jump but because she bombed the sp and did the exact same programs and everyone of the judges is seeing stagnant same old problems tuktamisheva.

sky_fly20 · Jan 3, 2014

hanca said:
Tuktamysheva is lucky? Not sure if you noticed, but there is still Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, Radionova, Pogorilaya, Gosviani, Artemeva and Leonova who will be eligible the next season, so even if those for JGP finalists are not, it is not like there is no one else to be sent to Europeans/ Worlds like a few years ago. They all managed to beat her at the nationals (except of Artemeva, but she was injured. (It was reported that she considered withdrawing before the nationals). And Stavitskaya did not qualify for nationals because she did only one Russian Cup event this season, the last one, because she was injured before that. But she won the event and she may have been pretty decent too. How lucky to have 'only' seven, maybe eight pretty decent competitors fighting for three spots for Europeans next season!

Gosviani who ? she is a bigger headcase than Tuk and her jump technique is odd, look at her 3-3 jumps
Artimieva didnt even get a GP assignment and I doubt she'll get one, she has'nt been to any big events or Europeans

the Top 3 may still be Adelina, Julia and Elena in the coming seasons
but there is still room for Tuk with only Leonova and Anna as direct competitors
the other junior girls wont be a threat until 2015 or 2016

hanca · Jan 3, 2014

gmyers said:
I say she was dropped because unlike last year she did not have pcs in the fs that was up there with the leaders and I think that wasn't just because she fell or singled a jump but because she bombed the sp and did the exact same programs and everyone of the judges is seeing stagnant same old problems tuktamisheva.

What a rubbish. she fell whereas the ones before her manage to stay upright. Whatever excuses you are making that she was dropped; the truth is that she was outskated. There is no denying that she is a talented figure skater, but unfortunately in a country with so many talented skaters, only the nest of the best will be at the top. In the majority of counties she would have one their nationals. My country would love to have someone like her! But at this moment, it is not enough in Russia. And she won't be held up if she doesn't deliver. But that doesn't mean that she was dropped. All it means is that at that particular competition she unfortunately did not deliver.

hanca · Jan 3, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
Gosviani who ? she is a bigger headcase than Tuk and her jump technique is odd, look at her 3-3 jumps
Artimieva didnt even get a GP assignment and I doubt she'll get one, she has'nt been to any big events or Europeans

the Top 3 may still be Adelina, Julia and Elena in the coming seasons
but there is still room for Tuk with only Leonova and Anna as direct competitors
the other junior girls wont be a threat until 2015 or 2016

Gosviani beat Tuktamysheva at the nationals and is one of the alternates for the Europeans. Unlike Tuktamysheva.

Artemeva did not GP assignment because she is this season's discovery. She hasn't been to any big competitions, but if she wins two seniors B competitions, she may have enough points to get one assignment the next season and then it depends on her...

sky_fly20 · Jan 3, 2014

hanca said:
Gosviani beat Tuktamysheva at the nationals and is one of the alternates for the Europeans. Unlike Tuktamysheva.

Artemeva did not GP assignment because she is this season's discovery. She hasn't been to any big competitions, but if she wins two seniors B competitions, she may have enough points to get one assignment the next season and then it depends on her...

Gosviani's score was inflated she'll get lower PCS than Tuk in a GP

Artimieva is 20 years old, hardly a new discovery
she just like Menshov just got a little consistent lately that is all

senior eligibles for GP:
* Julia, Adelina, Elena, Anna, Nikol and Alena
I don't see how Tuk can't compete with that yet

Sotskova, Sakhanovich, Medvedeva, Proklova wont be in the senior scene until 2015 or 2016

RABID · Jan 3, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I think that there isn't a "normal weight" for figure skaters either... the reason athletes develop eating disorders in skating/gymnastics/etc. is because they're pressured into thinking a more petite, slim frame is the ideal. Skaters like Ito and Harding and Rochette showed that you don't have to be a twig to do amazing jumps. Skaters should be healthy, but if their bodies change beyond their control, that's part of being human and isn't something that needs to be condemned or criticized. Clearly, Tuktamysheva isn't as slim as she once was, but that's what happens when girls grow up. She's still capable of 3-3 jumps, so to say she has weight issues (as if losing weight would magically solve her jump problems) is not only incorrect, but it paints this perception that you can't be an elite skater without a certain figure. It's also a ridiculous assumption to make as you're purely basing it on how she looks, and it's rather silly that some people think they know her body better than she does.

Hard to believe someone would take issue with Rochette's physique. Not an ounce of fat and a magnificent back.:yes:

Barb · Jan 3, 2014

RobinA said:
I don't know anything about sky's previous comments on weight issues, but I do notice that many skating fans are unwilling to acknowledge or confront directly the fact that normal weight for most ladies and figure skating success often do not go hand in hand. The fact is, many who would look quite healthy and slim on the street are of a weight, or at least weight distribution, that makes elite figure skating out of reach. As often happens when a former child dynamo develops a healthy adult female body.

The thing is that Liza is not overweight even for figure skating,SHE IS NOT, if she has weight issues so Ashley W., Agnes, Leonova, Mirai and a lot of skaters have weight issues too. They are only muscular people, in fact I saw Mao in live twice and she is slim but not too much, she has muscular legs and Yuna`s legs are even more muscular than Mao´s. My sister is 24yo and she is so thin like Julia and I think Julia is one the thinnest skaters but she is only 15 yo. I mean I know thinner people in real life than in figure skating. figure skaters looks very normal in real life, I watched to Mao, Anna Cappellini, Maia S., Ashley W., Tatiana V., etc , the only one looked extremely thin was Maryl D. but very muscular too. So, no, figure skaters don´t need look sick thin to be succesful.

ForeverFish · Jan 3, 2014

Last summer, TSL addressed the critics of Kaetlyn Osmond's off-season weight in one of their videos. Dave Lease mentioned that his coach, a Russian woman, said that the Russian fed would "Never take [Kaetlyn] ... because she'll never be skinny like Elena Radionova or Kim Yuna."

There you have sky_fly20's perception of the ideal figure skater figure in a nutshell: you either have to be a prepubescent girl, or an Asian woman (who are naturally quite slim -- I'm an Asian woman, and I would know). So power skaters like Ashley Wagner are doomed, right? :rolleye:

gmyers · Jan 3, 2014

Surprised because a Russian coach must know slutskaya or sees her as exception that proves the rule.

gmyers · Jan 3, 2014

hanca said:
What a rubbish. she fell whereas the ones before her manage to stay upright. Whatever excuses you are making that she was dropped; the truth is that she was outskated. There is no denying that she is a talented figure skater, but unfortunately in a country with so many talented skaters, only the nest of the best will be at the top. In the majority of counties she would have one their nationals. My country would love to have someone like her! But at this moment, it is not enough in Russia. And she won't be held up if she doesn't deliver. But that doesn't mean that she was dropped. All it means is that at that particular competition she unfortunately did not deliver.

Number one I feel she dropped herself and its rare that skaters are dropped before they have dropped themselves. But however I feel that judges can push.

hanca · Jan 3, 2014

gmyers said:
Number one I feel she dropped herself and its rare that skaters are dropped before they have dropped themselves. But however I feel that judges can push.

Judges can push, but they can't perform miracles. If someone can't keep upright, it may be a bit difficult to push her high enough that she can represent Russia. And why would they do it? Why would they send someone who didn't earn it instead of someone who skated better at nationals? When you say that she was dropped, you are implying that she was pushed down. She was not. She just was not ridiculously kept up. The judges were fair and decided to send the person who deserves it based on nationals; not to push someone up only because a year ago she skated well at nationals and two years ago she skated well at GP events. I think they still were gentle with her; she could have finished after SP below Artemeva who skated clean. So she was in fact gifted a bit; she got some benefit of doubt, just not as huge as Patrick Chan.

Russian Dominance coming soon

desertskates

bsfan

CanadianSkaterGuy

hanca

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

desertskates

hanca

Jedi

gmyers

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

hanca

hanca

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

RABID

Barb

ForeverFish

gmyers

gmyers

hanca

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