Fan vs Fanatic | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Fan vs Fanatic

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
And whether people like it or not, I have seen rather a lot of comments on Japanese, Chinese and Korean skater videos that are racially motivated from people of any of the three countries. They abuse each other quite roundly.

And there are homophobic trolls or religious trolls that post nasty comments on every video of male figure skaters, particularly Americans; they also dislike the videos. It's an unfortunate fact.

Play with the trolls, but don't take them seriously; some people are just *******s.
 
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thinspread

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
OK everyone.
I guess I didn't expect this to turn into a whodunnit. But thanks for the input anyway.
Just to be clear: as I said, "I don't even want to suspect or fingerpoint at any particular fanbase for now having found a new target in Akiko".

Well, that sounds a bit irresponsible to me. It was you who needlessly mentioned Kim-Asada fan war in your original post while discussing a video of Suzuki competing at nationals, which really has nothing to with Kim-Asada thing.

Couldn't it be some overzealous Asada fans for now having found a new target in Suzuki (using your phrase) since she beat Asada at their nationals, with the score higher than anything Asada has earned so far in their nationals or internationally?
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
So many dislikes of a good performance only mean that The skater is really good and some fans of other skater are afraid of her. So Akiko shouldn't feel bad, she is on The top three of The world:biggrin:. Fans given dislikes to that kind of performances are ridiculous.
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
It seems to me that Mao fans are hitting the dislike button, for getting a score that even Mao never got. As said already, Yuna fans have no interest in this.

That's funny considering that one video of Akiko's performance had some people in the comments raving about how Akiko was so much better than Mao, but definitely not better than Yuna. So no, quite a few of Yuna's fans did have interest, no matter what you say. lol.
 

mikeko666

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Why would Korean fans be overzealous about the outcome of Japanese nationals, about Suzuki beating Asada or vice versa? Doesn't make sense to me. As said, most Korean fans were generally moved by Suzuki finally winning her first national title in her final season.

Read those comments using Google translation. Some of them made by Korean users are not nice. They are not only criticizing her FS score but also her appearance. Of course, there are some nice comments by Koreans. Kim fans have generally been nice to Suzuki, and were especially sympathetic to her when she lost 2012 NHK to Asada, until the Nationals when they realized that she could be a threat to Kim in Sochi if she can repeat the performance.

Asada fans were really nice to Suzuki four years ago when she was no threat to Asada. Suzuki only received junior level PCS back then. It completely changed two years ago when Suzuki beat Asada at NHK.
 

thinspread

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Read those comments using Google translation. Some of them made by Korean users are not nice. They are not only criticizing her FS score but also her appearance. Of course, there are some nice comments by Koreans. Kim fans have generally been nice to Suzuki, and were especially sympathetic to her when she lost 2012 NHK to Asada, until the Nationals when they realized that she could be a threat to Kim in Sochi if she can repeat the performance.

Asada fans were really nice to Suzuki four years ago when she was no threat to Asada. Suzuki only received junior level PCS back then. It completely changed two years ago when Suzuki beat Asada at NHK.

That sounds pretty fair. I haven't bothered to peruse the comments on that Suzuki video. So I'll take your words as true. There are nasty people on every side. But yes, I think it's true Korean fans are generally fond of Suzuki. Skating fans around me are, too.
 

Matilda

Medalist
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
I think there is definitely a distinction between a fan and a fanatic--the fanatics seem to think that putting down a rival skater is ok, while the fans focus on following and cheering the skating and life of the skater(s) whose fans they are. Fans often like other skaters, too, and love the sport in general--I'm not sure that the fanatics actually like skating so much...

The fanatics seem to thrive on throwing themselves into a discussion about the rival skater(s) (lots of examples on this and other skating forums, unfortunately), and can get really nasty. They also tend not be able to take any critique of the skater(s) whose fans they are--whether justified or not--and presume that any critique is a personal attack on that/those skater(s).

Then there are, of course, skating fans who never have anything positive to say about certain skaters, not necessarily because they are rivals of a skater/skaters they like, but because they for some reason do not like that particular skater (and this may have little to do with the skating and more to do with the personality or style of that skater). I don't get this either. Criticize the judging, politicking, the skater's technique, musicality, or performance, etc., but could we please stop calling a skater "ugly", "fat", "too effeminate", etc.? There should be room in the skating world for skaters of different looks, styles, energy, and personality--the differences just make the sport more interesting, imo.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I think there is definitely a distinction between a fan and a fanatic--the fanatics seem to think that putting down a rival skater is ok, while the fans focus on following and cheering the skating and life of the skater(s) whose fans they are. Fans often like other skaters, too, and love the sport in general--I'm not sure that the fanatics actually like skating so much...

The fanatics seem to thrive on throwing themselves into a discussion about the rival skater(s) (lots of examples on this and other skating forums, unfortunately), and can get really nasty. They also tend not be able to take any critique of the skater(s) whose fans they are--whether justified or not--and presume that any critique is a personal attack on that/those skater(s).

Then there are, of course, skating fans who never have anything positive to say about certain skaters, not necessarily because they are rivals of a skater/skaters they like, but because they for some reason do not like that particular skater (and this may have little to do with the skating and more to do with the personality or style of that skater). I don't get this either. Criticize the judging, politicking, the skater's technique, musicality, or performance, etc., but could we please stop calling a skater "ugly", "fat", "too effeminate", etc.? There should be room in the skating world for skaters of different looks, styles, energy, and personality--the differences just make the sport more interesting, imo.

Well said
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Real question (because I am in some ways a knucklehead when it comes to the finer points of social media): what happens if a Youtube video gets a lot of dislikes? Anything?

On Topic: these "dislikers" annoy me greatly. Anonymous judging strikes again. This was one of the highlight performances of the season thus far, and I am glad that Akiko is finally getting the recognition she deserves.

Nevertheless, I don't believe it is very useful to "guess" the profile of the miscreants. Are they Maobots who fear Akiko's usurpation of the Japan #1 slot? Are they Yuna fans who feel that Akiko's scores don't deserve to be that close to Yuna's? Maybe even Juliabots and Adelinabots and Carobots who see Akiko's score as a clear and present danger to their girls' podium chances? So many possible perpetrators, such tantalizing motives, but no smoking guns and so little time, my dear Watson. :laugh: In the absence of verifiable facts, such speculations probably reveal more about the prejudices and anxieties of the speculators themselves than anything else.
 

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
I just felt like I could do with a nice "happy feeling" moment and decided to treat myself with watching Akiko Suzuki's recent Nationals FS on youtube again. Yup, that makes me smile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgLvbzDQsM
The mood I was hoping for didn't settle in because I unfortunately noticed the "like / dislike" count. Currently, it's 703 like and 697 dislike.
Not only did I not get my happy smile, I actually feel a lump in my throat now at the notion that fragile little Akiko might learn of that. :frown: (insert "I wanna throw up" smilie here)
I noticed over the past years of the Mao vs Yu-Na rivalry how there were (imo disgusting) people who made it their hobby / borderline full-time job to post youtube videos, not to show how great their idol is, but to smear the opponent. Say she's ugly, has no talent, is overrated, nobody likes her, she eats little children for breakfast (I haven't come across this one, but I'm sure there is somewhere), etc.
Really disgusting stuff.
It felt so wrong to me, and just plain alien to what "being a fan" means to me, that I couldn't really process this and kind of moved on to other things.

I'm aware that my notion of "being a fan" doesn't have to apply to everybody else.
I'm aware that some fans become really fanatic about supporting their idol.
I'm aware of the hostile past between Japan and Korea.
I can - to a certain degree - understand the frustration of feeling one's idol not being recognized enough, like saying: "my idol has the best spins." It's another thing to say "look at his/her opponent's spin, it's so ugly and got too many points". I can understand saying this on a forum like this one.
But how does all that other stuff happen? The extreme stuff?

I don't even want to suspect or fingerpoint at any particular fanbase for now having found a new target in Akiko, but I guess having 700 dislikes for that performance doesn't come from 700 people disliking that performance, but rather them prefering another one, or - let's face it - trying to get to her.
Yeah, let's hit on her knee with a steel pole! Sorry, but to me, if some fanbase actively decided to do that, then it's just as malicious.

Any comments? Explanations?
Maybe one of the 697 who clicked on "dislike" and would like to open a line of communication?
As well as being a fan of YuNa's I am also a fan of Angelina Jolie. The same dysfunction surrounding YuNa and Mao applies there as well. The predominant conversations amongst fans on certain discussion boards seems to be about insulting other stars. Celebrating the actual woman seems to be an afterthought. I recall a few years back when Sara Palin emerged on the scene some fan of hers started a discussion board. The board quickly descended into a negative hate-fest about Obama and Sara Palin became an afterthought. (by the way this in no way reflects any opinion of mine about her and I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE TAKEN AS AN INVITATION FOR POLITICAL DISCUSSION). Perhaps if people had to write a letter, mail it, and hope some newspaper editor would approve it for publishing people would be less inclined to give full reign to their negative impulses. As well as being a marvelous tool for connecting with each other and the world at large the internet also seems to encourage our more baser impulses.:disapp:
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Real question (because I am in some ways a knucklehead when it comes to the finer points of social media): what happens if a Youtube video gets a lot of dislikes? Anything?

On Topic: these "dislikers" annoy me greatly. Anonymous judging strikes again. This was one of the highlight performances of the season thus far, and I am glad that Akiko is finally getting the recognition she deserves.

Nevertheless, I don't believe it is very useful to "guess" the profile of the miscreants. Are they Maobots who fear Akiko's usurpation of the Japan #1 slot? Are they Yuna fans who feel that Akiko's scores don't deserve to be that close to Yuna's? Maybe even Juliabots and Adelinabots and Carobots who see Akiko's score as a clear and present danger to their girls' podium chances? So many possible perpetrators, such tantalizing motives, but no smoking guns and so little time, my dear Watson. :laugh: In the absence of verifiable facts, such speculations probably reveal more about the prejudices and anxieties of the speculators themselves than anything else.

You forgot about Akikobots... if Chapis's theory is true! It is the perfect way to show others are jealous and therefore you are now proper legit threat. Wow who'd thought the thumb up and down icon on youtube can mean so many things.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see where some of those dislikes came from by just looking at the comments. Several Korean fans have commented about how ugly she is...Seriously?! Another fan states that Japanese people have an inferiority complex. What does that have to do with anything?!

That said, there are plenty of Korean fans who also said some nice comments, so I'm not saying ALL Korean fans are like this.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see where some of those dislikes came from by just looking at the comments. Several Korean fans have commented about how ugly she is...Seriously?! Another fan states that Japanese people have an inferiority complex. What does that have to do with anything?!

That said, there are plenty of Korean fans who also said some nice comments, so I'm not saying ALL Korean fans are like this.

Unfortunately there're a few rotten apples from every apple tree, but that doesn't stop me liking apples or appreciate the beauty of the tree. Or worse thinking all apples are rotten and oranges are the only fruit.

Lesson: Life is about balance. Have your apple pie, but also have your fruit salads and other vegetables too :)
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see where some of those dislikes came from by just looking at the comments. Several Korean fans have commented about how ugly she is...Seriously?! Another fan states that Japanese people have an inferiority complex. What does that have to do with anything?!

That said, there are plenty of Korean fans who also said some nice comments, so I'm not saying ALL Korean fans are like this.

They are truly awful. :disapp: Akiko is such a beautiful skater. She doesn't deserve this. No one does. I only hope that if she, unfortunately, were to come across these comments that she realizes how irrelevant those naysayers are as they aren't even making any logical arguments. If anything, I laugh and then feel sorry for them. If they're this pathetic online, then how pathetic are they in their daily lives?
 

mielikki

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
I think here we can use the notion of antifan. Like, someone's professional hater))
Fans spend their time following a skater's career, going to competitions, watching the vids, reading interviews, discussing on boards, sometimes creating fanstuff like banners, fanarts, clips, etc. It's a pleasure to fill your time with your favourite skaters.
Yet some guys, I bet you saw them, for some reason find it smart to waste their time hating - obsessively post on boards how disgusting a skater is, argue with his/her fans (they may call it trolling), leave offensive comments at Youtube videos of this skater, of course dislike (I guess often without even watching). Or they search for doubtful statement in the interviews, and laugh that "oh look, she mixed up alpacas and llamas, she's so ignorant and stupid". Such people may take time and create some stuff to ridicule the one they hate, like take a bad fall pic and add some presumably funny caption, and so on.
Perhaps these activities make antifans happy, or they consider they make the world aware of what is, in their opinion, the real state of things. It's just the agressive human nature, yet I still sometimes stare at the comments like "her face is sooo ugly and her music choise is tasteless as usual" and it makes me wonder whether the one who wrote this is now proud and the day has not gone in vain for him.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Unfortunately there're a few rotten apples from every apple tree, but that doesn't stop me liking apples or appreciate the beauty of the tree. Or worse thinking all apples are rotten and oranges are the only fruit.

Lesson: Life is about balance. Have your apple pie, but also have your fruit salads and other vegetables too :)

First of all, did you not see the sentence where I said, that I know that not all Korean fans are like this?

But I think it's important to call a spade a spade. And using your analogy, I think its worth noting there is a bushel of apples, ie a pesky contingent of Korean fans who, for whatever reason, are splashing the YouTube video full of cruel comments.
 

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
First of all, did you not see the sentence where I said, that I know that not all Korean fans are like this?

But I think it's important to call a spade a spade. And using your analogy, I think its worth noting there is a bushel of apples, ie a pesky contingent of Korean fans who, for whatever reason, are splashing the YouTube video full of cruel comments.

C'mon now, have a visit to some YuNa vids posted by some Japanese anti-fans (the comments are in Japanese (thank-you google translation)) talking about how she isn't liked by other skaters, how she cheats, how they go beyond reason to smear EVERYTHING about her. And then I read some of the responses to those comments that are just as vile and just as racist; eventually one realizes something else is going on here, something tribal and ugly. These things aren't about the skaters in question and if a skater takes these things to heart then they need to have a good talking to.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Nevertheless, I don't believe it is very useful to "guess" the profile of the miscreants. Are they Maobots who fear Akiko's usurpation of the Japan #1 slot? Are they Yuna fans who feel that Akiko's scores don't deserve to be that close to Yuna's? Maybe even Juliabots and Adelinabots and Carobots who see Akiko's score as a clear and present danger to their girls' podium chances? So many possible perpetrators, such tantalizing motives, but no smoking guns and so little time, my dear Watson. :laugh: In the absence of verifiable facts, such speculations probably reveal more about the prejudices and anxieties of the speculators themselves than anything else.

all of the above :scowl:
 

skatingfan4ever

"Our blade takes us in the most amazing places."
Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Country
United-States
I think there is definitely a distinction between a fan and a fanatic--the fanatics seem to think that putting down a rival skater is ok, while the fans focus on following and cheering the skating and life of the skater(s) whose fans they are. Fans often like other skaters, too, and love the sport in general--I'm not sure that the fanatics actually like skating so much...

The fanatics seem to thrive on throwing themselves into a discussion about the rival skater(s) (lots of examples on this and other skating forums, unfortunately), and can get really nasty. They also tend not be able to take any critique of the skater(s) whose fans they are--whether justified or not--and presume that any critique is a personal attack on that/those skater(s).

Then there are, of course, skating fans who never have anything positive to say about certain skaters, not necessarily because they are rivals of a skater/skaters they like, but because they for some reason do not like that particular skater (and this may have little to do with the skating and more to do with the personality or style of that skater). I don't get this either. Criticize the judging, politicking, the skater's technique, musicality, or performance, etc., but could we please stop calling a skater "ugly", "fat", "too effeminate", etc.? There should be room in the skating world for skaters of different looks, styles, energy, and personality--the differences just make the sport more interesting, imo.
:agree::yes: I've found that comment sections as a whole are pointless to read. I've read nasty comments about my favorite skaters before and it's so frustrating. I've come to the point now where I don't even read the comments. I go online to enjoy the video/article/whatever, not to read what others are posting about it. Sometimes I still do it, from habit, but then I tell myself to stop. Even on GS, I've gotten to the point where I don't even open threads if I think they could turn too negative. Maybe that's just my personality though. I've always taken this old adage to heart: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." I mainly post online about things that I enjoy or that make me happy. I like to hang out in the Fan Fest section here where people stay positive all the time. Am I the only one who is like this?

Like what you like and don't worry about the rest.
AMEN TO THAT!!! :agree::bow:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
C'mon now, have a visit to some YuNa vids posted by some Japanese anti-fans (the comments are in Japanese (thank-you google translation)) talking about how she isn't liked by other skaters, how she cheats, how they go beyond reason to smear EVERYTHING about her. And then I read some of the responses that are just as vile and just as racist; eventually one realizes something else is going on here, something tribal and ugly. These things aren't about the skaters in question and if a skater takes these things to heart then they need to have a good talking to.

I'm against cruel comments, regarded who its directed to. The Akiko video was the subject in question, so that was what I'm commenting on. But of course, I think its unacceptable the stupid comments/YouTube videos that Japanese fans (or "fans") post as well.

I don't think the skaters are taking it to heart or even reading the comments, but I'm just commenting on the stupidity of some people. :disapp:

As someone that has an interest in K-pop and Korean pop culture, it amazes me the amount of vitriol that people say about a rival band or even a rival K-drama character. It is completely unnecessary. Like what you like and don't worry about the rest.
 
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