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Thread: Yuna Kim's short and long programs

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    HalfTriple, I don't know if there will be minor adjustments, who knows. They made slight fixes last year before WCs that really paid off. What major change can they do at this point? None, and it's not like the program is bad. It will get all the points and hopefully win the gold medal, even if it's not my favorite. I've come to terms with it, maybe I will be presently surprised at Sochi and fall in love all over again. On the other hand, so far her final program seemed anti-climactic for me, leaves me sad, but I still have Gershwin and Les Mis, Send in the Clowns and Danse Macabre (among others) to fawn over for years to come.

    Btw like you, I had never heard the music before but when I saw the program I just *knew* something was missing. I had to think about it quite a lot, but eventually I discovered the problem. In the original unedited music that was used, there is a building sadness in the music that really reaches a powerful emotional moment right before ina bauer. Unfortunately that part of the music got left out. The cut they went with leaves the program feeling (to me at least) like it just goes from segment to segment without much meaning. Feels like such a letdown for me personally, I think this could have been a really deep and emotional performance like we've never seen from Yuna before. I will keep my fingers crossed, who knows what we will see in Sochi, but I'm sure she will give her best either way.
    My criticism is based on Kim and her character in the past as a perfectionist ; it has nothing to do with competition. I don't think Kim is particularly vulnerable because of this disjoint in her program; whether it's perfectly choreo or not, 90% of Kim would be enough to win in any competition. I am sure Kim knows the issue, but for some unknown reason she seems unable to settle with this piece. In fact this is pretty damn difficult piece that few would even dare to skate to. in that regard, I respect her decision. I wonder if she ever considered this for short rather than free.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTriple View Post
    I wonder if she ever considered this for short rather than free.
    Actually I wish the time limit could be a little longer. I feel like there's not enough time to properly express the program.

    Or-- I would need to play around with the music on editor and see if I could make a cut that would fit under 4:10. Too lazy for that since I'm not getting paid

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Actually I wish the time limit could be a little longer. I feel like there's not enough time to properly express the program.

    Or-- I would need to play around with the music on editor and see if I could make a cut that would fit under 4:10. Too lazy for that since I'm not getting paid
    What she is not aware, as I audaciously assume, is that this music is different from her last Les Miserables. In fact she can skate to Send in the Clown almost exactly she did in Les M. virtually without any change. Both are stringed music, and the kind of move she did in Les M. can be compatible but Adios N. is a unique program. Something inventive and delicate, rather than explicit expression, intricacy and nuance are the key. of course how to draw these elements are head-splitting agony while executing all the elements.

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    I'm sure Yuna and David are aware, they are professionals and made creative choices. I just don't happen to agree this time. I think to really bring out the performance in Adiós Nonino you need a deep and moving interpretation. What a performance it could have been, coming from a 23 year old woman who has matured beyond her years since that teenage girl we got to know in the last quad.

    My sadness about the program is because it feels the approach is cavalier, like we are getting something we've already seen from Yuna years before, just different music playing in the background. Lackluster is a good word.

    BUT, I reserve the right to change my mind depending on the final product. It's not over until it's over, and we'll know next month at Sochi. I will keep my fingers crossed until then.

    No matter what, we got Send in the Clowns this year, which is at least one more program I can watch over and over again.

  5. #485
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    sorry i felt like her les mis program is overrated... yeah.. the music cut is more relatable.. but in terms of choreography it was underwhelming..in other words it was generic.. at least yuna is trying to get out of her comfort zone this time and taking a risk with the music they used for adios.. it's complex and hard to grasp.. but when you look at the choreography it takes a lot to appreciate it..

    the only reason why some are considered les mis a better program was because she skated clean to it twice..

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    HalfTriple, here's another idea. I mentioned in the Euro's thread I thought Julia just attacks, attacks, attacks in her FS. It comes off monotonous to me. There's no interpretation at all. I get the feeling watching her that her approach is -- if she just grits her teeth and tries harder on the next element, the audience will be moved (like that counts for interpretation?). She is young so it's not surprising she would think that way.

    In Adiós Nonino, Yuna kind of gave the same vibe, but in a more advanced way. I didn't realize before, but now the idea resonates with me. In the same way that Julia just attacks, attacks, attacks element after element, I feel that Yuna just floats from music note to music note. Oh, an element? There, it's done. Almost without will it's done and better than anyone else in the world. The elements just get in the way while she floats from one note to the next.

    I'm not sure I like that though in Adiós Nonino. I think the music is too deep and requires more emotional focus. There's a depth that I long for when I watch the program, whereas in Gershwin, floating from one note to the next worked really well. I do think Yuna has been working harder on presentation since Nationals so she might still have some surprise for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    sorry i felt like her les mis program is overrated... yeah.. the music cut is more relatable.. but in terms of choreography it was underwhelming.
    I thought the choreography in the middle was a bit generic, but at the end? Wow it was really good, the last choreo sequence in Les Mis was way better than the last choreo sequence in Adiós Nonino, just my opinion.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I thought the choreography in the middle was a bit generic, but at the end? Wow it was really good, the last choreo sequence in Les Mis was way better than the last choreo sequence in Adiós Nonino, just my opinion.
    that's your opinion but there's nothing interesting in les mis's program at all.. les mis was skated clean twice so obviously you can say it is better.. if adios is clean and yuna put more fire into it i believe adios is better overall than les mis..

  9. #489
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    Her programs are always out of this world for me.

    If i were a skater, not in this life, i would love to have her programs. hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    HalfTriple, here's another idea. I mentioned in the Euro's thread I thought Julia just attacks, attacks, attacks in her FS. It comes off monotonous to me. There's no interpretation at all. I get the feeling watching her that her approach is -- if she just grits her teeth and tries harder on the next element, the audience will be moved (like that counts for interpretation?). She is young so it's not surprising she would think that way.

    In Adiós Nonino, Yuna kind of gave the same vibe, but in a more advanced way. I didn't realize before, but now the idea resonates with me. In the same way that Julia just attacks, attacks, attacks element after element, I feel that Yuna just floats from music note to music note. Oh, an element? There, it's done. Almost without will it's done and better than anyone else in the world. The elements just get in the way while she floats from one note to the next.

    I'm not sure I like that though in Adiós Nonino. I think the music is too deep and requires more emotional focus. There's a depth that I long for when I watch the program, whereas in Gershwin, floating from one note to the next worked really well. I do think Yuna has been working harder on presentation since Nationals so she might still have some surprise for us.
    I hear you. Julia's skating has no other choice because of her inherent limit; that's all she can do and best she can do. what do you expect from a 15 year old? If we desire more out of her, that would be a grave sin. What Julia is doing right now is already incredible considering her age and her bodyline, which I mentioned in other thread. Actually I recommended people to watch Asada in 2005 GPF, and compare Julia and Asada, then you will know what junior skating means and why it matters. By the way what a brilliant genius Asada was at 15!

    but I wouldn't say Kim is doing meaningless attack after attack. She in fact trying to present the program in a different interpretive mode , which is not agreeable to some of us. that's a fair saying. It just happened to me right now. I guess Adios N. is pretty darn difficult as a competitive program if she faithfully interprets the way it should. well just my guess. The music cut itself doesn't have distinct climax like Gershwin. correct me if I am wrong.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    sorry i felt like her les mis program is overrated... yeah.. the music cut is more relatable.. but in terms of choreography it was underwhelming..in other words it was generic.. at least yuna is trying to get out of her comfort zone this time and taking a risk with the music they used for adios.. it's complex and hard to grasp.. but when you look at the choreography it takes a lot to appreciate it..

    the only reason why some are considered les mis a better program was because she skated clean to it twice..

    Haha, allow me to disagree on that. Yeah Les M's choreo might be generic, but we don't have to expect some fancy from a program when it comes to music interpretation, I think. Simplicity is beauty. I too think there is some redundant arm movement lately in Kim's choreo, because I believe nuance is one of the best assets. By the way for me, Les. M. the most extraordinary piece I have ever seen. Perhaps it's music is so influential, but yeah, to me it's unspeakable grandeur that speaks louder than any choreographic intricacy.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I'm sure Yuna and David are aware, they are professionals and made creative choices. I just don't happen to agree this time. I think to really bring out the performance in Adiós Nonino you need a deep and moving interpretation. What a performance it could have been, coming from a 23 year old woman who has matured beyond her years since that teenage girl we got to know in the last quad.

    My sadness about the program is because it feels the approach is cavalier, like we are getting something we've already seen from Yuna years before, just different music playing in the background. Lackluster is a good word.

    BUT, I reserve the right to change my mind depending on the final product. It's not over until it's over, and we'll know next month at Sochi. I will keep my fingers crossed until then.

    No matter what, we got Send in the Clowns this year, which is at least one more program I can watch over and over again.
    I guess you are right, Kim and Wilson knew it but it might be a bigger hurdle than they imagine.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirai4life View Post
    Her programs are always out of this world for me.

    If i were a skater, not in this life, i would love to have her programs. hahaha
    By no means it's a poor program. it's just compared to her caliber.

  14. #494
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    Well I would argue the climax is there but isn't properly set up right. The program doesn't correctly build to the climax. It just comes out of nowhere, because of the music cut.

    Also, I'm not saying Yuna did meaningless attack after attack in her previous Adios Nonino performances. She doesn't skate like Julia at all (thankfully). I'm saying the emotional depth is lacking because ... in the same way Julia just meaninglessly attacks from one element to the next, it seems like Yuna floats or glides from one segment of the music to the next (in this case, without purpose). It's funny to contrast, because all of the emphasis in Julia's approach is trying her hardest, whereas Yuna the elements just get in her way. Then she brushes them off like nothing, no effort, that's the superiority of her skating.

    Some other Yuna fans have argued her program is abstract, supposed to be like free verse poetry, whatever you want to call it. I don't think so ... remember, it's disadvantageous for Yuna to just float around without purpose. It's a more ethereal effect than someone like Julia ... but it's not complete enough to touch the audience. She needs purpose, and even Gershwin had purpose -- she was flirting and playing with the audience for 2 and a half minutes, drawing us in, then finishing with a dramatic climax to take our breath away. She wasn't just riffing notes for 4 minutes as some people claimed.

    Now, what will we get for the final version of Adios Nonino? I'm not sure. I do think her conditioning and injury caused her to focus only on technical issues earlier this season, so I think just now Yuna has started concentrating harder on presentation. She will be better in Sochi for sure. Whether that's enough to make the program completely come together and move someone like me to tears, I don't know, but we'll see!

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Well I would argue the climax is there but isn't properly set up right. The program doesn't correctly build to the climax. It just comes out of nowhere, because of the music cut.

    Also, I'm not saying Yuna did meaningless attack after attack in her previous Adios Nonino performances. She doesn't skate like Julia at all (thankfully). I'm saying the emotional depth is lacking because ... in the same way Julia just meaninglessly attacks from one element to the next, it seems like Yuna floats or glides from one segment of the music to the next (in this case, without purpose). It's funny to contrast, because all of the emphasis in Julia's approach is trying her hardest, whereas Yuna the elements just get in her way. Then she brushes them off like nothing, no effort, that's the superiority of her skating.

    Some other Yuna fans have argued her program is abstract, supposed to be like free verse poetry, whatever you want to call it. I don't think so ... remember, it's disadvantageous for Yuna to just float around without purpose. It's a more ethereal effect than someone like Julia ... but it's not complete enough to touch the audience. She needs purpose, and even Gershwin had purpose -- she was flirting and playing with the audience for 2 and a half minutes, drawing us in, then finishing with a dramatic climax to take our breath away. She wasn't just riffing notes for 4 minutes as some people claimed.

    Now, what we will get for the final version of Adios Nonino, I'm not sure. I do think her conditioning and injury caused her to focus only on technical issues earlier this season, so I think just now Yuna has started concentrating harder on presentation. She will be better in Sochi for sure. Whether that's enough to make the program completely come together and move someone like me to tears, I don't know, but we'll see!
    You're trying too hard.

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