Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law | Page 14 | Golden Skate

Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
Did you hear about an actual petition in Baden-Württemberg? The parents of school children do not want that the teachers speak in the class about homosexuality. Many thousands people support this petition. They all think homosexuals are lesser beings. This is the situation in Germany.

It's a delicate situation to deal with all over the world. But you're talking about a petition by many thousands in a country with 82 million inhabitants, not a law passed by the state. So, no, "this is not the situation in Germany".
Even those thousands who signed the petition don't want it to be illegal for a gay couple to hold hands in the streets. I really don't see much of a connection here.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
In Russia is legal if a man of 50 has sex with a young man of 16. In the US, in Germany etc it is not possible.
Then by all means, pass a law on that! But not a law that it is in effect a complete ban on the gay rights movement and any public expression of homosexuality.
The possibility of that 50 year old man taking advantage of a 16 year old boy should not be an excuse for legally downgrading gay adults.
By the way, in Russia it is also legal if a man of 50 has sex with a young woman of 16. I don't find that picture particularly romantic either.

What are you criticizing?
As you can read in my earlier post, my issue with this new law isn't about what this means for the sexlife of teenagers, but about the state effectively legally acknowledging a part of the population as lesser beings. That is what I am criticizing. You don't have to agree with me though.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
Frenchie, maybe you know whether this was true:

Germany Jails Eight Christian Fathers for Removing Children from Sex-Ed Class

If it was true, is that the "equality and freedom" that you want?

- Oh - My - God. Bluebonnet, why don't you want to listen to Tonichelle's suggestion that we should all get along? To spew such incendiary and misleading words on such a thread is simply tasteless and disgusting of you. Now of course I feel the need to answer again. :rolleye:
- Speaking of "going out of your way to pick a fight", as you criticized me earlier for reminding you saying that Figure Skating had become "too gay for you, and you'd therefore drop it after Sochi"... You actually researched "Germany and equality of freedom", up to five years in the past? I remember you using the word "hipocrisy" a few times with others - care to look in the mirror ;)
- I read this article by your source and was actually really surprised at how irresponsible the fact-checking was, given the incendiary nature of these accusations. For instance, you'll be extatic to hear that the word "Bussgeld", litterally translated as "repentance money", is actually the regular word in German for "fine". If I get a speeding ticket, I have to pay Bussgeld. There's nothing more to it. This article reminds me of the one that was linked on this forum, where some guy said the reason Nagasu wasn't sent to Sochi was because of her asian ethnicity, and he even ended his "article" with "Wagner was born in Germany" without feeling the need to mention that it was because her father was a US soldier serving his country by being stationed in Germany.
- Does the fact that you ask me whether this was true or not mean that you haven't researched further? In case you didn't find other information, I suggest you open up to other, less "one-sided" sources than this site. I explored it a bit and found they have very strong beliefs in one certain direction and aren't exactly interested in portraying both sides to the story...
The Internet might be a good start for you to have a more educated opinion on things.
I hope you read this, eventually decide to research by yourself, and will be sincerely appalled by how "lifesitenews" has so blatantly lied to you. I really do.
OK, here's the facts I found:
Judgment: sex education is compulsory for all - even for Baptists

STRASBOURG. The European Court of Human Rights has confirmed the German compulsory education at a crucial point: Even the sexual education is compulsory and is not contrary to the parents' right to education and freedom of religion, judged the judges in Strasbourg.

They rejected the lawsuit filed by five German Baptist families from North Rhine-Westphalia, who had their children out of school temporarily held away and were therefore fined. The decision is final.

The quarrel already began in June 2005. Back then, two of the affected couples asked to have their children, who at that time were in the fourth grade of a primary school in Salzkotten, freed from "Sachkundeunterricht" (not sex ed, but a class that teaches everything). According to the curriculum, sex education was on the program. The parents complained in particular the content of a book that was used for teaching, as partially pornographic. The representation precludes their religious beliefs, according to which sexuality could only take place within marriage. The two sets of parents belong to, as well as the other applicants, an evangelical Baptist church.

The school refused to release the children from school, citing the existing compulsory education and the applicable curriculum. The parents then kept their children away from school for a week, whereupon all four parents were sentenced by a fine of 75 euros each.

Beginning of 2007, three other sets of parents from the Baptist church refused to send their children to school because a project work under the title "My body belongs to me" was on the program. The theater workshop was intended to point to the problem of child sexual abuse and thereby contribute to prevention. The parents argued that the content is harmful for the moral development of their daughter. The Theater Project Educate the children to a "free sexuality" . They would be taught that they had to control their sexuality alone and their only counselor, and it has never mistaken, was to be their feeling. Each parent was imposed a fine of 120 euros for violation of compulsory education.

Dispute about Mardi Gras celebration

Finally, the children of those families were unable to attend a Mardi Gras celebration at school because these be incompatible with their religious and moral beliefs. The parent viewed that a duty to participate in a carnival event would violate the religious neutrality of the school, as Fastnacht is a celebration of the Catholic Church. It will now so acclaimed that "Catholics to indulge before Lent eating and drinking, to disguise himself and usually completely uninhibited - exempt from all morality - behaving like fools." Also in this case there were fines for violation of the compulsory education of 40 and 80 euros . As a result, three of the couples talked more children from lessons and also refused to pay all fines, which therefore kept on increasing. The six fathers and mothers were sentenced to prison terms of up to 43 days.

Two courts , the District Court of Paderborn and the Hamm Court confirmed the sentences imposed. The Federal Constitutional Court refused to accept the complaints of the parents. A violation of fundamental rights had not been adequately explained. The fundamental right to freedom of belief is accessible to limitations that arise from the Constitution itself, it said in the grounds of the judges in Karlsruhe. For this purpose belong to the educational mission granted to the State.

Not objectionable German compulsory education

The Strasbourg judges now confirmed this line: The German system of compulsory education, which precluded the teaching of children at home generally, aim for the integration of children into society. The emergence of parallel societies should be prevented. Although this legal opinion must be weighed against the importance of pluralism for democracy , the Court could recognize in no violation of human rights. Also, not in this particular case. There was no indication that the education provided would have put the view expressed by the parents sexual morality into question. Religious freedom and the right of education of parents on education does not mean that a right exists, spared opinions remain conflicting with their own convictions. The applicants are free to educate their children after school and on weekends in accordance with their religious beliefs. There was also no indication that the fines imposed were disproportionate. The prison sentence was imposed because the fines were not paid, not because of the original injury of compulsory education.

The decision was given by a Chamber of seven members, including judges from Luxembourg , Sweden , the Czech Republic , Slovenia , Liechtenstein , Ukraine and Germany .
I simply used google translate to put this into english, you may do the same.
Do you realize just how much of a lie "Germany Jails Eight Christian Fathers for Removing Children from Sex-Ed Class" is now?

I would really like to apologize to anyone who rightfully feels annoyed by this whole smear campaign and my need to answer those ridiculous accusations Bluebonnet feels the urge to make in all kinds of directions.
I can only ask that you think about how your reaction would be if someone wrote something like "hey, is it true that xxx(you!) molested a child?"
You might wish to have the serenity to just let such unfounded lies be told without bothering, but you probably won't manage to stay silent.
My hope remains that Bluebonnet sticks to her statement and leaves Figure Skating behind her after Sochi. Far, far behind her.
The closing ceremony will be held February 23rd. 36 days to go. :bow:
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
- Oh - My - God. Bluebonnet, why don't you want to listen to Tonichelle's suggestion that we should all get along? To spew such incendiary and misleading words on such a thread is simply tasteless and disgusting of you. Now of course I feel the need to answer again. :rolleye:
- Speaking of "going out of your way to pick a fight", as you criticized me earlier for reminding you saying that Figure Skating had become "too gay for you, and you'd therefore drop it after Sochi"... You actually researched "Germany and equality of freedom", up to five years in the past? I remember you using the word "hipocrisy" a few times with others - care to look in the mirror ;)
- I read this article by your source and was actually really surprised at how irresponsible the fact-checking was, given the incendiary nature of these accusations. For instance, you'll be extatic to hear that the word "Bussgeld", litterally translated as "repentance money", is actually the regular word in German for "fine". If I get a speeding ticket, I have to pay Bussgeld. There's nothing more to it. This article reminds me of the one that was linked on this forum, where some guy said the reason Nagasu wasn't sent to Sochi was because of her asian ethnicity, and he even ended his "article" with "Wagner was born in Germany" without feeling the need to mention that it was because her father was a US soldier serving his country by being stationed in Germany.
- Does the fact that you ask me whether this was true or not mean that you haven't researched further? In case you didn't find other information, I suggest you open up to other, less "one-sided" sources than this site. I explored it a bit and found they have very strong beliefs in one certain direction and aren't exactly interested in portraying both sides to the story...
The Internet might be a good start for you to have a more educated opinion on things.
I hope you read this, eventually decide to research by yourself, and will be sincerely appalled by how "lifesitenews" has so blatantly lied to you. I really do.
OK, here's the facts I found:

I simply used google translate to put this into english, you may do the same.
Do you realize just how much of a lie "Germany Jails Eight Christian Fathers for Removing Children from Sex-Ed Class" is now?

I would really like to apologize to anyone who rightfully feels annoyed by this whole smear campaign and my need to answer those ridiculous accusations Bluebonnet feels the urge to make in all kinds of directions.
I can only ask that you think about how your reaction would be if someone wrote something like "hey, is it true that xxx(you!) molested a child?"
You might wish to have the serenity to just let such unfounded lies be told without bothering, but you probably won't manage to stay silent.
My hope remains that Bluebonnet sticks to her statement and leaves Figure Skating behind her after Sochi. Far, far behind her.
The closing ceremony will be held February 23rd. 36 days to go.

Thank you for such high estimation on my enthusiasm for your country's affair. I feel that I have completely failed you. Someone mentioned the Germany incidence on yahoo when talked about Sochi Olympics. I was curious about it since I have never thought about Germany. So I googled it and easily found it.;) I was asking you whether it was true, wasn't I? Obviously I don't know it.

If you and all these aggressions back off a little bit and leave the Olympics alone, there will be of course a peace. You don't need to mention every so often about my leaving the board. Now I feel that I have to stay since you so want me to leave.:laugh:

ETA:

By the way, "compulsory education" and "no parallel societies"... Wow, sounds like what Totalitarian would do.:p
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In other news: The President of Nigeria last week signed into law a prohibition against "amorous relationships" between persons of the same sex, punishable by 10 to 14 years in prison. On Thursday the first 10 "suspects" were rounded up accused of violating this law.
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
It's a delicate situation to deal with all over the world. But you're talking about a petition by many thousands in a country with 82 million inhabitants, not a law passed by the state. So, no, "this is not the situation in Germany".
Even those thousands who signed the petition don't want it to be illegal for a gay couple to hold hands in the streets. I really don't see much of a connection here.
Read this before you criticize Russia:

LGBT persons' experiences of discrimination and hate crime in the EU and Croatia (May 2013)
http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication...-discrimination-and-hate-crime-eu-and-croatia

The results show that LGBT persons in today’s EU society regularly suffer from not being able to be themselves at school, at work or in public. Many therefore hide their identity and live in isolation or even fear. Others experience discrimination and even violence when being themselves. Important differences exist among countries concerning the respondents’ perception and experience of discrimination, harassment and violence on grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity. This holds also true as regards their perceptions of the extent of negative social attitudes towards LGBT persons, as well as avoidance strategies they employ for fear of being assaulted, threatened or harassed.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
By the way, "compulsory education" and "no parallel societies"... Wow, sounds like what Totalitarian would do.:p

Whenever you think it would be a good idea to post some opinion of yours: don't. Your level of ignorance is just appalling and most of what I read from you on this forum is incredibly offensive and plain dumb. Just keep that in mind please. Those totalitarian words you're criticizing are from the European Court for Human Rights, issued by a Chamber of seven members, including judges from Luxembourg , Sweden , the Czech Republic , Slovenia , Liechtenstein , Ukraine and Germany. That's a lot of Totalitarians according to you...
Yes, children have to go to school here in Germany. I'm starting to get a frightening picture as to why your posts keep on popping up the way they do... Never mind, please don't (try to) respond.

Read this before you criticize Russia:

LGBT persons' experiences of discrimination and hate crime in the EU and Croatia (May 2013)
http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication...-discrimination-and-hate-crime-eu-and-croatia

The results show that LGBT persons in today’s EU society regularly suffer from not being able to be themselves at school, at work or in public. Many therefore hide their identity and live in isolation or even fear. Others experience discrimination and even violence when being themselves. Important differences exist among countries concerning the respondents’ perception and experience of discrimination, harassment and violence on grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity. This holds also true as regards their perceptions of the extent of negative social attitudes towards LGBT persons, as well as avoidance strategies they employ for fear of being assaulted, threatened or harassed.

Luckyguy, please forgive me if Bluebonnet has drawn any patience out of me at this point, but I feel frustrated that you don't read my replies to you.
You asked me what I was criticizing, I answered very clearly, and yet again, you post some answer that neglects my views and my answers.
If you want me to answer again, ok, now for the 3rd time:
"As you can read in my earlier post, my issue with this new law is about the state effectively legally acknowledging a part of the population as lesser beings. That is what I am criticizing. You don't have to agree with me though."

You can show me endless descriptions of how LGBT have a tough time all over the world - please don't! - but those countries and their governments are not officially making LGBT lesser beings. Russia's state did. DIFFERENCE: REALITY ON THE STREET AND LAW BY STATE. GOT IT?
Thank you, Mathman, for pointing out that Nigeria has as well.
Before Bluebonnet asks, no, "this is not my idea of freedom" :rolleye:
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Luckyguy, please forgive me if Bluebonnet has drawn any patience out of me at this point, but I feel frustrated that you don't read my replies to you.
You asked me what I was criticizing, I answered very clearly, and yet again, you post some answer that neglects my views and my answers.
If you want me to answer again, ok, now for the 3rd time:
"As you can read in my earlier post, my issue with this new law is about the state effectively legally acknowledging a part of the population as lesser beings. That is what I am criticizing. You don't have to agree with me though."

You can show me endless descriptions of how LGBT have a tough time all over the world - please don't! - but those countries and their governments are not officially making LGBT lesser beings. Russia's state did. DIFFERENCE: REALITY ON THE STREET AND LAW BY STATE. GOT IT?

Without an exactly citation of the russian law it is for me only a manipulative propaganda. But you can persuade me with a citation. I hope you read the russian law.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
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May 4, 2013
Without an exactly citation of the russian law it is for me only a manipulative propaganda. But you can persuade me with a citation. I hope you read the russian law.
I don't speak Russian. Here's what Wikipedia said about it:
In June 2013 the national parliament (the State Duma) unanimously adopted, and President Vladimir Putin signed, a nationwide law banning distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors. The law does not explicitly mention the word "homosexuality", but instead uses the euphemism "non-traditional sexual relations". Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in defense of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships.

The law subjects Russian citizens found guilty to fines of up to 5,000 rubles and public officials to fines of up to 50,000 rubles. Organizations or businesses will be fined up to 1 million rubles and be forced to cease operations for up to 90 days. Foreigners may be arrested and detained for up to 15 days then deported, as well as fined up to 100,000 rubles. Russian citizens who have used the Internet or media to promote "non-traditional relations" will be fined up to 100,000 rubles.

The statute amended a law that is said to protect children from pornography and other "harmful information".

Critics say that the statute is written so broadly that it is in effect a complete ban on the gay rights movement and any public expression of homosexuality.
You're free to believe that Wikipedia is motivated in "only a manipulative propaganda", but I hope you'll agree that this new sidestep debate about a sidestep debate about a sidestep debate would be too much for this thread. Please. :bow:
Feel free to surf the web for a word for word translation of the law, I'm going to enjoy the pair's FS now :yay:
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Feel free to surf the web ...

I did it and found a press release on human rights in the EU published by the Russian Foreign Ministry on tuesday. I don´t wanna commentate it, but it is interesting to know the russian point of view:
http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.ns...79510044415b/44257b100055de8444257c60004a6491

The most pressing human rights issues in the EU still include a steady growth of xenophobia, racism, violent nationalism, chauvinism and neo-Nazism. In the context of financial and economic crisis that continues in Europe, grave violations of the rights of minorities, refugees and migrants are increasing, and social rights of citizens are being infringed upon. Such issues as the lack of protection of children's rights, gender inequality, abuse of power by the police, violations of the prisoners' rights and harboring by a number of EU countries of CIA black sites remain acute. The facts proving systematic and mass violations of privacy and infringements on the freedom of speech and media have caused a special concern.
.....
Attempts have been made to enforce on other countries an alien view of homosexuality and same-sex marriages as a norm of life and some kind of a natural social phenomenon that deserves support at the state level. Such an approach encounters resistance not only in the countries upholding traditional values, but also in those countries which have always taken a liberal attitude towards queers. Suffice it to recall the protest reaction of a major part of the French society to the decision on legalization of same-sex marriages in the country.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
Suffice it to recall the protest reaction of a major part of the French society to the decision on legalization of same-sex marriages in the country.

Public opinion
Opinion polls generally show that the French public supports the legalisation of same-sex marriage.

Bertrand Delanoë has been Mayor of Paris for 13 years now. He was one of the first major French politicians to announce that he was gay, during a 1998 television interview (before being elected mayor). Didn't stop him from being elected. And re-elected.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Whenever you think it would be a good idea to post some opinion of yours: don't. Your level of ignorance is just appalling and most of what I read from you on this forum is incredibly offensive and plain dumb. Just keep that in mind please. Those totalitarian words you're criticizing are from the European Court for Human Rights, issued by a Chamber of seven members, including judges from Luxembourg , Sweden , the Czech Republic , Slovenia , Liechtenstein , Ukraine and Germany. That's a lot of Totalitarians according to you...
Yes, children have to go to school here in Germany. I'm starting to get a frightening picture as to why your posts keep on popping up the way they do... Never mind, please don't (try to) respond.

I feel that there are some important points that I have to make. First I have to say that maybe you should really put me on ignore like you said you had weeks ago if you think that my posts are getting on your poor nerves. I'd prefer if you do.:p And you should know that your views are equally appalling, offensive, and dumb - those are the words you use and they suit perfectly here.

Second, don't make it sounds so terrible as if I am against education.:sarcasm: To me, 12 years (if you don't count one year in kindergarten) in school education should be must to anyone. However, it is not good enough for my standard. My household standard is 16 years at the very least, 20 years is highly preferred. Back onto the Germany topic, we are not talking about learning languages, math, and science here. We are talking about indoctrinating children on non-traditional sexuality. I feel sorry for the people who hold different views on this topic in your country. And glad that I do not live there. Nevertheless, I am afraid that the school education in US is heading into that direction. As of "totalitarianism" comment, yes, I meant it. I don't see freedom and equality in this. Parents have to obey the way their children are indoctrinated or they will be fined and charged and go to jail. Sounds so forceful! Are you still wondering why Russia has put on such law?;)

I did it and found a press release on human rights in the EU published by the Russian Foreign Ministry on tuesday. I don´t wanna commentate it, but it is interesting to know the russian point of view:
http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.ns...79510044415b/44257b100055de8444257c60004a6491

The most pressing human rights issues in the EU still include a steady growth of xenophobia, racism, violent nationalism, chauvinism and neo-Nazism. In the context of financial and economic crisis that continues in Europe, grave violations of the rights of minorities, refugees and migrants are increasing, and social rights of citizens are being infringed upon. Such issues as the lack of protection of children's rights, gender inequality, abuse of power by the police, violations of the prisoners' rights and harboring by a number of EU countries of CIA black sites remain acute. The facts proving systematic and mass violations of privacy and infringements on the freedom of speech and media have caused a special concern.
.....
Attempts have been made to enforce on other countries an alien view of homosexuality and same-sex marriages as a norm of life and some kind of a natural social phenomenon that deserves support at the state level. Such an approach encounters resistance not only in the countries upholding traditional values, but also in those countries which have always taken a liberal attitude towards queers. Suffice it to recall the protest reaction of a major part of the French society to the decision on legalization of same-sex marriages in the country.

Thank you so much! A real eye opener!:)
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
I like pie.


Old-Fashioned Apple Pie

"Apple pie" conjures warmth, aroma, taste, and togetherness. This one is filled with Granny Smith apples and is tucked into a buttery crust.


Ingredients

2 tablespoons all-purpose flour, plus more for dusting
Pate Brisee (Pie Dough)
12 Granny Smith apples, peeled, cored, and sliced
3/4 cup sugar, plus additional for pie top
Zest and juice of 1 lemon
1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
Pinch ground cloves
2 tablespoons unsalted butter
1 large egg, beaten

Directions

Step 1
Heat oven to 375 degrees. On a lightly floured surface, roll out pate brisee into two 1/8-inch-thick circles to a diameter slightly larger than that of an 11-inch plate. Press one pastry circle into the pie plate. Place the other circle on waxed paper, and cover with plastic wrap. Chill all pastry until firm, about 30 minutes.

Step 2
In a large bowl, combine apples, sugar, lemon zest and juice, spices, and flour. Toss well. Spoon apples into pie pan. Dot with butter, and cover with remaining pastry circle. Cut several steam vents across top. Seal by crimping edges as desired. Brush with beaten egg, and sprinkle with additional sugar.

Step 3
Bake until crust is brown and juices are bubbling, about 1 hour. Let cool on wire rack before serving.

Source
Martha Stewart Living, November/December 1991

:)
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I think focussing on anything else beside skating clean and being perfect is what Ashley needs. When she puts pressure on herself she doesn't do well (see: Boston Nationals).


I don't think any athlete needs to feel they HAVE to speak out for or against the law. If they choose to, fine, if they don't? Also fine. Yuna does not owe anyone anything.

I AGREE. I did not say or imply she did. BUT, has she in fact said anything? Far more want her opinion. She is number 1 citizen of a nation. I am interested. Knowing she is Catholic, I am pretty sure what she is expected to say, but being a skater with many gay friends, she likely does not buy that. So, only thing to do is ...say nothing. Which is likely the facts. just the facts, maam.
 
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