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Thread: Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law

  1. #211
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    what happens when you open your mouth for the sake of media attention without not knowing the situation and not focusing on qualifying for teh team first instead

    she got Karma maybe ?

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    what happens when you open your mouth for the sake of media attention without not knowing the situation and not focusing on qualifying for teh team first instead

    she got Karma maybe ?
    Karma, for what? Speaking out against an unjust law, and thus the heteronormative supremacist culture that the law derives from? Further, what situation does she not understand? Must you be a sociologist or cultural historian specializing in Russia to know the obvious fact that Russia treats their LGBTQ population terribly? And in what way does speaking out in some press conference / interview in any way prevent her from "focusing on qualifying for the team" ? Does giving a short interview take too much time? You have repeatedly said she was worn-out, so what could she had done anyway? Practicing more would have surely worn her out more right?

    I get you don't like her as a skater, and your rancorous glee at her loss is pretty sad. I suppose you just like having your ego stroked for your successful prediction. But why does your dislike of her skating have to extend to making snarky, mean-spirited digs at her?

  3. #213
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    If karma truly existed, sky_fly would have been flattened by a zamboni ages ago for her bitchy attitude.

    Only she would actually criticize somebody advocating against discrimination, and label it as attention-seeking.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    Karma, for what? Speaking out against an unjust law, and thus the heteronormative supremacist culture that the law derives from? Further, what situation does she not understand? Must you be a sociologist or cultural historian specializing in Russia to know the obvious fact that Russia treats their LGBTQ population terribly? And in what way does speaking out in some press conference / interview in any way prevent her from "focusing on qualifying for the team" ? Does giving a short interview take too much time? You have repeatedly said she was worn-out, so what could she had done anyway? Practicing more would have surely worn her out more right?
    She spoke of what she's going to do in Sochi while she wasn't yet qualified there, didn't she?
    Now she's in hands of USFS, and they should decide, if Ashley will paint rainbow on her nails in Sochi, or she'll have to do the same at home
    By the way, it's not athlete's prerogative to judge which law is a just one, and which is unjust. Especially talking about other countries.

  5. #215
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    Is the situation of gays in Russia really so terrible?

    I am more interested what Johnny Weir think of this problem. He lived in Russia and knows the situation in the country better than Wagner.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Helicopter View Post
    She spoke of what she's going to do in Sochi while she wasn't yet qualified there, didn't she?
    Now she's in hands of USFS, and they should decide, if Ashley will paint rainbow on her nails in Sochi, or she'll have to do the same at home
    By the way, it's not athlete's prerogative to judge which law is a just one, and which is unjust. Especially talking about other countries.
    Tell that to six million murdered Jews. Marty Glickstein and another US sprinter were pulled from the 4X100 meter final because Hitler objected to their participation and Avery Brundage the head of the US Olympic committee complied. Perhaps if he had objected they would have been able to run as was their right.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by yelyoh View Post
    Tell that to six million murdered Jews. Marty Glickstein and another US sprinter were pulled from the 4X100 meter final because Hitler objected to their participation and Avery Brundage the head of the US Olympic committee complied. Perhaps if he had objected they would have been able to run as was their right.
    Do you really want to compare contemporary Russia to Hitler-Germany?

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Helicopter View Post
    She spoke of what she's going to do in Sochi while she wasn't yet qualified there, didn't she?
    Now she's in hands of USFS, and they should decide, if Ashley will paint rainbow on her nails in Sochi, or she'll have to do the same at home
    By the way, it's not athlete's prerogative to judge which law is a just one, and which is unjust. Especially talking about other countries.
    A reporter asked her if she'd speak her mind if asked about it if she made it to Sochi.
    She answered to the question asked. Which isn't attention seeking, but polite.

    As sad as I am for her, I'm ok with her not making it to Sochi, I'd love it if she went on a US tour instead, to promote tolerance for LGBT and speak out against antiquated views on bigotry and homophobia that should not be accepted anymore in today's society.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Is the situation of gays in Russia really so terrible?

    I am more interested what Johnny Weir think of this problem. He lived in Russia and knows the situation in the country better than Wagner.
    Russian isn't exact Uganda, but it's still a pretty bad place for LGBTQ persons. And it's not just this recent law passed or the prohibition against same-sex marriage. The extralegal discrimination and violence against LGBTQ people is really the worst. Employment opportunities are very small if you are openly gay and violence against LGBTQ people is tolerated. For example, in the last few months, there has been a slew of videos posted on Russian social media of young gay men being captured and humiliated or tortured. People have reported that several have been murdered, but the police aren't really interested in investigating. Other, less organized violence, is reported to be prevalent by activists in Russia, but quality statistics on this stuff is hard to come by because, surprise surprise, the Russian government isn't exactly willing to collect and release this kind of data. The so-called "anti-propaganda" law has only emboldened discrimination and violence against the LGBTQ population and its wording is so-vague it can be used as a catch-all against anyone trying to advocate for tolerance of LGBTQ people.

    Also, though irrelevant to my point, I couldn't find any google results saying Johnny Weir lived in Russia. Only that his husband, who he married in New York, was Russian-born.
    Last edited by caelum; 01-12-2014 at 09:36 AM. Reason: typo

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Do you really want to compare contemporary Russia to Hitler-Germany?
    I was making a point about not taking a stand and the consequences.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    Russian isn't exact Uganda, but it's still a pretty bad place for LGBTQ persons. And it's not just this recent law passed or the prohibition against same-sex marriage. The extralegal discrimination and violence against LGBTQ people is really the worst. Employment opportunities are very small if you are openly gay and violence against LGBTQ people is tolerated. For example, in the last few months, there has been a slew of videos posted on Russian social media of young gay men being captured and humiliated or tortured. People have reported that several have been murdered, but the police aren't really interested in investigating. Other, less organized violence, is reported to be prevalent by activists in Russia, but quality statistics on this stuff is hard to come by because, surprise surprise, the Russian government isn't exactly willing to collect and release this kind of data. The so-called "anti-propaganda" law has only emboldened discrimination and violence against the LGBTQ population and its wording is so-vague it can be used as a catch-all against anyone trying to advocate for tolerance of LGBTQ people.



    Also, though irrelevant to my point, I couldn't find any google results saying Johnny Weir lived in Russia. Only that his husband, who he married in New York, was Russian-born.
    Good explanation.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Do you really want to compare contemporary Russia to Hitler-Germany?
    One openly discriminates against a minority and has laws in place that persecute them and their supporters. And the other, oh wait...

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    One openly discriminates against a minority and has laws in place that persecute them and their supporters. And the other, oh wait...
    you're comparing the law to Nasizm

    anyways, its best Wagner accepts she lost to Mirai and Polina at go to Worlds instead, Wagner will be mocked if she even competes in Sochi
    the Russian media be criticizing her making statements yet finishing only 4th in her Nationals, not to mention her reputation has been completely tarnished

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Is the situation of gays in Russia really so terrible?
    No. It is all hyped on purpose to draw attentions.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    No. It is all hyped on purpose to draw attentions.
    they should go to Uganda, Iran or the Gulf Middle Eastern States and then they will happily come back to Mother Russia

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