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Thread: Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    So, racial profiling and police brutality isn't a thing? And racism no longer exists in the US?
    Is that your tactic? To make something either a cause for international interference or it will mean nothing exists? I wouldn't deny some incidences, just like many many incidences happened in US. But the whole thing has been absolutely hyped on purpose by the western media and the active advocates.

  2. #242
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    I don't recall any of the American skaters speaking out about gay rights until it became an issue in other than their own, and they certainly have had ample opportunity and reason to. The sodomy laws in this country weren't struck down by the supreme court that many years ago. Until that was done, there were actually a few men serving considerable time in prison for violating them. If the skaters want to protest the laws in Russia fine, but there is still a great deal of work to be done in their own country. It smacks of hypocrisy to speak out against Russia and not your own country, which while it is making progress still leaves a lot to be achieved.

    The skaters at nationals could have made some kind of non disrupting statement at their own nationals: rainbow fingernails or whatever; signed a petition.......

  3. #243
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    If American skaters want to fight for gay and lesbian rights, why don't they start at their own doorstep. Look around you and see the discrimination against these people. Start demonstrations in your own country and let your voice be heard instead of bashing other countries for their beliefs. What no racism in the US, what a joke!!!. Why didn't Ashley or other skates wear rainbow accessories at her own Nationals to demonstrate the laws of their own country........attention seekers.......do you think the Russian government is going to pay heed to this...now Canada on the other hand has their own laws pertaining to this subject.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    .....attention seekers.......
    As an academic in a field that has a focus on social movements and culture/politics, I needed to step in here. The Olympic Games is a stage where attention is placed upon an individual. This attention means that EVERY action they make will be seen and, if powerful, can be seen by the entire world. They are not seeking attention, they are considering using the attention placed upon them for a real reason in an attempt to make the entire world just a little bit more of a place that accepts everyone, not just those they agree with.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by pista04 View Post
    As an academic in a field that has a focus on social movements and culture/politics, I needed to step in here. The Olympic Games is a stage where attention is placed upon an individual. This attention means that EVERY action they make will be seen and, if powerful, can be seen by the entire world. They are not seeking attention, they are considering using the attention placed upon them for a real reason in an attempt to make the entire world just a little bit more of a place that accepts everyone, not just those they agree with.

    My point is that when they go to Russia, are they going to protest the rights of the gays and lesbians in their own country or just Russia? First of all they should start at home.

  6. #246
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    She's doing the rainbow thing to show she stands with the LGBT community - not just in Russia but worldwide. I see no problem in that. She has family and friends who are gay. None of this is surprising or shocking. And she IS vocal about her country's own issues.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    bashing other countries for their beliefs.
    These laws aren't "Russia's beliefs" or "Russian traditions". They're new. Passed in June 2013.
    There's a difference between accepting the reality that China, for example, has had a long history -one here might call it a tradition?- of human rights issues, and getting their government to evolve in the right direction is a very delicate subject; and a country like, let's say France, if they'd say: "OK, as of this new law that we just passed today, we declare that we don't care about human rights anymore". Then, there would be huge worldwide outrage.

    In June 2013 the national parliament (the State Duma) unanimously adopted, and President Vladimir Putin signed, a nationwide law banning distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors. The law does not explicitly mention the word "homosexuality", but instead uses the euphemism "non-traditional sexual relations". Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in defense of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships.

    The law subjects Russian citizens found guilty to fines of up to 5,000 rubles and public officials to fines of up to 50,000 rubles. Organizations or businesses will be fined up to 1 million rubles and be forced to cease operations for up to 90 days. Foreigners may be arrested and detained for up to 15 days then deported, as well as fined up to 100,000 rubles. Russian citizens who have used the Internet or media to promote "non-traditional relations" will be fined up to 100,000 rubles.

    The statute amended a law that is said to protect children from pornography and other "harmful information".

    Critics say that the statute is written so broadly that it is in effect a complete ban on the gay rights movement and any public expression of homosexuality.

    On 21 July 2013, four Dutch tourists were arrested for allegedly discussing gay rights with Russian youths. The four were arrested for allegedly spreading "propaganda of nontraditional relationships among the under-aged" after talking to teens at a camp in the northern city of Murmansk.
    I don't think you have to be LGBT to understand that this development isn't a good one.


    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
    Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984), about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and the subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
    This isn't meant to compare anyone to the Nazi regime, but to point out how wrong I believe the notion is to "look the other way since I'm not directly affected", as suggested by some on this forum. Or even go as far as criticize someone harshly and repeatedly for saying that she feels strongly about not looking the other way. Ashley is being criticized for answering honestly to a question a reporter asked her, she didn't light the Duma on fire.

  8. #248
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    I would like to know the age of consent in the US and in Russia.

  9. #249
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    The laws reflect Russia's beliefs and values. The laws are milder than the countries beliefs.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    I would like to know the age of consent in the US and in Russia.
    Russia: 16?
    USA: 18?

    Who is more restrictive?

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    What do you think the reality is for LGBT people in Russia? So all the news reports about violence, torture, etc. are all a hoax?
    This is not because of the law and exists in many countries! France and US have had major anti gay crimes recently. So all anti gay crime is because of laws when laws are repealed it should go away? Explain the France situation recently? Or US?

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    The laws reflect Russia's beliefs and values. The laws are milder than the countries beliefs.
    so, to take your statement and run with it, if in some country there have been a lot of hate crimes against blonde people, then it would be ok to pass a law saying it's ok and perfectly legal to beat up blondes?
    By passing this law, the Duma has made this issue move from "something that should be worked on in the future" to "something that we support". Why cement it that way?

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    This is not because of the law and exists in many countries! France and US have had major anti gay crimes recently. So all anti gay crime is because of laws when laws are repealed it should go away? Explain the France situation recently? Or US?
    I don't remember France or the USA reacting to anti gay crimes by adopting a new law to make it effectively illegal to speak in defense of gay rights... I think that would be considered "not very helpful".
    But maybe I missed it?

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    so, to take your statement and run with it, if in some country there have been a lot of hate crimes against blonde people, then it would be ok to pass a law saying it's ok and perfectly legal to beat up blondes?
    By passing this law, the Duma has made this issue move from "something that should be worked on in the future" to "something that we support". Why cement it that way?
    The laws that were passed have nothing to do with violence. The situation you proposed is completely wrong. Violence and assault and killing are all crimes and no law makes it legal. Nor is gay rights illegal. Example being elton John concert.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I don't remember France or the USA reacting to anti gay crimes by adopting passing a new law to make it effectively illegal to speak in defense of gay rights...
    But maybe I missed it?

    That was not the point. The point is if these laws are causing crimes then they shouldn't exist is countries with total gay rights like France and US. Some of these hate crimes in Russia have been prosecuted as crimes by not hate crimes. It's not legal to assault or kill anyone and no law says its ok if the person is gay.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I don't remember France or the USA reacting to anti gay crimes by adopting passing a new law to make it effectively illegal to speak in defense of gay rights... I think that would be considered "not very helpful".
    But maybe I missed it?
    Frenchie, compare the law in different countries. If Russians allow a lower age of consent for the same-sex activity than the western countries, is the law in Russia really so terrible?

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