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Thread: Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law

  1. #271
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    By the way, "compulsory education" and "no parallel societies"... Wow, sounds like what Totalitarian would do.
    Whenever you think it would be a good idea to post some opinion of yours: don't. Your level of ignorance is just appalling and most of what I read from you on this forum is incredibly offensive and plain dumb. Just keep that in mind please. Those totalitarian words you're criticizing are from the European Court for Human Rights, issued by a Chamber of seven members, including judges from Luxembourg , Sweden , the Czech Republic , Slovenia , Liechtenstein , Ukraine and Germany. That's a lot of Totalitarians according to you...
    Yes, children have to go to school here in Germany. I'm starting to get a frightening picture as to why your posts keep on popping up the way they do... Never mind, please don't (try to) respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Read this before you criticize Russia:

    LGBT persons' experiences of discrimination and hate crime in the EU and Croatia (May 2013)
    http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/...eu-and-croatia

    The results show that LGBT persons in today’s EU society regularly suffer from not being able to be themselves at school, at work or in public. Many therefore hide their identity and live in isolation or even fear. Others experience discrimination and even violence when being themselves. Important differences exist among countries concerning the respondents’ perception and experience of discrimination, harassment and violence on grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity. This holds also true as regards their perceptions of the extent of negative social attitudes towards LGBT persons, as well as avoidance strategies they employ for fear of being assaulted, threatened or harassed.
    Luckyguy, please forgive me if Bluebonnet has drawn any patience out of me at this point, but I feel frustrated that you don't read my replies to you.
    You asked me what I was criticizing, I answered very clearly, and yet again, you post some answer that neglects my views and my answers.
    If you want me to answer again, ok, now for the 3rd time:
    "As you can read in my earlier post, my issue with this new law is about the state effectively legally acknowledging a part of the population as lesser beings. That is what I am criticizing. You don't have to agree with me though."

    You can show me endless descriptions of how LGBT have a tough time all over the world - please don't! - but those countries and their governments are not officially making LGBT lesser beings. Russia's state did. DIFFERENCE: REALITY ON THE STREET AND LAW BY STATE. GOT IT?
    Thank you, Mathman, for pointing out that Nigeria has as well.
    Before Bluebonnet asks, no, "this is not my idea of freedom"

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Luckyguy, please forgive me if Bluebonnet has drawn any patience out of me at this point, but I feel frustrated that you don't read my replies to you.
    You asked me what I was criticizing, I answered very clearly, and yet again, you post some answer that neglects my views and my answers.
    If you want me to answer again, ok, now for the 3rd time:
    "As you can read in my earlier post, my issue with this new law is about the state effectively legally acknowledging a part of the population as lesser beings. That is what I am criticizing. You don't have to agree with me though."

    You can show me endless descriptions of how LGBT have a tough time all over the world - please don't! - but those countries and their governments are not officially making LGBT lesser beings. Russia's state did. DIFFERENCE: REALITY ON THE STREET AND LAW BY STATE. GOT IT?
    Without an exactly citation of the russian law it is for me only a manipulative propaganda. But you can persuade me with a citation. I hope you read the russian law.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Without an exactly citation of the russian law it is for me only a manipulative propaganda. But you can persuade me with a citation. I hope you read the russian law.
    I don't speak Russian. Here's what Wikipedia said about it:
    In June 2013 the national parliament (the State Duma) unanimously adopted, and President Vladimir Putin signed, a nationwide law banning distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors. The law does not explicitly mention the word "homosexuality", but instead uses the euphemism "non-traditional sexual relations". Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in defense of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships.

    The law subjects Russian citizens found guilty to fines of up to 5,000 rubles and public officials to fines of up to 50,000 rubles. Organizations or businesses will be fined up to 1 million rubles and be forced to cease operations for up to 90 days. Foreigners may be arrested and detained for up to 15 days then deported, as well as fined up to 100,000 rubles. Russian citizens who have used the Internet or media to promote "non-traditional relations" will be fined up to 100,000 rubles.

    The statute amended a law that is said to protect children from pornography and other "harmful information".

    Critics say that the statute is written so broadly that it is in effect a complete ban on the gay rights movement and any public expression of homosexuality.
    You're free to believe that Wikipedia is motivated in "only a manipulative propaganda", but I hope you'll agree that this new sidestep debate about a sidestep debate about a sidestep debate would be too much for this thread. Please.
    Feel free to surf the web for a word for word translation of the law, I'm going to enjoy the pair's FS now

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Feel free to surf the web ...
    I did it and found a press release on human rights in the EU published by the Russian Foreign Ministry on tuesday. I don´t wanna commentate it, but it is interesting to know the russian point of view:
    http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.nsf...257c60004a6491

    The most pressing human rights issues in the EU still include a steady growth of xenophobia, racism, violent nationalism, chauvinism and neo-Nazism. In the context of financial and economic crisis that continues in Europe, grave violations of the rights of minorities, refugees and migrants are increasing, and social rights of citizens are being infringed upon. Such issues as the lack of protection of children's rights, gender inequality, abuse of power by the police, violations of the prisoners' rights and harboring by a number of EU countries of CIA black sites remain acute. The facts proving systematic and mass violations of privacy and infringements on the freedom of speech and media have caused a special concern.
    .....
    Attempts have been made to enforce on other countries an alien view of homosexuality and same-sex marriages as a norm of life and some kind of a natural social phenomenon that deserves support at the state level. Such an approach encounters resistance not only in the countries upholding traditional values, but also in those countries which have always taken a liberal attitude towards queers. Suffice it to recall the protest reaction of a major part of the French society to the decision on legalization of same-sex marriages in the country.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Suffice it to recall the protest reaction of a major part of the French society to the decision on legalization of same-sex marriages in the country.
    Public opinion
    Opinion polls generally show that the French public supports the legalisation of same-sex marriage.

    Bertrand Delanoë has been Mayor of Paris for 13 years now. He was one of the first major French politicians to announce that he was gay, during a 1998 television interview (before being elected mayor). Didn't stop him from being elected. And re-elected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Whenever you think it would be a good idea to post some opinion of yours: don't. Your level of ignorance is just appalling and most of what I read from you on this forum is incredibly offensive and plain dumb. Just keep that in mind please. Those totalitarian words you're criticizing are from the European Court for Human Rights, issued by a Chamber of seven members, including judges from Luxembourg , Sweden , the Czech Republic , Slovenia , Liechtenstein , Ukraine and Germany. That's a lot of Totalitarians according to you...
    Yes, children have to go to school here in Germany. I'm starting to get a frightening picture as to why your posts keep on popping up the way they do... Never mind, please don't (try to) respond.
    I feel that there are some important points that I have to make. First I have to say that maybe you should really put me on ignore like you said you had weeks ago if you think that my posts are getting on your poor nerves. I'd prefer if you do. And you should know that your views are equally appalling, offensive, and dumb - those are the words you use and they suit perfectly here.

    Second, don't make it sounds so terrible as if I am against education. To me, 12 years (if you don't count one year in kindergarten) in school education should be must to anyone. However, it is not good enough for my standard. My household standard is 16 years at the very least, 20 years is highly preferred. Back onto the Germany topic, we are not talking about learning languages, math, and science here. We are talking about indoctrinating children on non-traditional sexuality. I feel sorry for the people who hold different views on this topic in your country. And glad that I do not live there. Nevertheless, I am afraid that the school education in US is heading into that direction. As of "totalitarianism" comment, yes, I meant it. I don't see freedom and equality in this. Parents have to obey the way their children are indoctrinated or they will be fined and charged and go to jail. Sounds so forceful! Are you still wondering why Russia has put on such law?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    I did it and found a press release on human rights in the EU published by the Russian Foreign Ministry on tuesday. I don´t wanna commentate it, but it is interesting to know the russian point of view:
    http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.nsf...257c60004a6491

    The most pressing human rights issues in the EU still include a steady growth of xenophobia, racism, violent nationalism, chauvinism and neo-Nazism. In the context of financial and economic crisis that continues in Europe, grave violations of the rights of minorities, refugees and migrants are increasing, and social rights of citizens are being infringed upon. Such issues as the lack of protection of children's rights, gender inequality, abuse of power by the police, violations of the prisoners' rights and harboring by a number of EU countries of CIA black sites remain acute. The facts proving systematic and mass violations of privacy and infringements on the freedom of speech and media have caused a special concern.
    .....
    Attempts have been made to enforce on other countries an alien view of homosexuality and same-sex marriages as a norm of life and some kind of a natural social phenomenon that deserves support at the state level. Such an approach encounters resistance not only in the countries upholding traditional values, but also in those countries which have always taken a liberal attitude towards queers. Suffice it to recall the protest reaction of a major part of the French society to the decision on legalization of same-sex marriages in the country.
    Thank you so much! A real eye opener!

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I like pie.

    Old-Fashioned Apple Pie

    "Apple pie" conjures warmth, aroma, taste, and togetherness. This one is filled with Granny Smith apples and is tucked into a buttery crust.


    Ingredients

    2 tablespoons all-purpose flour, plus more for dusting
    Pate Brisee (Pie Dough)
    12 Granny Smith apples, peeled, cored, and sliced
    3/4 cup sugar, plus additional for pie top
    Zest and juice of 1 lemon
    1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon
    1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
    Pinch ground cloves
    2 tablespoons unsalted butter
    1 large egg, beaten

    Directions

    Step 1
    Heat oven to 375 degrees. On a lightly floured surface, roll out pate brisee into two 1/8-inch-thick circles to a diameter slightly larger than that of an 11-inch plate. Press one pastry circle into the pie plate. Place the other circle on waxed paper, and cover with plastic wrap. Chill all pastry until firm, about 30 minutes.

    Step 2
    In a large bowl, combine apples, sugar, lemon zest and juice, spices, and flour. Toss well. Spoon apples into pie pan. Dot with butter, and cover with remaining pastry circle. Cut several steam vents across top. Seal by crimping edges as desired. Brush with beaten egg, and sprinkle with additional sugar.

    Step 3
    Bake until crust is brown and juices are bubbling, about 1 hour. Let cool on wire rack before serving.

    Source
    Martha Stewart Living, November/December 1991

  8. #278
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    ^ Well, you can't go by anything Martha Stewart says.

  9. #279
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I love apple pie.

    I do not like Martha Stewart.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I think focussing on anything else beside skating clean and being perfect is what Ashley needs. When she puts pressure on herself she doesn't do well (see: Boston Nationals).


    I don't think any athlete needs to feel they HAVE to speak out for or against the law. If they choose to, fine, if they don't? Also fine. Yuna does not owe anyone anything.
    I AGREE. I did not say or imply she did. BUT, has she in fact said anything? Far more want her opinion. She is number 1 citizen of a nation. I am interested. Knowing she is Catholic, I am pretty sure what she is expected to say, but being a skater with many gay friends, she likely does not buy that. So, only thing to do is ...say nothing. Which is likely the facts. just the facts, maam.

  11. #281
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    She's stated in several interviews (one of them being linked in the OP of this thread) on her stance and that she won't stay silent if asked in Sochi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I wish there was a 'Like', 'Fan', or 'Fave' button to press on this site.
    I wish that too!!

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    Miss Wagner and her cohorts are so full of themselves. It's beyond mind boggling. She'll be in Sochi more as an activist than as an athlete seeing she is practically a non-factor in the competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    She's stated in several interviews (one of them being linked in the OP of this thread) on her stance and that she won't stay silent if asked in Sochi.
    I think this is the most critical thing here. She is not instigating any protests or making demonstrations, but she is simply going to state her opinion when asked. She might not directly speak against the laws but she could say that two people who love each other should not be discriminated against and certainly not persecuted for doing so, no matter what country they live in.

    And rainbow earrings would be for support of LGBT people, not some political demonstration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chairmanmao View Post
    Miss Wagner and her cohorts are so full of themselves. It's beyond mind boggling. She'll be in Sochi more as an activist than as an athlete seeing she is practically a non-factor in the competition.
    So why not use her voice as an athlete to speak up? Activist is not the right word... supporter is more like it. She isn't campaigning, she is simply not exercising silence when asked about an important issue. And whether she is a medal favourite or not (and she will likely win at least a team medal) shouldn't trivialize her show of support.

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