you have reason, it was not correct.
Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law
- Thread starter Taan
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you have reason, it was not correct.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Okay, reading the article again, you are blowing her comments way out of proportion gmyers:
- Ashley is against the controversial laws, and in interviews in Sochi, she intends to continue to talk about it (bear in mind, several athlete will be asked to talk about it and, like Ashley, some will speak their mind). She has not said what she will say about the laws, and presumably it will be questions that are initiated by interviewers (NBC has already said they are going to cover the anti-gay laws in Sochi, and you can bet she will be an athlete they speak to -- http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bob-cost...aws-during-olympics-wants-to-interview-putin/)
- Ashley is "looking into options such as rainbow nails [and] earrings while competing". She has not said exactly what these represent, and it cannot be construed as political propaganda as she has not said that it is intended to be as such. Rainbow pins are banned by the IOC, but rainbow nails and earrings are not. She certainly has not explicitly said anything akin to: "I'm going to wear rainbow nails and earrings in defiance of these laws", and until she says otherwise the rainbow pins can be seen as something as benign as a show of support for LGBT gays.
- If people want to attribute her rainbow nails as political propaganda, that is an extrapolation on their part. She has neither done nor said anything that violates Rule 50. And wearing rainbow nails isn't a violation of Rule 50 as per the statements she has thus far given.
She doesn't need rainbow nails to speak out against the laws, and she doesn't need to speak out against the laws for her to wear rainbow nails. While the two are related (because she supports LGBT), they're not cause-and-effect.
- Ashley is against the controversial laws, and in interviews in Sochi, she intends to continue to talk about it (bear in mind, several athlete will be asked to talk about it and, like Ashley, some will speak their mind). She has not said what she will say about the laws, and presumably it will be questions that are initiated by interviewers (NBC has already said they are going to cover the anti-gay laws in Sochi, and you can bet she will be an athlete they speak to -- http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bob-cost...aws-during-olympics-wants-to-interview-putin/)
- Ashley is "looking into options such as rainbow nails [and] earrings while competing". She has not said exactly what these represent, and it cannot be construed as political propaganda as she has not said that it is intended to be as such. Rainbow pins are banned by the IOC, but rainbow nails and earrings are not. She certainly has not explicitly said anything akin to: "I'm going to wear rainbow nails and earrings in defiance of these laws", and until she says otherwise the rainbow pins can be seen as something as benign as a show of support for LGBT gays.
- If people want to attribute her rainbow nails as political propaganda, that is an extrapolation on their part. She has neither done nor said anything that violates Rule 50. And wearing rainbow nails isn't a violation of Rule 50 as per the statements she has thus far given.
She doesn't need rainbow nails to speak out against the laws, and she doesn't need to speak out against the laws for her to wear rainbow nails. While the two are related (because she supports LGBT), they're not cause-and-effect.
It kind of makes it painfully obvious how some (Meryl and Charlie, cough) really are cowards when it comes to this issue. Oh well, they're going to win the gold medal so I guess that's the most important thing 
Anyway, all I can say to Ashley is, You Go Girl!!!
Anyway, all I can say to Ashley is, You Go Girl!!!- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I don't think she's that desperate for money and attention after winning a GP gold ($18,000) and silver ($13,000), and bronze at the GPF ($12,000).
Gracie, on the other hand, made as much money in her two GP events ($9000 + $3000) as Wagner got for her GPF bronze.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
It kind of makes it painfully obvious how some (Meryl and Charlie, cough) really are cowards when it comes to this issue. Oh well, they're going to win the gold medal so I guess that's the most important thing
While I wouldn't go as far as to say that the athletes remaining silent are cowards, I am quite dismayed that Ashley (and, to a lesser extent, Jeremy) are the only two skaters who have expressed their own opinions regarding the subject. Yes, it's the fundamental right of each athlete to hold his/her peace, but it's still disappointing that so many are just following the USOC's PR machine on a human rights issue like this.
- Joined
- May 4, 2013
Sorry, you're right.
My knowledge was limited to knowing they got to keep their medals, and how the IOC views the matter today:
Thanks for bringing me to read the entire wikipedia entry.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
CSG, please don't take it the wrong way when I question why you still bother responding to sky_fly's absurd theories. She's clearly biased against Ashley to a ridiculous degree, to the point where Ashley's stance on a human rights issue is enough cause for attack, and reasoning with her won't change her mind.
Pretty much everyone else on this forum knows that Ashley spoke out for her conscience alone.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
so if we can't be political, does that mean the athletes can't cheer on their teammates with the traditional "USA! USA! USA!" chant?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
It kind of makes it painfully obvious how some (Meryl and Charlie, cough) really are cowards when it comes to this issue. Oh well, they're going to win the gold medal so I guess that's the most important thing
It's their prerogative not say anything about the issue. It doesn't make them cowards. The onus isn't on them to fight for LGBT rights if they're not feeling up to it. I'd rather somebody speak up because they genuinely want to and not because they feel compelled to make a statement. People have the right to be silent just as much as they have the right to speak up.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
I'm so glad to read this!
Athletes just do not comment on the politics of the host country! Try to find any athlete in Beijing who said anything about Tibet or one child policy and what that means! Wagners thinking about how to criticize and oppose publicly and in the course of her sport display opposition to the host countries laws she doesn't like. If you think rule 50 won't apply if an athlete says something they do or wear means political opposition before the games but don't say it during its ok then that's your view. But where is the stuff about the press asking athletes in Beijing about Tibet or religious persecution or one child policy in china?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
CSG, please don't take it the wrong way when I question why you still bother responding to sky_fly's absurd theories. She's clearly biased against Ashley to a ridiculous degree, to the point where Ashley's stance on a human rights issue is enough cause for attack, and reasoning with her won't change her mind.
Fair enough. It was just ridiculous that sky_fly trivializes Ashley's speaking up as for money and attention, and using Gracie as a paradigm, when Ashley ($43,000) made well over 3 times as much as Gracie ($12,000) in GP prize money this year.
You're absolutely right...it is within Meryl and Charlie's rights to not speak up and disingenuously avoid talking about this issue when asked about it. It was also within the rights of German citizens who saw their Jewish neighbors being rounded up and murdered to not say anything. It was also well within the rights of Southern Americans who didn't believe in segregation and racial discrimination to choose not to speak up on behalf of their Black neighbors. This much is true. It is also true that those that did not speak up when they knew something was objectively wrong were cowards. One can be a coward and be within their rights to do what they want.
Anyway, I'm glad Ashley Wagner has the guts to call a spade a spade when she sees hateful language being bandied about. Again, Ashley, you go girl!
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
http://www.smh.com.au/news/beijing2...old-to-speak-up/2008/04/20/1208629731277.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/columns/story?id=3505425
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/31/humanrights.olympicgames2008
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/7547488.stm
http://www.bilerico.com/2008/08/lesbian_fencer_speaks_out_in_beijing.php
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/sports/othersports/01athletes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Russia is singled out in particular because the Anti-Gay Law was put into place so close to the Sochi Olympics. And while China has its shared of issues that need to be tackled, most likely none of them affected or were believed to have affected athletes and their teams directly.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
That is absolutely naive of you (and of the Russians and IOC) if they think that athletes will not be interviewed by major news outlets for their opinion.
Actually, since NBC is so vocal about the LGBT issues, and their logo is essentially a rainbow, and since logos are permitted on outfits, it'd be an amusing idea if NBC placed their logo on willing athletes' uniforms in lieu of a flag.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
Actually, GP prize money aside, the girls share so many sponsors that they're on pretty even ground. But ITA -- Ashley obviously spoke from the heart, and calling her an attention-seeker is just delusional.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
From the Olympic Charter "Fundamental Principles of Olympism":
1) Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example, social responsibility and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.
2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of humankind, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.
6. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement.
---
As Amaechi said, the charter calls on sport to be a way of harmoniously developing humankind, and promoting human dignity. The problem is that people are politicizing human rights/dignity and using its "political" nature as a so-called violation of Rule 50 in a desperate attempt to cause silence on LGBT issues during the Games.
Athletes like Wagner are upholding Fundamentals such as "social responsibility" and "preservation of human dignity" and preventing "discrimination of a person on grounds of 'otherwise' [i.e. being LGBT]", and people are condoning their expulsion. :disapp: Russia's anti-LGBT laws, on the other hand, are in violation of several of the Fundamental Principles of Olympism and yet they host the Games.
1) Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example, social responsibility and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.
2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of humankind, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.
6. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement.
---
As Amaechi said, the charter calls on sport to be a way of harmoniously developing humankind, and promoting human dignity. The problem is that people are politicizing human rights/dignity and using its "political" nature as a so-called violation of Rule 50 in a desperate attempt to cause silence on LGBT issues during the Games.
Athletes like Wagner are upholding Fundamentals such as "social responsibility" and "preservation of human dignity" and preventing "discrimination of a person on grounds of 'otherwise' [i.e. being LGBT]", and people are condoning their expulsion. :disapp: Russia's anti-LGBT laws, on the other hand, are in violation of several of the Fundamental Principles of Olympism and yet they host the Games.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
^ You've done it now! Don't you know the U.S. National Security Agency monitors this board (Edward Snowden revealed this). Expect the FBI to show up at Simon's door tomorrow.
yep, and next time we go to the states, one can be on the terrorist list and blacklisted forever :disapp:
That is absolutely naive of you (and of the Russians and IOC) if they think that athletes will not be interviewed by major news outlets for their opinion.
Actually, since NBC is so vocal about the LGBT issues, and their logo is essentially a rainbow, and since logos are permitted on outfits, it'd be an amusing idea if NBC placed their logo on willing athletes' uniforms in lieu of a flag.
The links were athletes pre Beijing but in Beijing where were Tibet questions after a relay or swimming event? I don't remember phelps on Christian persecution or one child policy. If reporters could contain themselves in china why not Russia? Unless everyone just decides Russia isn't worth the respect of not attacking the hosts laws and government and people. Because these laws aren't just edicts from unelected people.
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