Boston Globe article on the demise of the "American Ice Queen" | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Boston Globe article on the demise of the "American Ice Queen"

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
nd Well the phenomenum of the death of the American Ice princess is more than just females. It is in men's , pairs and dance as well. Not only is there a decline in skating popularity because of many reasons including the complex scoring system and the inability to comprehend it and the whining about the judging is a turn off as well (sorry fans or fanatics or ... we are in some ways our worst enemies for the sport and art we love). The more we and everyone whines doesn't help. THe new rules also made the skating more generic just different music. You can no longer do a beautiful open single axel or whatever because it doesn't get you the points. And everyone is trying to increase the levels and thus the spins and all aren't so pretty or are more based on what will maximize my point value. The programs look the same with different music and how different really is the music - can we say Carmen? Four Seasons? Scherazadae? Otonal? Swan Lake? And sadly the personalities are all rather bland or princessy. Even the beloved Davis and White while great skaters are not as charismatic say as Bestmianova and Bukin or Gritschuk and Plato, they do not have the excellent skill level of say Bourne and Kraatz and their programs and chemistry are not of the Usova and zhullin era before the marital rift or Pomanrenko and Klimova. Off the ice hey are like pablum - Miss America answers and comments to the media. Now if they showed Meryl as the witch who was say vexing Virtue and Moir well that would be more noticeable and of interest or Charlie as the bad boy well things might be different. Currently Gracie and Ashley both are blondish and beautiful but rather bland. Princess/miss america answers. Pretty and femininene and graceful look but they have not distinguished themsevles - musically, program wise, jumps, spins or charisma on ice. Fans of each may say they have a lot of personality but sorry that is not conveyed well on or off the ice. The Ice princess is no more right now. It would help if she medals first too at worlds and the olympics. I think Ashley might medal but it is far from a guarantee.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I used to think it was largely because of COP, but now I think there are too many entertainment options now. The entertainment options geared towards men haven't changed much (i.e. they are mostly interested in sports), but women have so much more to choose from: reality shows, gossip shows, cooking shows, etc. Only the most uber skating fans care more about how Ashley performs than what a Kardashian wore yesterday. Perhaps it's sad but it's the world we live in now.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I used to think it was largely because of COP, but now I think there are too many entertainment options now. The entertainment options geared towards men haven't changed much (i.e. they are mostly interested in sports), but women have so much more to choose from: reality shows, gossip shows, cooking shows, etc. Only the most uber skating fans care more about how Ashley performs than what a Kardashian wore yesterday. Perhaps it's sad but it's the world we live in now.

This is actually a really good point. Professional sports and pop culture will always be more 'important' and it's naive to think figure skating can compete with that.

People keep blaming the system, long footwork sequences, etc. but to be honest, maybe we should accept that our sport simply isn't as interesting to the average person as we think it is. I'm sure there are equestrian jumpers or synchronized swimmers or handballers or curlers who think their sport is the bomb but lament about its lack of popularity compared to pro-sports.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
they need a new star which can keep the media's interest and the medals to prop up
Gracie Gold fits this, she is young, fresh, a jumper and has then Beauty Queen Aura
something I don't see in Wagner who has a plain personality and not as attractive physically compared to Gracie Gold

How does Gracie fit this? A GP silver/7th and bronze/4th over two seasons doesn't exactly scream star to me. Wagner on the other hand has 2 US titles, a 4CC title, several wins and medals on the GP, never placing lower than 5th. One of the only consistent US female skaters since the time of Kwan/Cohen.

You're entitled to your opinion about Wagner's personality or physical attractiveness (I personally think Wagner is more attractive, plus she skates with way more spunk than Gold), but I'm sure the majority disagree with your assessment of Wagner having a "plain" personality.

Regardless, a Gracie Gold or Ashley Wagner isn't some magical solution to figure skating's popularity or lackthereof.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Gold doesn't really fit yet based on imo the lack of natural artistic ability and results. At least right now. However I think Wagner and Gold are both very pretty girls. Looks aren't the problem for neither Gold or Wagner.
 

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Makes me wonder what the last few years of gladiator sports looked like. I imagine it was growing repugnance, disinterest, alternate interest etc, followed perhaps then by a waning quality of the fights, scarcity of venues, then followed by interval spurts of renewed interest but always back to patterns of decline. Maybe it evolved into something else but either way at some point that ancient blood sport as we know it was gone. I imagine there must be some modern day equivalents of big sports that are in their final days. Boxing? American Football? (you never know with all the injuries, subsequent lawsuits and rule changes). Maybe Figure Skating IS the best example of what a dying modern sport looks like. I hope not; there is so much more talent today. But there is also so many more distractions nowadays also. I hear more kids nowadays don't even watch TV anymore; they don't need too. I think it is too easy to just blame COP for what could be a cultural shift in recreational interests and attitudes. One thing for sure, the "dinosaurs" aren't helping.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
the demise of figure skating in america? duh. figure skating is not even considered as a sport among the regular audience..even if you have a dominant figure it will never reach the popularity in the mainstream media.. they always see this as too "feminine"..
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I think the article is right. For the ladies, COP has made it very hard for skaters to show personality/artistry and also be a consistent winner. Yu Na Kim is the exception that proves the rule (and I don't even find her all that artistic). Add to that an opaque scoring system that only superfans understand completely. The old system was more viewer-friendly and more likely to reward mistake-free skates at the highest level. As Dick Button said in his book, the solution to corrupt judging should have been to get rid of the corrupt judges. Instead, the scoring system was changed to make it more difficult to detect cheating and the corrupt judges were reinstated. It is true that skating is still doing well in Asia but will it when Yu Na and Mao leave the scene? They are really the only two ladies skaters in the world who can sell tickets and that doesn't bode well for the future of the sport.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Skating also had a lot more interesting personalities back in the day. Nicole Bobek, Bonaly, Harding (for better or worse), Baiul, and the list goes on. There was glamor and overblown drama. Much of the fluff pieces ran like reality tv shows. Nowadays, the public personalities of skaters are much tamer and people turn to actual reality tv shows to get their dose of drama.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
the demise of figure skating in america? duh. figure skating is not even considered as a sport among the regular audience..even if you have a dominant figure it will never reach the popularity in the mainstream media.. they always see this as too "feminine"..

I think this sums this up, a feminine oriented sport is not considered a sport in the US
thus the funny jokes on FS
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Ashley is beautiful...those eyes...and she's a lovely, polished, complete skater, with some of the most memorable programs. Even the Queen has not skated anything as interesting as Swan, S&D or Rand J since Vancouver, with one exception, Les Mis LP. I think the scoring is killing new fans interest. Just as Gymnastics scoring is confusing. Sport is a game, and if one does not know rules, interest wanes. I do not watch football. Maybe I would if I understood the rules.

We know CoP is a factor. Also lack of a very dominant female star like Kwan, and the garbage showing bizarre bits of American culture on TV. Also, people of all ages are in relationship to their cell phones. Facebook, twitter, text, God only knows, it takes up lots of time. When people demand movies, minseries, PBS type programming, we will get better shows. But most of the people who care about Tv culture are over 50 at least. Skating is not appreciated as it was once artistic. Not so much now. Look at Ballet companies? The babyboomers still dictate what goes in America. I guess many like the trash TV we have now.

And lastly, a good scandal in FS would help.;)
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
even if you change the scoring system.. even if you go back to 6.0 era.. even if you have scandal or whatever..even if you have an American skater that will rise in this olympic season or beyond.. it doesn't change the fact that figure skating is not a first class sport for the mainstream media because it is not a sport for them!!!
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
That it is a boring sport is a good point,I know, we love FS but look the most popular skating videos, are little girls skating funny music. I know kids are adorables and super cute but her programs are "funny", the little girl skating "whip my hair" is getting 15 million of visits, the girl is skating a popular song with much spark :rock::popcorn:, so, may be it will be good for the popularity of the sport the songs with lyrics the next season, classical music bore most people, I don´t know why but it is true.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
I think this sums this up, a feminine oriented sport is not considered a sport in the US
thus the funny jokes on FS

but people watch dancing with the stars :confused:, and they want to know who will win, it is the same, many people say it is not a sport but they want to watch it, why???, why not FS???.
And I don´t know why people keep saying that the new system is very complicated, ok, I know it is complicate but the 6.0 system was not easier, they only said the score 5.4, 5.6, 6.0,etc., and never explain why those points, so, the scoring is difficult to understand in any system.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Clearly, the CoP is not "that big" of an issue because you have skaters who still thrive despite the "horrid new scoring system that no one understands". There is a reason why skating thrives in Japan.

It's because people actually like watching it there and they have people who actually win! You have stars like Shizuka Arakawa, Mao Asada, Daisuke Takahashi who have all won under this system at one point or another. The latter two also have a loyal fanbase built up over years and years of competing. Japanese TV always airs important competitions--hell, I've even seen Japanese commentary on U.S. Nationals videos on YouTube. There is wider marketing of the sport and big support of its athletes than in the United States.

Mao Asada gets endorsements, Yuna Kim gets endorsements, Kiira Korpi gets endorsements, Daisuke Takahashi gets endorsements, Carolina Kostner gets endorsements. They are all most likely richer than you and our wealth compared to theirs is probably pitiful. And they have all thrived under CoP.

Look, this is Kansai University throwing Daisuke and Tatsuki a "good luck in Sochi" party:

http://magicaleggplant.tumblr.com/post/72693244289/daisuke-and-tatsuki-at-kansai-universitys-olympic

The university threw them a rally. It's as if they actually care about their athletes! :eek:

And Davis/White are arguably more loved in Japan than they are in the United States, so there's that. The Japanese public appreciate D/W regardless of whatever judging system they are competing under.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
but people watch dancing with the stars :confused:, and they want to know who will win, it is the same, many people say it is not a sport but they want to watch it, why???, why not FS???.
And I don´t know why people keep saying that the new system is very complicated, ok, I know it is complicate but the 6.0 system was not easier, they only said the score 5.4, 5.6, 6.0,etc., and never explain why those points, so, the scoring is difficult to understand in any system.

they watch Dancing Wtth the Stars for entertainment and fun in TV/Media readily available, nobody watches it for sport obviously
 

Johar

Medalist
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
And DWTS has celebs in it, even if they are C-listers. After being around people who only watch every 4 years, they often feel the slow, classical music is BORING most of the time.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
they watch Dancing Wtth the Stars for entertainment and fun in TV/Media readily available, nobody watches it for sport obviously

sport is entertainment too, people just watch sports for entertainment and fun. People in her houses watch sports eating nachos, pop corn , drinking coca-cola, just like in movies.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
The extremely sexist nature of this discussion says it all - Americans are obsessed with the concept of an Ice Princess. Why not an Ice Prince? The top men are all good-looking, charming, personable, and mighty athletes. There's a goldmine of marketing there that is just being perpetually ignored!

It's time to be bold! It's time to bust stereotypes! Bring Battle of the Blades to the US. Perhaps have a "greatest athlete" style contest and pitch a skater against football players and the like!
 

Zamboni

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
I'm not even sure if a winning American would help all that much. Compare the endorsements of Mary Lou Retton versus Nastia Liukin or Gabby Douglas. You hardly see the last two Gymnastics All Around Champions anywhere.

Nastia Liukin did very well for herself, with many corporate endorsements and television appearances. She has her own line of gymnastics equipment, and an event called the Nastia Liukin (Supergirl) Cup.

As for Gabby, they just made (or are making) a movie of her life which will appear on Lifetime in February, I believe, in addition to many television appearances and corporate endorsements. There are some estimates that Gabby could make as much as $10 million out of her two gold medals.

So the last two AA champs are doing just fine :)
 
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