Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 152

Thread: Ashley Wagner's chance of an Olympics Medal after Nationals

  1. #16
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,960
    Welcome, Red Helicopter. Thanks for joining in. Post often, post long!

  2. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,379
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I wonder if these same people consider Lipnitskaia to be the fake winner of Cup of Russia?

    Certainly the vast majority of people on this board are fine with the results of Russian nationals.

    In terms of comparing Mao and Wagner. As much as Mao is a legend in comparison to Akiko, Ashley has been far more successful in comparison to Gold. The point being, you can't really negate the results (especially this season) of Mao or Ashley just because they lost at Nationals (if Ashley even loses).
    Sotnikova has overrated PCS, something the judges should be ashamed of, who is she the heir to European Carolina Kostner that they love giving her huge PCS so much? If you cant land the jumps, PCS should be affected, getting a 60+ PCS with 3 falls is just wrong

    Wagner also cant negate taht when gold is clean she will always be behind Gold
    I already reminded you a scenario, Czisny had a good 2011 GP then dropped the stocks since the GPF, did her GP wins mean anything ? No Wagner even beat her at Nationals, this looks a repeat scenario with Gold now placing ahead of Wagner
    then after nationals, was Alissa a contender for Worlds ? she wasn't, she placed 22nd !

  3. #18
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,828
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Sotnikova has overrated PCS, something the judges should be ashamed of, who is she the heir to European Carolina Kostner that they love giving her huge PCS so much? If you cant land the jumps, PCS should be affected, getting a 60+ PCS with 3 falls is just wrong
    Oh really? And how do you feel about Lipnitskaia getting 63.64 PCS at CoR with a fall, multiple doubled jumps, and just 3 successful triples?

  4. #19
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    876
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post


    Unless you are psychic and can see into the future, why don't you let them actually finish the competition before starting this thread. Just in case you don't know, the winner isn't crowned until the competition is over. Gracie won the sp and kudos to her, but the job isn't finished yet. Winning the sp doesn't equal winning the title and not winning the sp doesn't equal losing the title either.

    In short the competition is still in progress so why don't we wait to see where everyone places before we have this discussion...
    ditto!!!!!!

  5. #20
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I wonder if these same people consider Lipnitskaia to be the fake winner of Cup of Russia?
    Maybe some of them do.

    Certainly the vast majority of people on this board are fine with the results of Russian nationals.
    Ultimate thuth doesn't belong to this board

    In terms of comparing Mao and Wagner. As much as Mao is a legend in comparison to Akiko, Ashley has been far more successful in comparison to Gold. The point being, you can't really negate the results (especially this season) of Mao or Ashley just because they lost at Nationals (if Ashley even loses).
    I don't really think you're right, Ashley has no results that could be called really successfull. Yes, she was definitely #1 before this day but the gap between her and Gold is not so huge as in Japan between Mao and others.
    You should also consider skater's potential to get better points. And definitely Gold with her jumping content is a favourite from this point of view. If she will prove she can perform it and earn higher points, why not become #1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Welcome, Red Helicopter. Thanks for joining in. Post often, post long!
    Thx
    Sorry if my English is not so good.

  6. #21
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,406
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Helicopter View Post
    I don't really think you're right, Ashley has no results that could be called really successfull. Yes, she was definitely #1 before this day but the gap between her and Gold is not so huge as in Japan between Mao and others.
    If you look at results rather than public perception, the gap between Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold is similar, if not greater, than the one between Mao Asada and Akiko Suzuki. Gold's last win at any level of competition was when she became the junior national champion at the same time that Wagner won her first national title (2012). Since then, Wagner has won 4CC, three grand prix events, and another national title, and has won a number of other medals, including at the most recent GPF. In that same time frame, Gold has two GP medals and two senior B medals. Wagner is clearly the more successful international skater at this point.

  7. #22
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    If you look at results rather than public perception, the gap between Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold is similar, if not greater, than the one between Mao Asada and Akiko Suzuki. Gold's last win at any level of competition was when she became the junior national champion at the same time that Wagner won her first national title (2012). Since then, Wagner has won 4CC, three grand prix events, and another national title, and has won a number of other medals, including at the most recent GPF. In that same time frame, Gold has two GP medals and two senior B medals. Wagner is clearly the more successful international skater at this point.
    Look: in Japan you can say that there's Mao - and there're all the others. Can you say the same in USA about Ashley? I don't think so.
    You really think this Wagner's level is really the one that is expected from USA's #1? I think she became #1 just because of lack of another good skaters in USA.

  8. #23
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,405
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Sotnikova has overrated PCS, something the judges should be ashamed of, who is she the heir to European Carolina Kostner that they love giving her huge PCS so much?
    Sotnikova's PCS aren't as overrated as you'd like to think. Anyone with eyeballs (and an objective mind) can see that she meets the PCS requirements quite well. Give credit where credit is due...though I realize that's pretty much impossible for you to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    If you cant land the jumps, PCS should be affected, getting a 60+ PCS with 3 falls is just wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Oh really? And how do you feel about Lipnitskaia getting 63.64 PCS at CoR with a fall, multiple doubled jumps, and just 3 successful triples?
    Yeah, explain that why don't you...

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I already reminded you a scenario, Czisny had a good 2011 GP then dropped the stocks since the GPF, did her GP wins mean anything ? No Wagner even beat her at Nationals, this looks a repeat scenario with Gold now placing ahead of Wagner
    then after nationals, was Alissa a contender for Worlds ? she wasn't, she placed 22nd !
    Your reference to Alissa does not illustrate your point. Alissa didn't lose her rep with the judges after one competition...that happened over the course of the season where she consistently under-performed and culminated with her disastrous showing at worlds where she placed 22nd b/c she fell about 7 times. Of course Ashley beat her...she didn't even put up a fight!

    You may want to dig for a better example than that...


    Quote Originally Posted by Red Helicopter View Post
    I don't really think you're right, Ashley has no results that could be called really successfull.
    By US ladies standards, Ashley is THE most successful lady of this quad. She and Alissa are the only two US ladies to stand on top of a podium at a major ISU event since 2007. Ashley was a middle-of-the-pack skater for a year after Vancouver but still placed top 5 at all of her events. After 2012 she started climbing and she has maintained her positioning since.

    Next to the success of some of the other world competitors it may not look like much, but in the US, Ashley is the best competitor for the ladies since the days of Michelle and Sasha. Again, credit needs to be given where credit is due.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Helicopter View Post
    You should also consider skater's potential to get better points. And definitely Gold with her jumping content is a favourite from this point of view. If she will prove she can perform it and earn higher points, why not become #1?
    It's no secret that Gracie's potential is higher than Ashley's, but in this sport potential counts for nothing if you can't deliver when it's go-time. No one is questioning whether or not Gracie should be #1 b/c she should...but she has to earn it. She hasn't done anything yet! Ashley has kicked her butt consistently over the last two seasons. One clean SP from Gracie does not erase the last 3 years of success Ashley's had.

    Ashley won nationals convincingly in 2012 and then proved that her win wasn't a fluke by winning 4CC and placing 4th at worlds...since then she's consistently performed well, stood on every single podium except for worlds last year where she placed 5th...and still beat out Gracie.

    To be the #1 national skater you first have to establish yourself as the #1 by winning nationals and then you have to defend your position by continuing to place above the rest of your teammates otherwise your win is going to look like nothing more than a fluke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Helicopter View Post
    You really think this Wagner's level is really the one that is expected from USA's #1? I think she became #1 just because of lack of another good skaters in USA.
    Doesn't change the fact that she was still the best the US had to offer. No one has stepped up to challenge Ashley for it. Gracie made the first step but in order to become #1 she needs to deliver in the FS...and then back up her win by being the best US skater in Sochi.

    Very simply put: "If you want it, come get it"

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,607
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Oh really? And how do you feel about Lipnitskaia getting 63.64 PCS at CoR with a fall, multiple doubled jumps, and just 3 successful triples?
    Can we say Mao Asada?????

  10. #25
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,607
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Sotnikova's PCS aren't as overrated as you'd like to think. Anyone with eyeballs (and an objective mind) can see that she meets the PCS requirements quite well. Give credit where credit is due...though I realize that's pretty much impossible for you to do.




    Yeah, explain that why don't you...



    Your reference to Alissa does not illustrate your point. Alissa didn't lose her rep with the judges after one competition...that happened over the course of the season where she consistently under-performed and culminated with her disastrous showing at worlds where she placed 22nd b/c she fell about 7 times. Of course Ashley beat her...she didn't even put up a fight!

    You may want to dig for a better example than that...




    By US ladies standards, Ashley is THE most successful lady of this quad. She and Alissa are the only two US ladies to stand on top of a podium at a major ISU event since 2007. Ashley was a middle-of-the-pack skater for a year after Vancouver but still placed top 5 at all of her events. After 2012 she started climbing and she has maintained her positioning since.

    Next to the success of some of the other world competitors it may not look like much, but in the US, Ashley is the best competitor for the ladies since the days of Michelle and Sasha. Again, credit needs to be given where credit is due.



    It's no secret that Gracie's potential is higher than Ashley's, but in this sport potential counts for nothing if you can't deliver when it's go-time. No one is questioning whether or not Gracie should be #1 b/c she should...but she has to earn it. She hasn't done anything yet! Ashley has kicked her butt consistently over the last two seasons. One clean SP from Gracie does not erase the last 3 years of success Ashley's had.

    Ashley won nationals convincingly in 2012 and then proved that her win wasn't a fluke by winning 4CC and placing 4th at worlds...since then she's consistently performed well, stood on every single podium except for worlds last year where she placed 5th...and still beat out Gracie.

    To be the #1 national skater you first have to establish yourself as the #1 by winning nationals and then you have to defend your position by continuing to place above the rest of your teammates otherwise your win is going to look like nothing more than a fluke.



    Doesn't change the fact that she was still the best the US had to offer. No one has stepped up to challenge Ashley for it. Gracie made the first step but in order to become #1 she needs to deliver in the FS...and then back up her win by being the best US skater in Sochi.

    Very simply put: "If you want it, come get it"
    I agree Gracie has huge potential and probably more than Wagner. She is doing great at Nats so far but one performance or competiion doesn't make you NO. 1. Besides both ladies are fairly close at world's last year. Cetainly if GOld wins Nats and oly's we will have a new no 1 American girl so to speak. Both are fine young ladies, pretty and good skaters - I wish them luck.

  11. #26
    Custard Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Sotnikova has overrated PCS, something the judges should be ashamed of, who is she the heir to European Carolina Kostner that they love giving her huge PCS so much? If you cant land the jumps, PCS should be affected, getting a 60+ PCS with 3 falls is just wrong

    Lipnitskaya also cant negate taht when Sotnikova is clean she will always be behind Sotnikova
    Well then, she's the perfect heiress to Kostner. Neither one can skate clean, after all.

    And I fixed your sentence for you.

  12. #27
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,296
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Sotnikova's PCS aren't as overrated as you'd like to think. Anyone with eyeballs (and an objective mind) can see that she meets the PCS requirements quite well. Give credit where credit is due...though I realize that's pretty much impossible for you to do.




    Yeah, explain that why don't you...



    Your reference to Alissa does not illustrate your point. Alissa didn't lose her rep with the judges after one competition...that happened over the course of the season where she consistently under-performed and culminated with her disastrous showing at worlds where she placed 22nd b/c she fell about 7 times. Of course Ashley beat her...she didn't even put up a fight!

    You may want to dig for a better example than that...




    By US ladies standards, Ashley is THE most successful lady of this quad. She and Alissa are the only two US ladies to stand on top of a podium at a major ISU event since 2007. Ashley was a middle-of-the-pack skater for a year after Vancouver but still placed top 5 at all of her events. After 2012 she started climbing and she has maintained her positioning since.

    Next to the success of some of the other world competitors it may not look like much, but in the US, Ashley is the best competitor for the ladies since the days of Michelle and Sasha. Again, credit needs to be given where credit is due.



    It's no secret that Gracie's potential is higher than Ashley's, but in this sport potential counts for nothing if you can't deliver when it's go-time. No one is questioning whether or not Gracie should be #1 b/c she should...but she has to earn it. She hasn't done anything yet! Ashley has kicked her butt consistently over the last two seasons. One clean SP from Gracie does not erase the last 3 years of success Ashley's had.

    Ashley won nationals convincingly in 2012 and then proved that her win wasn't a fluke by winning 4CC and placing 4th at worlds...since then she's consistently performed well, stood on every single podium except for worlds last year where she placed 5th...and still beat out Gracie.

    To be the #1 national skater you first have to establish yourself as the #1 by winning nationals and then you have to defend your position by continuing to place above the rest of your teammates otherwise your win is going to look like nothing more than a fluke.



    Doesn't change the fact that she was still the best the US had to offer. No one has stepped up to challenge Ashley for it. Gracie made the first step but in order to become #1 she needs to deliver in the FS...and then back up her win by being the best US skater in Sochi.

    Very simply put: "If you want it, come get it"
    Yes Ashley has had much greater success then Gracie has had over the last couple years but when you look at head to head matchup's Ashley except for the first meeting between the two of them at the 2012 WTT where Ashley beat her by 10 points the last three time they've met Wager has won by 2.27 3.09 and ,57 points. I wouldn't call that kicking someone's ***. Looks to me that Gracie is right there with Wagner and just needs to skate clean to finally beat her.

  13. #28
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Can we say Mao Asada?????

  14. #29
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,881
    Ashley just didn't look like a world class skater with her short. If I just had come out of long coma and watching skating, I would never have thought she was the defending champion at this event. She didn't appear competitive against the skaters in her own country, let alone the world. The 3/3 was probably brought on much too late in her career and it it hard to understand why her coaches allowed that to happen.

  15. #30
    ♔Princess Li Zijun♔ Gigi13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    247
    Well, we have to see the free program before we jump to any conclusions and just because those 3 skaters didn't win nationals doesn't mean we should count them out, they can still deliver at Sochi and anything can happen.

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •