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Thread: Plushenko changes mind, demands Sochi place

  1. #61
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    Nobody of us really knows whats happening there at Russia, we all just speculate based on what we read somewhere. A few days ago I read an article claiming that Plushenko has offered his spot at Sochi to Kovtun, now again he is the evil guy who tries to start a fight?

    That's all very weird

    I also doubt that you can compare the rules & regulations we in Germany have with those at Russia. As far I understand, they do not have any type of qualification process, so that the performance based on nationals has no real value. Why he can´t or wont compete at Budapest is something he knows, we again only speculate.

    In the end we are not only talking about a medal for the men´s (unlikely), but a gold medal in the team. The experience of Plushenko could play a major role there and Russia is the host nation, they want to have the best skaters on the ice.

    That said, I don't defend bad manners - but it is understandable that someone wants to compete at Sochi and if the Russian Federation has no clear regulations, then it is everyone´s right to ask for consideration until a decision has been made.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    read it:

    http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/vi...t=6&start=2670

    and

    Plushy's "control skating" 21.01. in Novgorsk!

    http://itar-tass.com/sport/880495


    and yes, you don't forget what happened with Daisuke
    About Daisuke: As I said back then, I'm a big fan of all 3 and knew I'd be sad for 2 of them.

    So, how exactly does this control skating evaluate who's the better of the 2, if there's only 1 skater?

    Seriously, you have every right to be a fan of Plushy. But when he acts this poorly, I think it wouldn't be a mortal sin for you to agree he's acting poorly.
    He should have gone to Euros. If it's Mishin who said "NO!!!", then remember that Plushy is old enough to drive, to vote and to drink vodka, so he's old enough to make his own decision as to what to do, and then he has to live with those decisions. We all have to.
    Just a thought.

  3. #63
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    IMO, even if Plushenko skates at Euros, it's really unfair to Menshov after being named to the Euro team after Nationals when Plushenko refused to go. I know he's Plushenko and all, but he thinks he can just play by his rules and will be handed the spot. Like, does he not even remember his FS at Russian nationals? Does he actually think he has shown the mettle to compete well in Sochi better than Kovtun?

    As for Dai, he is far too classy and polite to ever make comments that would blast another skater - let alone a compatriot. He would have understood if he wasn't on the Japanese team and he owns up to his mistakes. He knows he messed up at Nationals and is grateful for being named to the team. Plushenko skated as poorly in his Russian nationals and thinks he deserves to be handed the Olympic spot just because of his past success -- moreover, he thinks Kovtun should be denied an Olympic spot because of Kovtun's past failures.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex D View Post
    In the end we are not only talking about a medal for the men´s (unlikely), but a gold medal in the team. The experience of Plushenko could play a major role there and Russia is the host nation, they want to have the best skaters on the ice.

    That said, I don't defend bad manners - but it is understandable that someone wants to compete at Sochi and if the Russian Federation has no clear regulations, then it is everyone´s right to ask for consideration until a decision has been made.
    I agree, but there's a way about asking for consideration. But to skip any qualification events especially after losing Nationals and then slamming another skater while resting on your laurels isn't the way to do it.

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    I don't care if Plushenko has more of a chance of getting on the podium. I'd rather see Kovtun go. He earned his place.

    And I'm really side-eyeing Plushenko after his comments.

  6. #66
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    Plushenko is such a whiny betch. Yes, Kovtun placed 17th at last year's Worlds so what does that say if he can beat you at Nationals? At this point, if Plushenko sprains his hip, he'll blame it on Tarasova's laughter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I agree with you, but just to be specific: The Japanese Federation's published rules just described different criteria that would "get you on the list of candidates of whom the Japanese Federation can decide who goes". Those rules didn't describe at all what criteria would be considered more important for the final decision over another.
    Takahashi, Kozuka and Oda all were on that list, and then the JF made their decision of who they wanted to get the 3rd spot between the 3. After the JN was over, there was a lot of nailbiting before the JF announced their decision.


    You're absolutely right. And since Plushenko is a Figure Skater, he should fight on the ice. Meaning go to Euros. He's fighting by using words.

    According to his approach, then Katarina Witt, who's 48 years old now, could claim the German Spot. She's had great successes in the past, Nathalie Weinzierl (who's going to Sochi) didn't earn Germany more than 1 spot at last year's Worlds, and Witt wouldn't need to prove that she's better...

    Apparently, when she came back in 1994, Witt was willing to put up with more pesky qualifying than Plushenko does now:
    - she, Tanja Szewczenko and Marina Kielmann beat Simone Lang and Evelyn Grossmann (90'EC) at German Nationals for the 3 spots at Euros,
    - she and Tanja Szewczenko beat Marina Kielmann (3rd at 93'EC and 4th at 94'WC) at Euros for the 2 German spots at Lillehammer
    - she fulfilled the German NOC criterium of finishing within the top 8 at 94 Euros!

    Not fulfilling any one of those 3 criteria would have meant no Olympics for the double Olympic Champion.

    Plushenko failed the 1st criterium: winning Nationals. They gave him a second shot: to beat Kovtun at Euros, but he refused.
    And now, just before Euros, he speaks rather than skate.
    Does anyone know the deadline for Federations to change their entries for Euros? That list comprises Entries and Substitutes, so even if every Russian skater on that list said he's injured and withdraws, if Plushenko isn't on the list, he can't go.
    Did Plushenko wait on purpose for this statement until it was too late for him to be allowed to go to Euros?
    I was never totally sold that Katerina deserved to go to the 94 olympics not that my opinon counts. i felt the judges held her up forget she is the best competitor or thel uckiest or both. How she beat Couinard and such. the woman is golden. But I think we cantwists the rules or selection process to whatever we want to see or happen. on a purely non rule approach it would be fun to see Plushy skate one more olympic but then again it is also nice to give others a chance. Sometimes there is what is fair and there is what is "good" for the sport - some mahy say then send Kovutun who earned it and some would say who will bring in the veiwers.

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    IMO there is a lot going on behind the scenes here that we don't know about. First, if there was some sort of agreement to swap Plushy out for Kotvun after the team event, Plushy demanding to skate both is necessary in order for him to withdraw "injured". Second, Russia has investing quite a bit of money and resources to have Plushenko train for Sochi, so he is somewhat obligated to appear that he is fighting for the spot rather than giving up after receiving the financial windfall he did from the Russian Fed. Third, if the Russian Fed does want him on the team it is likely they played a role in having him not participate in Euros so Kotvun does not have another chance to beat him. I'm not saying Plushenko is blameless in all this but I think the Russian Federation is playing a much larger part in these communications than many people realize.

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    Plushenko gave up the fight pulling out of euros and in fact not competing anywhere in January.

  10. #70
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    1. The Russian Fed never said the Rus Nat Champion will go to the Oly.
    2. We need to waite how will skate Kovtun in ECH.
    3. We need to wait how will skate Plushy on test skate.
    4. What will happen if Kovtun won't handle the stress in team competition and the Russian team says good bye the gold medal or the silver? I don't think Kovtun has chance win a medal in individual competiton, and I think Plushy has not much more but...So the team event is more important for the Russians
    5. We don't know what happens in the background....But if Plushenko said something that get huge interest..and so easy criticise him..
    6. Most of the Russians want him as a competitor.
    7. This decision will be the Rus Fed and the coach and expert's decision not Plushy's decision..He said he is ready for compete in team and individual competitons not only in the team comp.
    8. I don't see so big difference between Daisuke and Plushy. I love Daisuke but his results in this year wasn't really great. And he was 5th on Nationals.
    9. Personally I wanted to if he goes to the EC.
    10. He skated badly 2-3 times in his career, this was one of them. He knows he can do better..As Piseev said Plushy begun the preparation too late, he has no time..I really think he should get one more chance .. this chance is a tes skate..do you think this is too much????

  11. #71
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    It's always been a part of the rules that euros or Russia cup final or even that event between makarova and shelepen that time that if you do bad at nationals you can compete later and that will be factored in the selection process. Nationals is and has never Been he final say but in this instance plushenko is not competitng anywhere against anyone. It would seem the process is over by all precedent. This test skate for one is new and will it even happen? THe lack of precedent makes me question the whole thing.

  12. #72
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    I think a bigger issue is that he hasn't competed internationally at all this season at any GP event or ISU championship. Why he wouldn't take the opportunity to skate at Euros is beyond me, but as others have said, I suspect it's because he doesn't want to compete against Kovtun and potentially lose again.

    This loss has already called into question whether he'd be the right guy, a second loss would be a nail in the coffin.

    It's incredibly silly that Plushenko is opting for some test skate. If Kovtun lost Russian nationals, you think he'd get the luxury of a test skate?

    How do you determine who is the "better" skater if you don't consider the times that they compete against each other?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    1. The Russian Fed never said the Rus Nat Champion will go to the Oly.
    2. We need to waite how will skate Kovtun in ECH.
    3. We need to wait how will skate Plushy on test skate.
    4. What will happen if Kovtun won't handle the stress in team competition and the Russian team says good bye the gold medal or the silver? I don't think Kovtun has chance win a medal in individual competiton, and I think Plushy has not much more but...So the team event is more important for the Russians
    5. We don't know what happens in the background....But if Plushenko said something that get huge interest..and so easy criticise him..
    6. Most of the Russians want him as a competitor.
    7. This decision will be the Rus Fed and the coach and expert's decision not Plushy's decision..He said he is ready for compete in team and individual competitons not only in the team comp.
    8. I don't see so big difference between Daisuke and Plushy. I love Daisuke but his results in this year wasn't really great. And he was 5th on Nationals.
    9. Personally I wanted to if he goes to the EC.
    10. He skated badly 2-3 times in his career, this was one of them. He knows he can do better..As Piseev said Plushy begun the preparation too late, he has no time..I really think he should get one more chance .. this chance is a tes skate..do you think this is too much????
    A) That's a lot of bullet points!
    B) It's difficult to compare 2. and 3. if 3. isn't present at 2.; and 2. isn't present at 3. The test skate won't really be as stressful as the EC, now, will it? I guess if Plushy has a bad day during his test skate, they'll say "ok, 2 out of 3!" - that's what I do when I play "rock paper scissors"
    C) There will always be the question "would Plushy have done any better?" hence the obvious -imo- solution: let them both compete side by side...
    D) Who will lead the committee to judge Plushy's private test skate? Mishin? Plushy has rightfully earned a lot of influence and influential friends in his Federation...
    E) about 8.: Daisuke won the NHK Trophy on November 10, 2013. With 268.31 points and a wow-performance. What did Plushy do in an ISU competition this season? So... No, there is no comparison whatsoever, sorry. Daisuke earned his spot on the "list of candidates according to the JF rules". (I hoped Kozuka would get the 3rd spot, by the way!)
    F) about 9.: I'm glad to hear that - or read
    G) I agree he should get 1 more chance - or he should have gotten that chance. We just disagree on what that chance should be or have been. You: private test skate; me: Euros, next to his competition for the Olympic Spot.
    H) all we can do is wait and see...
    I) no, I think that's it from me!

  14. #74
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    No kovtun would not have gotten a test skate but he would have went to euros and competed agian so the whole point is irrelevent. When kovtun got the euros spot in 2013 and the other Russian men did cor final those were compared to send kovtun to worlds. All the skaters were in a competitive environment. That's been the standard for selection. Who has their idea of the best performance in a competitive environment closest to the main event - worlds Olympics- whatever. Here one skater has said no to all of it! I think that's clear indicator of total retirement from sports. The Russian fed know he has a fan base so maybe that's what the test skates about. If there even is one for real.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    the whole post
    http://fsrussia.ru/news/1019_aleksej...specprogrammy/

    "
    - In one form or another test skates we are every day. But we will check car after the European Championship , which will invite members of the expert council. Creating such expert council seems to me a smart move because it gathers the most influential and authoritative experts figure skating. At the same time there does not include personal trainers , which guarantees an objective and impartial decision-making."

    And as said we don't know what happen in the backround. Tarasova is doing everything in this game, and probably she also has many friends in Rus Fed.

    And you like or not, the japanese federation 's decision was unjust, Kozuka earned that spot, if you woudn't be Dai's fans you know it.

    And I recommend you check it what Plushy did in this year, and imagine that Daisuke did those incredible things.. Probably you also support Dai as me Plushy..

    and I'm curious you was outraged when the Rus Fed sent Kovtun to the World Champ. instead of Menshov? Many many double standard...

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