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Thread: Plushenko changes mind, demands Sochi place

  1. #76
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    double post

  2. #77
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    And I recommend you check it what Plushy did in this year, and imagine that Daisuke did those incredible things.
    Can you enlighten me here, please? What incredible things Plushy did this year???
    I'm really curious. I would like to imagine Daisuke doing some incredible things.

  3. #78
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    and I'm curious you was outraged when the Rus Fed sent Kovtun to the World Champ. instead of Menshov? Many many double standard...
    Yes, I was outraged that Menshov didn't get to go to Worlds last year, even if your word "outraged" is a bit too extreme. I strongly felt that Menshov deserved to go.
    So, no double standard there. I'm not blindly supporting 1 skater in any situation he's facing, "no matter if it's right or wrong". Can you say the same about yourself?
    Does your question - and your wrong assumption that I'd have wanted Kovtun for Worlds last year - mean that I'm supposed to "hold a grudge" over a 12 month period, be biased and neglect the fact that Kovtun has become the strongest male skater in Russia within 1 year?
    I'm trying to be objective:
    - 1 year ago, I was "Team Menshov" because Kovtun finished only 5th at RN and Menshov 3rd. They competed fairly and Menshov won.
    - Now I'm "Team Kovtun" because he's won 2 silver medals at GPs, made the GPF, and won the RN. The only direct comparison with Plushy, he won. He's planning a total of 5 quads, and he's pretty successful at them.
    Objectivity is awesome. You should try it one day

    I get it that you're a Plushy fan and want him to go, and that's perfectly fine. But please don't assume all those who say Kovtun deserves it are die-hard Kovtun fans. I think not many are.

  4. #79
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itoja View Post
    Can you enlighten me here, please? What incredible things Plushy did this year???
    I'm really curious. I would like to imagine Daisuke doing some incredible things.

    I'll probably repeat some well known things:
    -he has spinal surgery in January 31 :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5hQlrbKNdU ProDisc Lumbar Total Disc Replacement . Many people say he will be happy if he can walking..
    -he began general physical preparation in may..many people sayi in this forum, too, this is ridiculous he will be in a wheelchair, and that isn't imagine he will be able to jump. He had such severe pain after surgery. Just a hockey player and a famous ballet dancer returned to his "job" after similar surgery.
    http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/vi...lovodsk#p78793 EVgeni on traing..we could follow his every steps in preparation...
    - end of may he stepped to the ice, but he didn't jump

    -Plushenko's first jump after surgery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgEYv36xwNg

    - in june he landed his first triples in Pinzolo
    17 of june:
    "Some trials of single jumps.nothing broken then... perfect! Long warm up and maybe we saw an angel. some steps. And... well we almost die!
    Angel move I meant! Lol"

    "
    @EvgeniPlushenko had, according to me, a wonderful training session.Of course he couldn't jump but he made a small single Axel trial and it went ok, he said he felt ok after the landing. Later he made some step sequences and you all know that even if he stares in the middle of the rink he dominates it, when he moves he let everyone breathless."
    "The session was still mainly about jumps, after warming up, he did some double salchow jumps, some great ones, some a bit shaky ones. He actually fell two times on the ice when he tried loops and a double jump combination, which totally gave us heart attacks . But he seems feeling fine and not so frustrated at all, most of the times he smiled :-): . Later, he did nice double toes and loops. Then he tried double Luz and after he succeeded it, he had one knee down on the ice and making the pumping gesture to celebrate :ya_hoo_oo: . Oh boy he was happy :-) .
    The great surprise has yet to come: he began to train Axel jump. He did some single ones, then started double axels. Just when I talked to Sara that I thought he now managed all double jumps except flip (he did not train it), he launched for another Axal jump. We all think it would be another great double axels"

    -21 of june: he landed in triples:
    "Ice session. Jumps. Good feeling on all of them. All triples he is now practicing on Axels. @EvgeniPlushenko
    He IS doing triples. I've always been right about his supernatural power. The real man of Steel!
    Ice practice is over for this morning for @EvgeniPlushenko.He looks great and in good condition.He tried all the type jumps. "

    Plushy said everything makes him feel pain.

    -27 of july http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTGncuLYHGA his first 3A after surgery
    -in august he is in Tartu training camp http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/vi...odsk&start=860
    tv news http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l4um0tdMrQ

    -in august he landed in first quad

    -end of september Opera on ice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY4i5j5ud0o beautiful 3A

    -in 7-9 of november at Volvo Cup
    SP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWzdsZBytg
    LP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ni6gOLbrU

    and many poster attacked him here after this competition..

    - you know what happened later..Do you think he must give up his dream, because he spoiled a competiton? he suffered so much for it..

    I like I love this guy..I know him, he is not perfect, but he is a honest, strong person. I will support him until he will step to the ice..

    And the Russian federation knows he would be the biggest star in Sochi...The international media love him, love his story, the Russian people want -was a voting- him to be the flag bearers. So I'm sure the Rus Fed will have a hard decision. Daisuke got the spot because of his popularity in Japan..So I don't understand why do you wonder because the Rus Fed gave a chance for him..

    and look at his Facebook page and twitter account..I believe his fans give him power in this time..

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    You are right! Spinal surgery to quad triple is incredible.

  6. #81
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Yes, I was outraged that Menshov didn't get to go to Worlds last year, even if your word "outraged" is a bit too extreme. I strongly felt that Menshov deserved to go.
    So, no double standard there. I'm not blindly supporting 1 skater in any situation he's facing, "no matter if it's right or wrong". Can you say the same about yourself?
    Does your question - and your wrong assumption that I'd have wanted Kovtun for Worlds last year - mean that I'm supposed to "hold a grudge" over a 12 month period, be biased and neglect the fact that Kovtun has become the strongest male skater in Russia within 1 year?
    I'm trying to be objective:
    - 1 year ago, I was "Team Menshov" because Kovtun finished only 5th at RN and Menshov 3rd. They competed fairly and Menshov won.
    - Now I'm "Team Kovtun" because he's won 2 silver medals at GPs, made the GPF, and won the RN. The only direct comparison with Plushy, he won. He's planning a total of 5 quads, and he's pretty successful at them.
    Objectivity is awesome. You should try it one day

    I get it that you're a Plushy fan and want him to go, and that's perfectly fine. But please don't assume all those who say Kovtun deserves it are die-hard Kovtun fans. I think not many are.
    If I want to be honest I don't really want that Plushy goes to Sochi.. just I don't like if he doesn't get the objectivity from the posters, because he is Plushenko. As I said the Russian Federation never said that the Rus Champion will go to Sochi...the end of the story in this moment..You don't now how will skate Kovtun in ECH. Right? So I don't understand your commitment..And yes, the objectivity is awesome..I would like to see when you practice it.

  7. #82
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    ... so now you agree that Kovtun is the better skater with better chances of getting Russia more points.
    Until now, you said that it would be Plushenko.
    Now, when asked about his achievements compared to Kovtun's skating, you point out how amazing it is that he's even able to skate after his surgery.
    Don't get me wrong: I genuinely have the utmost respect for him giving it a try the best he could after all his physical problems. That was amazing.
    And that, after all this, he still managed to beat all but one Russian skaters at Nationals is very impressive. But at the end of the day, he got beaten on the ice by this one other Russian skater.

    You're right again when you say that Plushenko is a huge star and would make people want to be there live for the Men's and the Team event more if he competed. But would that actually bring in more money? Don't you think that even if it's Kovtun, the event would still be sold out?
    Previously, you said Plushy should go because he's the better skater. Now, you say he should go as a reward because he's had to fight so hard to even become the second best Russian skater.
    The Russian Federation will have to decide which of those 2 criteria is more important when sending someone to... a sporting event.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    If I want to be honest I don't really want that Plushy goes to Sochi
    Great. Then... what are you arguing about exactly?

    About my "commitment and objectivity": read through my objective explanations about my point of view again if you want. If you don't see it the same way, that's ok. But I genuinely don't think that I'm not objective in this. As I told you, I'm not even a huge Kovtun fan. I just believe the better one should get chosen.

  9. #84
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    ... so now you agree that Kovtun is the better skater with better chances of getting Russia more points.
    Until now, you said that it would be Plushenko.
    Now, when asked about his achievements compared to Kovtun's skating, you point out how amazing it is that he's even able to skate after his surgery.
    Don't get me wrong: I genuinely have the utmost respect for him giving it a try the best he could after all his physical problems. That was amazing.
    And that, after all this, he still managed to beat all but one Russian skaters at Nationals is very impressive. But at the end of the day, he got beaten on the ice by this one other Russian skater.

    You're right again when you say that Plushenko is a huge star and would make people want to be there live for the Men's and the Team event more if he competed. But would that actually bring in more money? Don't you think that even if it's Kovtun, the event would still be sold out?
    Previously, you said Plushy should go because he's the better skater. Now, you say he should go as a reward because he's had to fight so hard to even become the second best Russian skater.
    The Russian Federation will have to decide which of those 2 criteria is more important when sending someone to... a sporting event.
    You gave to my mouth some words what I never said.. Check it.. I think you love the debate..
    I believe we need to finish this controversy and need to wait..has not done nothing that would not have happened with other skaters and other federations. I would like to see when you fight for Mirai , Polina or Kozuka's spots.. because of the objectivity..

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I believe we need to finish this controversy and need to wait..

  11. #86
    Tripping on the Podium
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    The obvious reason why Ru Fed wants Plushenko for Olympics is the possible gold medal in team event. They believe his status alone can bring points. And they are probably right.

    But the team event itself is meant to compare the current common level of each country in all four disciplines.
    In fact, Russia has one weak discipline now - men. That is why they have one spot in it. Evgeni is not current competitor, he's more of a guest star in the show.
    And now they try to cover the hole in the wall with wallpaper. Looks nice, but can be torn any moment.

    All that fuss is mainly because it's their home Olympics and the Fed's officials will be dismissed in no time if they don't provide proper medalling for Mother Russia. In all sports, not only skating. That is the matter of the image. A extremely big money was spent on these Olympics, so the government has to prove it wasn't all in vain. If Russian sportsmen fail in Russian Olympics, politically it means "Putin spent our taxes on our own shame". All Kovtuns an Plushenkos and V\Ts are just pawns in that grand game. Fed has to play very smart.

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    Plushenko would need to demonstrate publicly and with judges as neutral as possible that he can get a tech score that rivals kovtuns! Kovtun tech score is likely to be much higher than plushenkos but i think kovtuns pcs wouldn't be as bad as plushenkos tech score. Kovtun might be better even in team because of his tech score potential. Plushenko pcs likely won't be good at Olympics because he's not that impressive anymore. In 2010 he was impressive as the most consistent and best jumper in skating.

  13. #88
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mielikki View Post
    The obvious reason why Ru Fed wants Plushenko for Olympics is the possible gold medal in team event. They believe his status alone can bring points. And they are probably right.
    I think it's a little more then that. Basically, each contender (Kovtun & Plush) have equally low chances of scoring well at Olympics. However, Plushenko just being there will generate certain amount of publicity and the like. OTOH, there is a whole Tarasova vs. Mishin undertone to this. In the old-old-old days, Tarasova was "in" and Mishin was rather an outsider (which, I believe, he never fully got over) - don't know how this plays now.

  14. #89
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
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    A test skate, closed to the public. How convenient.

    So how can Kovtun beat that? ISU judging panel versus SEKRET national judging panel. I think I can predict which one will mark more generously.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    That is Kovtun's skating under pressure. 17th place in the world.
    9th TES, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by sigrid View Post
    Just for the record, the Japanese Federation published their rules about how to choose the Olympic Team months ago. They have been transparent and Takahashi has earned his Oly spot. The Russian Fed, as usual, hasn't published any specific criteria.

    Plushenko and Takahashi's cases aren't similar at all IMO
    They were published in advance, yes. But they weren't very specific and gave JSF a lot of leeway to pick the skaters they wanted, regardless of inconvenient results.

    But of course the situations aren't similar in that Takahashi has actually competed regularly over the last few seasons and didn't just show up and expect everybody to roll out the red carpet for him.

  15. #90
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Plushenko has competed in 2010,2012, 2013 and 2014 Nationals and on two Euros. He is not Takahashi of course, but he didnt just came on RN 2014 and demanded the red carpet. (he had demanded it earlier :P)

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