Most popular boots/blades | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Most popular boots/blades

Babbette1

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Chan seems to have worn Edea Concerto rather than Fly recently (Hanyu in those?) http://cdn3.volusion.com/zarbv.ethpz/v/vspfiles/photos/categories/388.jpg?1384070403 .

Figure skating seems a bit out of step with modern boot technology, having people flying around with their poor little feet incased in pounds of leather while hockey, speed & various inline skating disciplines have long since moved on to using newer materials.

This may be because figure skating involves a great deal of angular momentum which the other sports you mentioned don't have. If the boots are not high enough on the leg (speed skates) then there's not enough support, and if they're too bulky (hockey skates) then it's hard to get the crossed leg position, and if they're too stiff (inline) then you run into issues of spiral fracturing the ankle and leg up on landing.
You'll note that roller, which has angular momentum issues as well, also sticks to figure skate style boots.
Just a theory.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Maybe alos it's sometimes more the skaters feet (or something else anatomical, their tretment of boots etc) rather than boot or brand itself. Heard Reynolds (must be others?) had boot problems this season, what brand was that in?
Skaters have boot problems all the time in this sport, some worse than others. Goebel's exit from this sport was hastened by some ill-fitting boots. Kwan spent a season in a bad-for-her brand of boot which caused her problems. I've had a pair that never broke in right (and I've been in the same brand for YEARS).
 

Tarpic2

Spectator
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
This may be because figure skating involves a great deal of angular momentum which the other sports you mentioned don't have. If the boots are not high enough on the leg (speed skates) then there's not enough support, and if they're too bulky (hockey skates) then it's hard to get the crossed leg position, and if they're too stiff (inline) then you run into issues of spiral fracturing the ankle and leg up on landing.
You'll note that roller, which has angular momentum issues as well, also sticks to figure skate style boots.
Just a theory.
Right, plainly factual rather than just a theory though perhaps?:) Was wondering if non leather/ unnatural etc boots that aren't rendered useless by those negatives are make-able, genuinely curious.
Edea seem to be made of non-traditional materials, comments along lines of them loosening too quickly/ being OK for Chan & other elite skaters (in roller too I note) were made. So one brand that seems a little less traditional has done fairly well, would think there's plenty of room for improvement.

I guess some changes in sports footwear are merely gimmicks, cost cutting techniques or just changes that can become detrimental to users.
Football boots are much lighter these days, apparently players suffer metatarsal injuries more frequently, basketball boots look quite different to me now than 15-20years ago, maybe that's just an external thing, maybe they're better to play in.

As a total layman leather figure skates seem fairly unchanged, can't help thinking that cultural preferences hold back figure boot development.
This thread interested me as people are posting suggestions of their own & that have been made to them, I've heard Gold seals recommended for all skaters as mentioned earlier in the thread & have thought I spied international skaters on MK Pro's.
If new equipment was more readily adopted would different manufacturers have boots out that better support (or help strengthen) ankles while not interfering with foot placement or control like hockey & aggressive boots or containing lbs of cow, elk, pig or whatever by now?
 

Babbette1

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
As a total layman leather figure skates seem fairly unchanged, can't help thinking that cultural preferences hold back figure boot development.
This thread interested me as people are posting suggestions of their own & that have been made to them, I've heard Gold seals recommended for all skaters as mentioned earlier in the thread & have thought I spied international skaters on MK Pro's.
If new equipment was more readily adopted would different manufacturers have boots out that better support (or help strengthen) ankles while not interfering with foot placement or control like hockey & aggressive boots or containing lbs of cow, elk, pig or whatever by now?

I think I see where you're headed here.

I know it seems that figure skating has not advanced a lot, but it really has. Boots used to go halfway up the calf, and then when doubles became the norm, they got shorter and stiffer. Then when heat molding was introduced that made boots heavier and stiffer, but made them easier to fit. Coplanar boots and blade were introduced what? about 10-15 years ago? They never took off, maybe because they didn't work as well as the traditionally styled boots or maybe because they didn't have a big enough advantage over regular boots to make them worth the effort. Then there have been a couple of new blade and toepicks developments. I won't include parabolic blades as 'new', they were invented in the late 1800s then fell out of favor. And don't forget, the straight pick wasn't invented until the late 40's by Gustave Lussi.

And behind the scenes there's been a lot of improvement in ice resurfacing. I doubt that you could do Quads on pond ice, so quality ice with a consistent surface helped with that. Skaters in old movies, skating on ponds seem slow because the ice wasn't consistent (and filled with twigs and leaves).

To get back to boots, it may turn out that there's what's called 'sufficiency' in figure skating. The leather boots are 'sufficiently' good enough, for skaters not to want to bother about trying some new technology, when they have something that works. Say a skater takes a risk and tries something new, then spends months only to find that the 'new technology' boot doesn't work out. That's an investment not only in boot cost, but ice time, maybe delayed skill development, testing and comps. In my business, that's called a risk assessment. I think a lot of people stay with a tried and true technology because it's good enough and reliable enough, and predictable enough. Although I personally think that new materials to replace leather is possible, and the microfiber boots are nice, there's still a lot to recommend in leather.

Why yes, I am an engineer.
 

Tarpic2

Spectator
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Then when heat molding was introduced that made boots heavier and stiffer, but made them easier to fit. Coplanar boots and blade were introduced what? about 10-15 years ago? They never took off, maybe because they didn't work as well as the traditionally styled boots or maybe because they didn't have a big enough advantage over regular boots to make them worth the effort.
To get back to boots, it may turn out that there's what's called 'sufficiency' in figure skating. The leather boots are 'sufficiently' good enough, for skaters not to want to bother about trying some new technology, when they have something that works. Say a skater takes a risk and tries something new, then spends months only to find that the 'new technology' boot doesn't work out. That's an investment not only in boot cost, but ice time, maybe delayed skill development, testing and comps. In my business, that's called a risk assessment. I think a lot of people stay with a tried and true technology because it's good enough and reliable enough, and predictable enough. Although I personally think that new materials to replace leather is possible, and the microfibre boots are nice, there's still a lot to recommend in leather.
It's not a huge market I know & something as sudden & different seeming within the figureskating as clap blades in speed skating couldn't appear & become the norm.
I've heard people in hockey skates say they've found new carbon fibre models 'too responsive', so damned if you do & damned if you don't for makers sometimes.
Never seen coplanars, hinged boots were those Jackson (Robocop) things right? Maybe if they'd both been taken up & improved upon for a decade+ current boots could be further ahead.

I'm familiar with heatmouldable boots & have been shown a top of the range pair from 30 years ago which seemed like wood carvings with zero anatomical sympathy towards a human foot in comparison, but still the rate of progress seems a bit relaxed. Maybe if/ when most brands have a top range microfibre boot with plastic moulded soles on the market things will have to move on a bit quicker?
Maybe not enough skaters experience boot problems (or are so conditioned to having messed up feet & joints that only extremely serious problems draw much attention) that change seems worthwhile.

Sure a non elite coach has no incentive to suggest a kids parent buy some crazy new boots they've never taught anyone to pass a test/ land an axel in before, sticking to the 'get Riedels/ Gams, add Gold seals' approach seems logical.
Hearing that Kwan, Goebel, Reynolds + whoever else have had such problems from boots sounds like madness though. Like (not literally..) a tennis player soldiering on with their trusty (wooden;)) racket having been half crippled by it.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Right, plainly factual rather than just a theory though perhaps?:) Was wondering if non leather/ unnatural etc boots that aren't rendered useless by those negatives are make-able, genuinely curious.
Edea seem to be made of non-traditional materials, comments along lines of them loosening too quickly/ being OK for Chan & other elite skaters (in roller too I note) were made. So one brand that seems a little less traditional has done fairly well, would think there's plenty of room for improvement.

I guess some changes in sports footwear are merely gimmicks, cost cutting techniques or just changes that can become detrimental to users.
Football boots are much lighter these days, apparently players suffer metatarsal injuries more frequently, basketball boots look quite different to me now than 15-20years ago, maybe that's just an external thing, maybe they're better to play in.

As a total layman leather figure skates seem fairly unchanged, can't help thinking that cultural preferences hold back figure boot development.
This thread interested me as people are posting suggestions of their own & that have been made to them, I've heard Gold seals recommended for all skaters as mentioned earlier in the thread & have thought I spied international skaters on MK Pro's.
If new equipment was more readily adopted would different manufacturers have boots out that better support (or help strengthen) ankles while not interfering with foot placement or control like hockey & aggressive boots or containing lbs of cow, elk, pig or whatever by now?

That's actually not true. I had lovely white figure skating boots that I wore when I was 13/14 years old (my feet remained the same size since then). When I started skating as an adult in my thirties, I thought they would be usable (that's why I kept them all those years and skated on them perhaps once or twice a year - low level of recreational skating - just stroking around the rink.) I was in shock when on my first lesson my coach stared at my boots, asked me to skate to the barrier and lift my leg, then he started touching it and then he sent me to change to the rental blue rubbery skates! He stated that the rental skates are bad, but mine are actually even worse and that he had never seen anything like that. For my next lesson I bought good beginner level boots and realized that my skating actually improved a lot by changing the boots. My old one were slightly higher and only one layer of leather. They were soft, they were easily bendable at the ankle (that was not because they were broken down. That was done like that by design.) So somewhere within the last 20-30 years someone realized that the boots need to be tougher and can be slightly lower. So I wouldn't say that the boots are not developing.
 

Tarpic2

Spectator
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
That's actually not true. I had lovely white figure skating boots that I wore when I was 13/14 years old (my feet remained the same size since then). When I started skating as an adult in my thirties, I thought they would be usable (that's why I kept them all those years and skated on them perhaps once or twice a year - low level of recreational skating - just stroking around the rink.) I was in shock when on my first lesson my coach stared at my boots, asked me to skate to the barrier and lift my leg, then he started touching it and then he sent me to change to the rental blue rubbery skates! He stated that the rental skates are bad, but mine are actually even worse and that he had never seen anything like that. For my next lesson I bought good beginner level boots and realized that my skating actually improved a lot by changing the boots. My old one were slightly higher and only one layer of leather. They were soft, they were easily bendable at the ankle (that was not because they were broken down. That was done like that by design.) So somewhere within the last 20-30 years someone realized that the boots need to be tougher and can be slightly lower. So I wouldn't say that the boots are not developing.
Hi yes - haha, blue rentals were a step up in the world? Your old boots must have been in a right state - out of interest have you had any difficulties with modern boots since (whether your 'fault' or that of the boot)?

Posted lazily but did say 'fairly unchanged' rather than 'figure skates are unchanged...' etc, wasn't making an absolute statement.
I mentioned heatmoulding & a top of the range pair from 30 years ago, which were a model worn by T&D apparently, rock hard, tough boots were available in '84-'94! (& steps taken since to reduce the break in/ need to have a cobbler on call)

Sure boots are developing, I posted re someone's comment on Edeas, just seems a bit slow & conservative to me.
Taking into account 'sufficiency' as someone pointed out + I'd guess manufacturers probably not being very inclined to say anything that could sound like needing to re-think their product beyond small advances (lighter heels, breathable tongue, flex notch whatever - mainly still a lump of leather on peoples feet) to better avoid the negative outcomes many skaters experience I can understand why boots could mostly remain as they are & will shut up about it, have bored myself typing this, god help other members!:slink:
 

loopy

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Hi yes - haha, blue rentals were a step up in the world? Your old boots must have been in a right state - out of interest have you had any difficulties with modern boots since (whether your 'fault' or that of the boot)?

Posted lazily but did say 'fairly unchanged' rather than 'figure skates are unchanged...' etc, wasn't making an absolute statement.
I mentioned heatmoulding & a top of the range pair from 30 years ago, which were a model worn by T&D apparently, rock hard, tough boots were available in '84-'94! (& steps taken since to reduce the break in/ need to have a cobbler on call)

Sure boots are developing, I posted re someone's comment on Edeas, just seems a bit slow & conservative to me.
Taking into account 'sufficiency' as someone pointed out + I'd guess manufacturers probably not being very inclined to say anything that could sound like needing to re-think their product beyond small advances (lighter heels, breathable tongue, flex notch whatever - mainly still a lump of leather on peoples feet) to better avoid the negative outcomes many skaters experience I can understand why boots could mostly remain as they are & will shut up about it, have bored myself typing this, god help other members!:slink:

But most boots aren't made of leather anymore. The sole may be, but the skate itself tends not to be leather. Sure there are exceptions, but over the past 5 pairs of skates my daughrer has had, the every time we get her skates, the old model no longer exists. They changes might not be noticeable but heels went from one material to cork, one pair had much lower backs for added movement. The Aria is gorgeous and the first I've seen lined with soft leather (kangaroo). It is beautiful.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Hi yes - haha, blue rentals were a step up in the world? Your old boots must have been in a right state - out of interest have you had any difficulties with modern boots since (whether your 'fault' or that of the boot)?

Depends what you consider 'problems with boots'. Like anyone else, I had problem with finding which brand matches to the shape of my foot. I tried Edea and they did not go with me and I grew a huge bunions on my joint just under my little toe. With mu current Klingbeils I don't have any problems.

But the problem I had with the original old boots was that there was no support for ankle. So it was like skating in trainers. My ankles would keep breaking in and my soles were not flat horizontal - it was like if I was skating on two inside edges. I really have no idea how they could skate on that in the past, whether they had to develop more strength in their ankles or whether they bandaged the ankles under the boots to give them more stability and support.

It is like with skiing. When I was a child, we used to have a very soft skiing boots, and then suddenly this current modern plastic (hard and much higher) boots started being used. I am not sure why the manufactures in the past thought it is a good idea to skate or ski in soft boots, but luckily someone later realised that it is actually not such a great idea.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Posted lazily but did say 'fairly unchanged' rather than 'figure skates are unchanged...' etc, wasn't making an absolute statement.
I mentioned heatmoulding & a top of the range pair from 30 years ago, which were a model worn by T&D apparently, rock hard, tough boots were available in '84-'94! (& steps taken since to reduce the break in/ need to have a cobbler on call)

I suppose the boots that were available for someone like T&D would be completely different than boots you would buy for your 12-14 year old recreational skater though. I am not talking about what was available at the top of brand, but what was generally sold as reasonable beginners boots. My parents definitely did not go for the cheapest; they wanted the boots to last for a while (and they did last! :laugh: )
 

pooh-beanie

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Edeas are getting v v v popular with the younger skaters!
As far as I know, Jackson is still leading, with Edea (Ice Fly) following, and Riedells and Harlicks...
As for blades, Paramounts are extremely noisy but if you need the lightness then go for it
the new revolutions are semi-hollow... never used, no comment
gold seals- my spins coach ADORES (bobbe shire)
 

skaterartist007

Spectator
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
It seems that the Edea's are popular, but is it really because they work or because they are hyped up? Every skater I've talked to has said that Edea's are good until they break because they really break. They can't continue to skate in them at all until they get a new pair..unlike the traditional leather skate that still holds you up until you manage to get your new boots. They also complain about the fit. If you don't get them fitted right then they cause a lot of problems. Getting fitted right is good if you live near someone who knows how to do it, but most skaters don't. I've also known a lot of skaters that have gone back to the leather boot after wearing Edea.The most popular brands that skaters seem to stick with in the U.S are Jackson, Riedell and Risport.

If you check out most of the high level skaters, especially the Olympic skaters, most of them either wear Jackson or Risport (very popular among the russian skaters). Most of the blades were also either Wilson, MK or the Ultima Matrix.
 

alexeifan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
I've heard they are better for jumping because they are lighter. I've never tried them so I'm not sure, but I'd like to try them if true.
 

CdnSk8Fan

Rinkside
Joined
May 21, 2018
The new line of Riedell's are much lighter and supposedly fairly comparable (or getting there) to the lightness of the Edea.
 

Casey

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Edeas are pretty popular since we formerly had an Olympic competitor at our rink who wears them.

For blades, Paramount seems to be the blade of choice. I think they're way too noisy on the ice. Some judges will say they can pick out a skater on Paramounts just by the sound they make on the ice.

I have Paramounts, and yes they are noisy. I believe this is due to them being the 440 stainless steel version. They also make a 420 stainless steel and carbon steel models though, and I would imagine that at least the latter should sound more like a traditional blade. I'm not completely sure though, because another fundamental difference between them and traditional blades is the aluminum body - steel will flex a bit and spring back to it's original position unless bent hard enough to warp, but aluminum is very rigid and will not bend unless it is in a permanent sort of way (you would not want that!). That subtle difference in flexibility might also be the cause of more noise on the Paramounts.

I got my Paramounts back when the company was new and nobody else had any yet. At that time they only had one profile and didn't advertise that it was a mimic of Pattern 99's. I got them because I got a great deal offer on them after my previous skates with Gold Seals were stolen. I wasn't interested in them, but the price was right and I decided to give them a fair shot since I had speculated that they would be awful. I don't think they're awful, but neither do I plan on sticking with them.

The stainless steel is nice in that it stays sharp FOREVER, and you don't have to worry about possibility of rust, but I didn't think that periodic sharpenings were ever a big deal. What's really strange is that, perhaps because of the material, or again perhaps because of the lack of flex, they feel way sharper than the same sharpening on traditional blades. I used to like 3/8" or 5/16" ROH sharpenings on my Gold Seals (and before that Gold Stars) to get plenty of bite, but on the Paramounts I have only a standard 7/16" and it still feels too sharp even though it has been years since my last sharpening! I cannot do one-foot stops anymore - not for lack of skill but because when I do the blade skips and jumps across the ice unpleasantly rather than allowing a smooth stop. I suspect the problem would go away if I reduced the ROH to 1/2" or bigger. I also find the appearance of them frankly ugly. Not as bad as Matrix blades or the new Revolution blades, but ugly nonetheless. I really prefer the appearance of traditional blades - chromed single-piece steel - but especially gold plated ones. :eek::

If I had to get new Paramounts, I would try carbon steel versions with a Gold Seal profile to see what I thought. However at this point I'm eager to go back to Gold Seals - I know it's a blade that works wonderfully for me (I definitely liked moving to it from Gold Stars), I don't mind the extra weight (actually I think it's beneficial for strength development), and I prefer the appearance.

Paramount has this nice image comparing 3 common profiles (which they offer on their blades in any of the materials listed above):

http://paramountskates.com/Curves1.jpg
 

Casey

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
I've heard they are better for jumping because they are lighter. I've never tried them so I'm not sure, but I'd like to try them if true.

Boots and blades weigh how much compared to your body weight? Even traditional all-leather boots with solid steel blades? How much of a difference can you get with the lightest boots and blade options? We're certainly not talking about much, and there's a lot of compromises I'd rather not make in order to shave that weight off. Personally, I think that weight of the boots is an overrated subject. If you're used to jumping in heavier boots and move to lighter ones, then sure, you may see an initial improvement, but that improvement may disappear as soon as you are acclimated to practicing in the lighter boots. Sometimes I'm tempted to get used to skating with 5lb ankle weights so that when I take them off I can realize a nice improvement - they weigh much more than a difference in boots would!
 

Casey

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
I would say that at this point, the most common boots at my rink are Jacksons. You also see people in Ridells, Risport, Edeas, and Graf(??).

I had Graf Edmonton Specials in the past. The skate fitter who was also an ice dancer recommended them and it's what he used them. They punished my feet and made me wish I didn't have ankles or heels. They also started falling apart catastrophically within a year. Maybe okay for ice dance but I wouldn't advise them for freestyle use. I have Klingbeil now and they are a million times better.
 

Casey

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
To get back to boots, it may turn out that there's what's called 'sufficiency' in figure skating. The leather boots are 'sufficiently' good enough, for skaters not to want to bother about trying some new technology, when they have something that works. Say a skater takes a risk and tries something new, then spends months only to find that the 'new technology' boot doesn't work out. That's an investment not only in boot cost, but ice time, maybe delayed skill development, testing and comps. In my business, that's called a risk assessment. I think a lot of people stay with a tried and true technology because it's good enough and reliable enough, and predictable enough. Although I personally think that new materials to replace leather is possible, and the microfiber boots are nice, there's still a lot to recommend in leather.

Excellently said!

Also, there were the hinge boots which fixed some things and hurt others. Another technology that never really took off...

Let's not forget that those boots looked just hideous. And this is a sport where appearance and gracefulness matters as much as the athleticism, at least to most of us.
 

Casey

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
That's actually not true. I had lovely white figure skating boots that I wore when I was 13/14 years old (my feet remained the same size since then). When I started skating as an adult in my thirties, I thought they would be usable (that's why I kept them all those years and skated on them perhaps once or twice a year - low level of recreational skating - just stroking around the rink.) I was in shock when on my first lesson my coach stared at my boots, asked me to skate to the barrier and lift my leg, then he started touching it and then he sent me to change to the rental blue rubbery skates! He stated that the rental skates are bad, but mine are actually even worse and that he had never seen anything like that. For my next lesson I bought good beginner level boots and realized that my skating actually improved a lot by changing the boots. My old one were slightly higher and only one layer of leather. They were soft, they were easily bendable at the ankle (that was not because they were broken down. That was done like that by design.) So somewhere within the last 20-30 years someone realized that the boots need to be tougher and can be slightly lower. So I wouldn't say that the boots are not developing.

Haha, I can relate! My first pair of skates were some ancient ones like that, which I purchased on eBay for a low price. I could bend and twist my ankle any which way I wanted. They were cheap department store brand skates with the blades riveted into the plastic soles, but at least at the rink I went to, they were better than the dull rentals, if only because I could have a sharp blade. I skated in those until they started falling apart (only a couple months, the lace hooks started ripping out), then moved on to Graf for about a year before switching to Klingbeil.
 
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