Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 31 to 42 of 42

Thread: Canada's Olympic Team

  1. #31
    ISU, stop promoting 2-foot skating!
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Axis of Evil
    Posts
    2,516
    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    If that was the one defining factor , arguably , you could wind up with a team of much less skill and refinement winning. ( I'm referring to some hypothetical couple .) An original idea is not enough , on it's own.
    IJS is not 6.0. Judges shouldn't be handing out ordinals and placing skaters. They should be rewarding the elements performed and the criteria which make up the PCS. The system then calculates it and skaters are placed according to the total point values.

    If a hypothetical skater X performs only single jumps but has the most numerous, difficult and well executed transitions in their program, then they should get the highest TR mark because jumps aren't part of the TR criteria. And if they then end up winning (imagine the outrage! ), then tough. Nothing stopping the other skaters from improving their programs in that regard.

    This is what really ticks me off about the judging. The judges are still stuck in the 6.0 mindset.

    Having said all that, you are right saying that:

    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    I was not in the rink , but I've heard no objection to the placement of P/I's elements, and even on TV, you can tell that their program uses the available ice surface fully.Their choreography, too , incorporates some unique lifts .. and it weaves the elements together seamlessly ( I would say better than G/P's program ). In a way , I'm glad that originality is not more highly rewarded. It should definitely be rewarded, but equally with the other components of choreography...Otherwise, we'd wind up with everybody just trying to be more different than the next couple , and I shudder to think what grotesque paths that could lead us down.
    There is indeed much more to choreography than originality/concept and I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions without having a closer look at both programs.

    For the record, I don't necessarily think that Gilles/Poirer were robbed of 3rd place. I haven't judged both of the teams' programs so I can't say that they were or weren't. I just really adore G/P's FD and feel sad that this time it wasn't enough.

  2. #32
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,819
    I was there on Saturday and in my opinion, G/P should have been 3rd in the FD but that's just my take. Even though G/P ended up 4th, until the Olympic team was announced, they were still hoping to be named, even though they knew it was a long shot, knowing who Islam's mother is, it would seem unconceivable that Skate Canada would pick the 4th place team for the 3rd Olympic spot.

  3. #33
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,797
    I don't think this is a road we should go down... does being Islam's son carry more weight than being the anointed " next one" of Stong? ( Disregarding the comparative abilities of their partners... not entirely a case of apples to oranges ..though next year could be a different story.)

    This could get very silly.

    Why would they go to the 4th place team when the two couples ( at different competitions ) have been scored in the same ballpark this year ? Not to mention that the very high scores handed out to G/P previously have not been upheld by international judges ...and at this competition, it was a clear win by P/I .

    Last year P/I had to take their lumps like anyone else when their mistake knocked them right off the int'l team. They were only awarded a host spot at Skate Canada after coming out early , well prepared and scoring well. Both teams have struggled through seasons due to injury, both have had mistakes at a bad time.. For the first time in at least 3 yrs , we've seen rational judging in ice dance at Canadians , where if there's a national boost in the marks , it's applied evenly right down the ranks , and doesn't lead to unreasonable expectations , or shortchange any of the competitors.... I hope it stays that way , even if my particular aesthetic favourites don't wind up on the podium on a given day.

  4. #34
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    I don't think this is a road we should go down... does being Islam's son carry more weight than being the anointed " next one" of Stong?

    This could get very silly. Why would they go to the 4th place team when the two have been scored in the same ballpark this year ? Not to mention that the very high scores handed out to G/P previously have not been upheld by international judges ...and it was a clear win.
    I agree wholeheartedly with you colleen. I've been waiting for P/I to skate "lights out" in competition and they did. I was there and they were floating and smooth and fast. Her back and arms are to die for, very similar to Tessa. They skate pure and have a wonderful connection as well as lovely lines and very nice edges. They were my highlight and well as V/M on Saturday. I'm thrilled for them.

  5. #35
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    798
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I was there on Saturday and in my opinion, G/P should have been 3rd in the FD but that's just my take. Even though G/P ended up 4th, until the Olympic team was announced, they were still hoping to be named, even though they knew it was a long shot, knowing who Islam's mother is, it would seem unconceivable that Skate Canada would pick the 4th place team for the 3rd Olympic spot.
    Is Mitchell Islam's mother a judge? Are you saying that has given her son an edge with the other Canadian judges on the panel? I hope that's not the case, and I suppose it could become a conflict of interest to have parents who are judges. But in the past there hasn't seemed to be any preferential treatment towards P&I since they have ranked behind G&P in the past. Not sure about this year.

  6. #36
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    798
    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Well.. "the eye of the beholder ", etc.

    That was the first time G/P have been scored appropriately in Canadian competition , instead of being grossly over scored.

    I appreciate the originality of the concept of their program, some of their unique moves , and they certainly displayed more in the way of transitions than they have in the past , but still do not have the togetherness of P/I, the ease of movement or flow.. If G/P keep on with the improvement as a couple they have displayed this year , it will again be close between the two teams next year.

    No one can argue that P/I have been unduly favoured by the judging in the past , and that's still the case. The skaters know what the other teams are capable of and I'm sure , the content of their opponents' programs. If you saw CTV's coverage , there was a lengthy shot of G/P and probably Carol Lane looking not just nervous, but very downcast backstage, while P/I were still receiving their ovation... well before the marks had been given. They knew exactly what they were up against , and that the outcome could reasonably not go in their favour.

    I think this was one of the best adjudicated Canadians we've seen in some years.

    ETA; Though this is not a contoversial decision , I hope G/P follow W/P's example from the last quadrennial , and go on to improve and shine at their next competition ( possibly 4cc ? ).
    Yes, G&P knew it was going to be a close competition, as did P&I. There's nothing unusual about their reactions backstage - they were nervous waiting for the outcome, just like when they showed Elijah Baldé looking crestfallen earlier in the night when he just missed out on the men's podium.

    If G&P were overscored at previous Nationals as some of you claim, that's not their fault, and I'm not sure I agree they were that overscored. There have been a few international competitions where G&P have received high scores (in fact I think their ISU bio sheet shows their best score to date was at 2013 Four Continents, which is NOT a Canadian Nationals). What was odd about this Nationals is that Piper is a stronger skater than she was a few years ago and yet G&P received a lower FD score than they did their first year together. In the past they have gotten 100+ in the FD, and this year it was only 99. Normally they would have beaten P&I.

  7. #37
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    What was odd about this Nationals is that Piper is a stronger skater than she was a few years ago and yet G&P received a lower FD score than they did their first year together. In the past they have gotten 100+ in the FD, and this year it was only 99. Normally they would have beaten P&I.
    Since you would assume that as their skills improved, their marks improved, and this year's marks were lower than the previous two, then the deduction remaining is that they were highly over marked the other two years.

  8. #38
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    798
    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    Since you would assume that as their skills improved, their marks improved, and this year's marks were lower than the previous two, then the deduction remaining is that they were highly over marked the other two years.
    Or they were undermarked this year.

    The interesting question still remains why the difference in marks from the previous years (although it's only a few points, so it's not big).

    Having said that, I agree that G&P should take it to the next level and work to improve further so that they can continue their close rivalry with P&I. Perhaps they will start pushing each other to improve the way V&M and D&W do. It's also possible that at some point down the road G&P may want to consider training in Detroit with the top dance teams since that appears to be the way ice dancers move up the standings and improve higher.

  9. #39
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,819
    The events at the 2014 Nationals felt somewhat bittersweet and nostalgic. I recall, 4 years ago, at the London Nationals in 2010, I consoled a very disappointed Craig Buntin after him and his partner narrowly missed the Olympic team. His partner then, is of course, Meghan Duhamel, the current World Bronze medalist and one of the favorite for the 2014 Olympics with her new partner, Eric Radford.

    This isn't the only irony during this bittersweet weekend. 4 years ago, Vanessa Crone and Paul Poirier fell during their Free Dance but were correctly marked above then the 3rd rank team - Weaver / Poje. Because there were only 2 spots available, it meant that Weaver/Poje would not be going to the Olympics after all the efforts that Kaetlyn Weaver did to obtain Canadian citizenship. Not only it was a heartbreaking moments for them, some of the judges at the event were pretty sad as well after the event. Ironically, 4 years later, Weaver/Poje has become one of the hottest dance teams in the world while it is Paul Poirier's partner who had to rush to obtain Canadian citizenship only to narrowly miss the Olympic team. What impressed me 4 years ago was how calm Kaetlyn Weaver accepted such profound disappointment. Seeing the "American civil war" going on right now, it made me appreciate the way Weaver/Poje grew from that experience. Had this been in the U.S., there would be undoubtedly claims of bias or fixed judging due to Vanessa Crone's fall in the FD yet they still moved ahead. I recall seeing how Kaetlyn walked back to the hotel with Andrew, very calmly and acted like it was just another day. This kind of attitude and professionalism really should serve as a good example to some other skaters who obviously feel entitled.

    Then there is of course Kevin Reynolds. Kevin completed a technically demanding Free Skate but only to be marked down in the second mark and narrowly missed the Olympic team. To say he was disappointed was a major understatement. To add insult to injury, this took place during a controversial time when Skate Canada embarked on a questionable campaign to make figure skating more attractive to "tough guys" and Vaughn Chipeur seemed to fit that image better. 4 years later, Vaughn Chipeur retired after a few unsuccessful seasons and Kevin Reynolds became contender in the 2014 Olympics after becoming the 2013 Four Continents Champion over the best skaters from Japan, China and USA.

    Life is full of surprises and irony. 4 years ago and now, the contrast can't be any more obvious.

  10. #40
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    798
    I agree with you about Weaver & Poje and Meghan Duhamel. They very narrowly missed out last time and I certainly think they earned their spots this time and am glad that they are going. I felt sad for Meghan & Craig when they narrowly missed out in 2010 (although at least Craig could console himself with having been an Olympian once at the 2006 Olympics with Valerie Marcoux).

    The FD competition at 2010 Nationals was tough to judge like this year. Vanessa did have that fall in the FD, and she and Paul were prepared for the fact that they might miss out on the Olympic team. W&P then ended up having a unison problem in their spins and so weren't perfect either, but it would have been perfectly understandable if they had finished ahead of C&P. I think overall C&P's FD set to the story of Orpheus & Euridice was more lyrical, and they were a slightly stronger team overall at the time than W&P in terms of results and so that may be why they got the edge.

    G&P are disappointed to be narrowly missing out this year, but they seem to be taking it well and have both Tweeted that they are aiming for 2018 and ready to take on 4CC's next week.

  11. #41
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    The events at the 2014 Nationals felt somewhat bittersweet and nostalgic. I recall, 4 years ago, at the London Nationals in 2010, I consoled a very disappointed Craig Buntin after him and his partner narrowly missed the Olympic team. His partner then, is of course, Meghan Duhamel, the current World Bronze medalist and one of the favorite for the 2014 Olympics with her new partner, Eric Radford.

    This isn't the only irony during this bittersweet weekend. 4 years ago, Vanessa Crone and Paul Poirier fell during their Free Dance but were correctly marked above then the 3rd rank team - Weaver / Poje. Because there were only 2 spots available, it meant that Weaver/Poje would not be going to the Olympics after all the efforts that Kaetlyn Weaver did to obtain Canadian citizenship. Not only it was a heartbreaking moments for them, some of the judges at the event were pretty sad as well after the event. Ironically, 4 years later, Weaver/Poje has become one of the hottest dance teams in the world while it is Paul Poirier's partner who had to rush to obtain Canadian citizenship only to narrowly miss the Olympic team. What impressed me 4 years ago was how calm Kaetlyn Weaver accepted such profound disappointment. Seeing the "American civil war" going on right now, it made me appreciate the way Weaver/Poje grew from that experience. Had this been in the U.S., there would be undoubtedly claims of bias or fixed judging due to Vanessa Crone's fall in the FD yet they still moved ahead. I recall seeing how Kaetlyn walked back to the hotel with Andrew, very calmly and acted like it was just another day. This kind of attitude and professionalism really should serve as a good example to some other skaters who obviously feel entitled.

    Then there is of course Kevin Reynolds. Kevin completed a technically demanding Free Skate but only to be marked down in the second mark and narrowly missed the Olympic team. To say he was disappointed was a major understatement. To add insult to injury, this took place during a controversial time when Skate Canada embarked on a questionable campaign to make figure skating more attractive to "tough guys" and Vaughn Chipeur seemed to fit that image better. 4 years later, Vaughn Chipeur retired after a few unsuccessful seasons and Kevin Reynolds became contender in the 2014 Olympics after becoming the 2013 Four Continents Champion over the best skaters from Japan, China and USA.

    Life is full of surprises and irony. 4 years ago and now, the contrast can't be any more obvious.
    Interesting analogy and well said. It all comes full circle. I really felt for W/P and D/B in 2010, it was close both times, so it's gratifying to see both of them rise up and make it this time. Meagan almost retired, I'm sure now she's happy she didn't and instead paired with Eric. It's paid off. Weaver/Poje are definitely contenders now. I think Gilles/Poirier have potential so it's good they're sticking around. Kevin has improved so much, and he definitely could be a force. It's a bundle of emotions going into the Olympics. Not making the world team is disappointing but ther'es still the next year, the Olympics is much more important especially if it could be your last chance. I feel bad for Lacoste, though not entirely surprised, I think she was in tough up against Gabrielle Daleman and the other youngsters.

    I like that we have a young team, many could still be around for 2018. Canada has a bright future in skating. I"m happy with the team that was chosen.

  12. #42
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    Have a question: Has Skate Canada announced their team for Worlds as well? or not yet?
    I want to know who gets selected, and also who alternates are. More precisely, do Piper/Paul and/or Elladj have any chance to come to Japan, instead, in case Tessa/Scott and/or Patrick decide not to go.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •