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Thread: Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

  1. #706
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    In my opinion they really shouldn't be getting points at all for a fall. Apparently Dick Button agrees...

    When you have a skater falling 3 times placing above someone who appears fine but cheated the jump landings slightly...you've got a problem. Of course, UR should be taken into account too but honestly it should not be worse than falling down.

  2. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    In my opinion they really shouldn't be getting points at all. Apparently Dick Button agrees...
    The landing is only one aspect of the jump. You can make mistakes on the take-off (wrong edge, etc), in the air (leaning, short of rotation), and on the landing (two-foot, fall). Yes, a fall is the most obvious error but why should that error negate all the other positive aspects of the jump? Even if Button agrees, the ISU as an organization doesn't and I'm sure Chan's coach doesn't.

  3. #708
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    In basketball - do you get 1 or 1.5 points for a jump shot that "almost" went in? Of course not. It's either good (2) or no good (0). I just cannot understand why a failed jump should be rewarded the way it is now. *shrug*

  4. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    In basketball - do you get 1 or 1.5 points for a jump shot that "almost" went in? Of course not. It's either good (2) or no good (0). I just cannot understand why a failed jump should be rewarded the way it is now. *shrug*
    Jumps aren't ask black and white as a basketball goal. You can toss the ball in with one hand, or two hands, but they score the same. Should all jumps be scored the same regardless of how the skater leaves the ice? Are you suggesting a jump should be awarded either full credit or no credit, without regard to quality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    No coach encourages their skater to rotate jumps that they cannot land, or encourages skaters to land on two feet. It isn't a loophole at all; the skater still gets the fall penalty plus -GOE.
    I understand what you mean. Things are pretty different around here. By doing that kind of things, they send their skater to higher level than reality. Kind of building a pretty profile for the coach. With the right connections, +GOE happens from time to time.

  6. #711
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    Neither one is at their peak! Ashley doesn't have the difficulty and Mirai is out of shape and condition. Not to mention she never could really fully rotate her jumps. It's time for some new blood. It's not the same sport is was in 2010.

    Ashley was at her peak in 2010. Had she landed that lutz at 2010 Nationals she would have probably gone on to the Olympics and medaled. If anything I think her TES and PC have weakened compared to 2009-2012. She's just not the same skater or competitor. And she still can't stop two footing!!

    Mirai lost her edge and drive 3 seasons ago. This year's Nationals was too little too late.

    Skater's just don't have the longevity that they did during the 6.0 era. I think it has a lot to do with injuries due to the jumps.

    Growth spurts ruined Caroline Zhang. Injuries and nerves destroyed Alissa. And Rachael was consistent but stiff and slow.

    I think Mirai needs to move on. It's sad but that's just the way it is. BTW I respect and adore all the skaters I mentioned.

    PS. I'm glad Frank revamped Gracie's artistry but he ruined her huge jumps. Sometimes choreographers and coaches can really spoil a powerful skater.

  7. #712
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    You say that 'growth spurts ruined Caroline Zhang'. You seem to forget that Mirai had to deal with not one (2009) but two (post 2011) growth spurts. She changed physically quite a bit from 2011 4CCs to when she arrived at Nationals 2012. She used to be rather slender like Yuna and Mao. Now she has a much more athletic build, especially in the thighs/legs. That can't have helped her with her jump issues, adjusting to a new body yet again after 2010/2011.

  8. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyaHardlyEver View Post
    Neither one is at their peak! Ashley doesn't have the difficulty and Mirai is out of shape and condition. Not to mention she never could really fully rotate her jumps. It's time for some new blood. It's not the same sport is was in 2010.

    Ashley was at her peak in 2010. Had she landed that lutz at 2010 Nationals she would have probably gone on to the Olympics and medaled. If anything I think her TES and PC have weakened compared to 2009-2012. She's just not the same skater or competitor. And she still can't stop two footing!!

    Mirai lost her edge and drive 3 seasons ago. This year's Nationals was too little too late.

    Skater's just don't have the longevity that they did during the 6.0 era. I think it has a lot to do with injuries due to the jumps.

    Growth spurts ruined Caroline Zhang. Injuries and nerves destroyed Alissa. And Rachael was consistent but stiff and slow.

    I think Mirai needs to move on. It's sad but that's just the way it is. BTW I respect and adore all the skaters I mentioned.

    PS. I'm glad Frank revamped Gracie's artistry but he ruined her huge jumps. Sometimes choreographers and coaches can really spoil a powerful skater.
    Just regarding the jumps: huge jumps are incredible when they are landed properly, but if the skater could not complete them without falling a significant portion of the time, then what's the point? If they have falls on them quite often then their technique could not be good, could it? Gracie's first triple Lutz at Nationals was incredible in terms of height, but it also seemed to be out of control. Fortunately she managed to get through that and still land the jump and pull off the combination. I really enjoyed her Nationals performance and if she keeps up that type of skating or even a bit better, she will be very hard to beat.

  9. #714
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    I agree that neither Nagasu nor Wagner are at their peak now - but Wagner CERTAINLY did not peak in 2010. Her peak was closer to 2012 - the end of the 11-12 season and beginning of the 12-13 one. Wagner was never really quite the same after that hip pointer injury honestly. Funny enough, I think that happened in Sochi...the very ice she'll be skating on again in a couple weeks!

  10. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I agree that neither Nagasu nor Wagner are at their peak now - but Wagner CERTAINLY did not peak in 2010. Her peak was closer to 2012 - the end of the 11-12 season and beginning of the 12-13 one. Wagner was never really quite the same after that hip pointer injury honestly. Funny enough, I think that happened in Sochi...the very ice she'll be skating on again in a couple weeks!
    She may have peaked in terms of results but I feel she was a better skater in 2009-2010. She seemed to have so much more spunk and energy then. Maybe it's the programs. The ones now just don't seem to showcase her talent like they did back then. She just seems mediocre in terms of packaging. Where is it written that EVERY skater has to be like a ballet dancer? Artistry comes in so many different forms. It's subjective I guess. I like powerhouse skaters like Irina etc.

  11. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Sadly this is true. I am sure she wishes she could back in time and redo that one skate. Especialy since Mao had mistakes and she could have won that Grand Prix final as well. That double axel and the injury, it has just never quite been the same since.
    I think it just happened to coincide with a time where she faced increased scrutiny and pressure from being the top American skater. I'm sure sure that, even without the injury, her results would not have been much different.

  12. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Medaled, ROTFL! Ashley skated an almost clean competition at the Grand Prix final that season and barely scored over 160 points, finishing a distant 4th, way behind Suzuki who would finish 8th at the Olympics. The medalists at the Games all scored 200 points, something Ashley was never capable of doing, even today probably isnt. Top 10 would have been a good result for Ashley at the Games that year, she definitely wouldnt have placed as highly as Nagasu who was a better skater at the time when she was "on". And 2010 was not Ashley's peak, 2012 (both the end of the 2012 season and fall part of the 2012-2013 one) clearly was.

    She might have made the 2010 team if she had landed her triple lutz in the short program, only since Nagasu had 3 downgraded jumps in the long program, otherwise she wouldnt have even then. Her almost clean free skate with 6 triples and 3 double axels scores almost 10 points behind Rachael Flatt at those Nationals.




    Sadly this is true. I am sure she wishes she could back in time and redo that one skate. Especialy since Mao had mistakes and she could have won that Grand Prix final as well. That double axel and the injury, it has just never quite been the same since.
    Her spins were better in 2010. Her footwork sequences were more difficult and detailed. She had a lot most fight back then. And her stroking was faster. I'm going to look back at her 2010 Nationals and compare it to now. Yes, 2012 and 2013 she won the title. But I just feel that she had better choreography and basic skating skills in 2010. She still doesn't land a triple-triple combination consistently and she still two foots. I'm not a judge though.

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