Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
From what I remember, Team Hacker specifically requested NOT to be placed on the World Team. I don't understand the reasoning for it, I mean strike while fire's hot. We don't know if Hacker had wanted the World team if she would have been denied.

I remember this. The reasoning was that Hacker felt like she could place higher at Junior Worlds. She would rather place 5th as a Junior than 20th as a Senior.

Not sure I understand if USFS selection comittee has final say. Patricia St. Peter said during press conf. that these are the athletes they are Nominating for the US figure skating team to be presented to the US Olympic comittee. This implies that US Olympic committee does not have to accept nomination. I would assume that is where Mirai's appeal is going. Can anyone clarify.

I think Mirai should still file an appeal. Even if the appeal is not resolved before the Olympics, several good things could come out of it:

1) If USFSA loses, they will never be able to do this to another skater;
2) It will bring needed scrutiny to their selection process;
3) Mirai could get worlds;
4) She could possibly sue them

I would imagine that many lawyers are hearing about this incident and if they think she has a case, will take her case pro bono.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
The Olympic team has three Asian-American skaters (the Shibutanis and Felicia Zhang). 2010 had two (Nagasu herself and Amada Evora). Looking at other skaters from different minority groups - Kwan was nominated in 2006 (when Rena Inoue was an Olympian) and was on the team in 2002 and 1998, as well as being an alternate in 1994. Kyoko Ina was on the Olympic team in 2002, 1998 and 1994. 1992 had Kristi Yamaguchi, 1988, Debi Thomas, 1984, Tiffany Chin. This is just from Wikipedia browsing, so I may have missed someone.

I'm not sure how far back you have to go to find a US Olympic team without any non-white skaters on it, but my guess would be pretty far back. No, the team is not as diverse as some (e.g. Team France). But if the USFSA is racist, they have a strange way of showing it.

Thanks, Buttercup. I think that U.S. skating has been as diverse as it can be since the late eighties or early nineties. All parts of Asia are especially well represented (Korea with Naomi Nari Nam, Japan with Yamaguchi and the Shibsibs, China with Kwan, Gao, and many others, the Philippines with Evora, and Thailand with Lynn Kriengkrairut). On GS, we have discussed the underrepresentation of black and Hispanic/Latino(a) competitors, and the conclusion has been that one main reason is economic. France, with a good record in terms of skaters of color, probably has some sort of national subsidizing of promising youngsters, but in the U.S., it's mostly "pay your own way" below a certain level of achievement unless someone is privately sponsored.

One thing I would be pretty sure of is that Nagasu wasn't left off the team because of race. Politicking by powerful coaches probably is a factor, and maybe a mistrust of Nagasu based on her inconsistency in recent years also weighed against her, but I'd be very surprised if race were the deciding factor. Very surprised.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Interesting comment on this article:

Michelle Kwan was not a battle tested Olympian at the time. Kerrigan was. The reverse is true here. And don't you think there's a difference between not performing because you got assaulted and in this case, not performing cause you choked?

Scott Hamilton said Wagner had not won a free skate all season so what is this unbelievable hot streak people are referring to?
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Interesting comment on this article:

That comment is really misleading. Wagner has results. In this system, you don't have to win the free skate, you just have to accumulate the points (see Jeremy Abbott this weekend). She has the hardware to prove that "hot streak". For people who pay attention once every four years, Mirai is a super star and Ashley is a nobody--and that is definitely the view being put forward in some press reports and from some commenters on their sites. Fortunately, USFSA checks in a bit more often than once every four years.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
France, with a good record in terms of skaters of color, probably has some sort of national subsidizing of promising youngsters, but in the U.S., it's mostly "pay your own way" below a certain level of achievement unless someone is privately sponsored.

.

No, its all thanks to Surya Bonaly, that black/african skaters followed her footsteps
now you have Yrteha, Mae Braenice, Najima Mahmoud and many others
 

noidont

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Thanks, Buttercup. I think that U.S. skating has been as diverse as it can be since the late eighties or early nineties. All parts of Asia are especially well represented (Korea with Naomi Nari Nam, Japan with Yamaguchi and the Shibsibs, China with Kwan, Gao, and many others, the Philippines with Evora, and Thailand with Lynn Kriengkrairut). On GS, we have discussed the underrepresentation of black and Hispanic/Latino(a) competitors, and the conclusion has been that one main reason is economic. France, with a good record in terms of skaters of color, probably has some sort of national subsidizing of promising youngsters, but in the U.S., it's mostly "pay your own way" below a certain level of achievement unless someone is privately sponsored.

One thing I would be pretty sure of is that Nagasu wasn't left off the team because of race. Politicking by powerful coaches probably is a factor, and maybe a mistrust of Nagasu based on her inconsistency in recent years also weighed against her, but I'd be very surprised if race were the deciding factor. Very surprised.

I love how white people always think of Asian American as being from "some country in Asia." No one ever says Ashley Wagner is representing the Germanic people (just guessing) and Polina Edmunds is representing Russia. These girls were all born in America. We are not talking about whether Asian Americans have a presence in the sport which they obviously do. We are talking about the underscoring of Asian American ladies skaters for the past few US nationals at least, something that has become quite noticeable. It's been brought up by people watching the competition almost every year, though of course impossible to prove. Mirai's race might not play a role for her getting ditched for Wagner, but it could have played a role in her placing 3rd instead of 2nd to begin with.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
That comment is really misleading. Wagner has results. In this system, you don't have to win the free skate, you just have to accumulate the points (see Jeremy Abbott this weekend). She has the hardware to prove that "hot streak". For people who pay attention once every four years, Mirai is a super star and Ashley is a nobody--and that is definitely the view being put forward in some press reports and from some commenters on their sites. Fortunately, USFSA checks in a bit more often than once every four years.

Nobody is saying that Wagner doesn't have results. I don't know what you've been reading, but the USFS themselves is acting as if Mirai has no results and Polina has heaps. Why does nationals NOT count for Ashley (her body of work counts), but it DOES count for Polina? Completely inconsistent reasoning. They're showing favoritism and singling out only one athlete to benefit from this while other athletes get the shaft.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Can you recall in the last few years, when it would have been really in the USFSA's best interest to put someone else on a team? I mean previously they had figures. But lets look foreward.

Kristi-
Tonya
Nancy-three world medalists they wanted this team.

Nancy
Tonya-well Tonya was National Champion

Michelle
Tara
Nicole-All three had all the endorsements, world medals..

Michelle
Sasha-Angela may have had a good worlds result but they were thrilled about Sasha!
Sarah

Sasha
Kimmie
Emily (they wanted this one too with Michelle out)

Mirai
Flatt-since Sasha wasn't up to snuff might as well.

This is the first year where the USA's top lady has not qualified outright. In a long time. So to say there's precedent, well there was never a reason for them to invoke such a right
I do recall Tara saying that she was told after US Nationals that if she had finished out of the top three, they told her after they event, that they'd still take her.

Wagner - no world medal
Mirai - Olympic experience
Polina - nothing
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
It exists since September 19, 2012. I don't get your point.

It has always existed, even before September 19, 2012. Yet it has never been applied until now, and only to ladies. How do you not understand this? I will keep repeating this until I'm blue in the face (or keyboard). Not sure why people don't see unfair and inconsistent reasoning when it happens.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Of course the USFSA doesn't know what will happen with Polina. But I think this point they feel why not give her some opportunities and see. I mean Mirai has had basically five years to reach the top level of this sport and hasn't done so.

Hasn't Ashley had ample opportunity to prove herself (at what used to be) trials? She has bombed both times. Ashley even won the free skate in 2010 and she still wasn't named to the team. Why is she named now? 4th place in BOTH SP/LP. Mirai proved herself when it (was supposed to have) counted, both times, something Ashley has never done.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
And how do you know Ashley's spot was "set". Was an announcement made? While many speculated she might get favors from the judges, as she did last year,I haven't seen any criteria published that she was guaranteed a spot.

I suggest reading the selection criteria if you want to see something published that you're looking for. If you actually read the selection criteria you would see that as long as Ashley was in the top 5 she would get a spot because she had the best results in the factors weighed for selection.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I love how white people always think of Asian American as being from "some country in Asia." No one ever says Ashley Wagner is representing the Germanic people (just guessing) and Polina Edmunds is representing Russia. These girls were all born in America. We are not talking about whether Asian Americans have a presence in the sport which they obviously do. We are talking about the underscoring of Asian American ladies skaters for the past few US nationals at least, something that has become quite noticeable. It's been brought up by people watching the competition almost every year, though of course impossible to prove. Mirai's race might not play a role for her getting ditched for Wagner, but it could have played a role in her placing 3rd instead of 2nd to begin with.

I apologize if I have offended you, but I was merely intending to point out that Americans come from everywhere and that Asian heritage is not some catch-all category. Of course they're all as American as Ashley Wagner, but since the question came up, I made the distinction of heritage, not of specifying their nationality, which is American. And certainly on this board mention has been made of Polina being "half Russian," and Agnes Z. being Polish--but both are likewise American.

Of course, I'm not sure you were referring to me to begin with, because you can't know whether or not I am white.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
And how do you know Ashley's spot was "set". Was an announcement made? While many speculated she might get favors from the judges, as she did last year,I haven't seen any criteria published that she was guaranteed a spot.

The USFSA said themselves she was guaranteed, from her "body of work." This means that Ashley could show up and get 10th, according to USA Today, and she would still be sent to Olympics. This is what is in their own published criteria, that they keep referring to. Now, why aren't they referring to the criteria to justify Polina?
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Nagasu has had a hit-and-miss career these past 4 years, but it's not like Edmunds skated lights out on the junior (JUNIOR!) GP either.

Polina won two JGP events. She also is landing technical content in keeping with the top ladies in the world. Polina landed said content (3/3 in the short and two 3/3s in the long) at Nationals.

Mirai is already getting passed by young Russian jumpers. Right now the USFSA is promoting girls Gold and Edmunds, who they feel will be competitive against these young jumpers in the future.

They aren't going to bypass National results for a girl they feel is going to get passed and is already being passed by young Russians.
 

meteorlight8

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Polina won two JGP events.

Yeah but didn't she then choke when it counted (SP at JGPF)? She couldn't even beat the baby Russians on the Jr circuit. I mean I like Polina and think she's got a LOT of potential, but the USFSA needs to be consistent in applying their standards not just cherry-pick based on what's more convenient for them.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Yeah but didn't she then choke when it counted (SP at JGPF)? She couldn't even beat the baby Russians on the Jr circuit. I mean I like Polina and think she's got a LOT of potential, but the USFSA needs to be consistent in applying their standards not just cherry-pick base on what's more convenient for them.

She was second in the free skate, had the highest TES there, and got the highest TES of any US woman. Junior or Senior internationally.. She landed her difficult combinations there too.

She also landed those combo's at Nationals. She did enough at the JGPF to show she could competitive with those Russians. Do you think Mirai has shown she's going to be competitive with them?

This is like the USFSA promoting Tara even though Tara didn't medal at Junior Worlds because they see the potential to do very well...Hughes was only third at Junior worlds.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Yeah but didn't she then choke when it counted (SP at JGPF)? She couldn't even beat the baby Russians on the Jr circuit.

So not medaling and losing to Russians is "choking when it counted" but beating Mirai at Nationals counts for nothing? All of you anti-Polina and or anti-Ashley fans are really cherry-picking your arguments for sending Mirai.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
So not medaling and losing to Russians is "choking when it counted" but beating Mirai at Nationals counts for nothing? All of you anti-Polina and or anti-Ashley fans are really cherry-picking your arguments for sending Mirai.

I have to wonder if Mirai fans really think Mirai would have done better at the JGPF. :laugh: I suspect the USFSA looks at those young Russian Juniors, and the last think is what poor competition. Rather they are thinking :eek::eek:, we are going to have to find kids who can compete with them, otherwise we are looking at another four years of little international success.

Given the technical level of that field, they were thrilled with Polina's result. They'd happily take the lot of those Russian Juniors of Russia's hands if Russia would give them up.
 
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