Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
This whole thing could have been avoided if Ashley had gone out there like the 2 time champ she is, skated like she has in the past and not with those massive nerves. Not that I don't get it, I would be a wreck out there too knowing it comes down to four minutes, but she has prided herself on thriving when the pressure is on and being the best, etc. Now we have this unfortunate situation that has a ton of people upset. I feel really bad for Mirai the more I think on. She earned it. Casting her aside because she hasn't done well in the past isn't the point of a sport. Ashley's proven herself in the past, but she didn't do it when it counted. Mirai did. I just knew there was no way they would leave Ashley home with her name out there and sponsorship deals though.

File that appeal, Mirai. Stand up for yourself. Your fans support you.

I dunno I don't think it was just nerves on Ashleys part, at least in the free. In the free it was VERY clear she was fighting for it- it looked more to me like she couldn't quite get her legs under her.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
I was thinking that exact same thing. There was never a question of whether Ashley was going to be on the team or not, the question was who was going to be bumped. I don't think her goal is to replace ashley cause that's not happening, but maybe she wants them to rethink sending Polina.
I agree, I don´t understand why judges inflated Polina´s scores, she was only fourth in JGPF, no way she is getting those scores internationally.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Well, I doubt that she's actually going to write the letter of appeal all by herself.

I actually also don't think it's fair to say shes not articulate. She is not as poised/rehearsed/canned as some other athletes in interviews, but it's not like she can't or doesn't make clear what she is trying to say- in fact to the contrary, she often manages to convey exactly what she is trying to say, and in a humorous and light way too. I spoke to her among other skater at the competition and certainly did not think, at the very least, that she was any LESS articulate or intelligent than them.

I don't think anyone has any basis for thinking she could not voice her concerns in an articulate way regardless of whether or not it is her writing the letter. It'w also wise to keep in mind that writing is NOT the same as speaking. She could be a gangbusters write or a terrible one. None of us know.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Could be. But Polina is the U.S. silver medalist, fair and square.

Or was it? Her PCS was higher than Mirai and Ashley. really? That will never happen at the Olympics. Not because she is unknow skater but she still skates very much like a jr skater.
 

Orange Cat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
The thing is, what is Mirai going to say, and who is she going to say it to?

"Dear selection committee: I think you should have sent me instead of Ashley."

"Dear Mirai: No, we think we did right by sending Ashley. Thanks for your interest in United States Figure Skating."

I reckon she can appeal on the grounds of the USFS' inconsistent rationale in selecting their ladies/pairs teams. Choosing Ashley over Mirai, while keeping Felicia and Nate in pairs, was an utterly inconsistent application of the USFS' selection criteria. If a skaters' body of work is to be considered, then that should have been the consistent factor; it was used in selecting the ladies' team, but not the pairs. I think that deserves criticism and could be at least part of the grounds for her appeal.
 

LeCygne

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
I saw Mirai comfort Ashley and wipe the tears from her face all throughout the medal ceremony and the photos afterwards, and it was really touching. They really have seen each other go through so much over the years, ever since their junior days. I also don't think Mirai is against Ashley being on the team, but rather Polina. Clearly Nationals results don't mean much now, so why should it matter that Polina was 2nd while Mirai was 3rd? As much as I love Polina and think she has a great future ahead of her, I do think she lucked out massively by skating last in the SP and getting the PCS boost that placed her in top contention going into the long.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Any kind of appeal requires a defensible argument. In this case, I am not sure how Mirai Nagasu can establish such an argument so it's not clear to me as to what exactly she is trying to appeal. That USFS erred in their selection process? That USFS ignored their own rules? That she was being discriminated unlawfully in any shape or form? Failing that, it just comes across as whining and poor sportsmanship. As others have pointed out based on the NBC broadcast, Scott Hamilton and all had no problem locating the USFS document dated from July 2013 outlining the selection process and the events considered. If the document was published prior to the beginning of this season, it was the duty of the skaters to be familiar with them. If Mirai Nagasu is not familiar with the process, her first homework is to review the said document, then decide the next steps. As it stands, it seems to me she is making a decision based on emotions as opposed to using her head.

As for the comments re: she got nothing to lose. I don't agree. Burning the bridges is always a bad idea. It's one thing if her decision to appeal is a carefully thought out supported by a clear argument based on the rules (for example, if the rule states all U.S. medalists automatically qualify for Olympic spots but USFS ignores this rule, then there is a point to the appeal). It's quite another to come across like a sore loser who is whining like a crying baby because the clearly published rules didn't go her way. Not only will the sponsors and any potential sponsors duck away quickly, it's making other skaters uncomfortable. Is it going to be Polina or Ashley? Is Mirai going to tell either of these girls: "Sorry, I deserve more than you, now move!"

Finally, after this buhaha, there is not a fat chance that Mirai will ever be able to skate for Japan. One of the most important cultural norms in Japan is the respect of authority, especially in a company or any organization with hierarchical structure. JSF is clearly a very hierarchical organization and it has happened before some of the decisions it made didn't go well with the skaters concerned. But in Japan, these kids were brought up to keep those emotions in check, it doesn't matter if they are raging inside - you don't denounce your superior, period. Even though these norms are changing and the fact that Oda dare to decline 4CC & retired in such a public manner shows Oda has been somewhat westernized but that's about as far as a Japanese skater will go. Mirai's public outburst is just...unthinkable and frankly, unacceptable in the eyes of Japanese cultural norm. She is an American, not Japanese, it doesn't what she looks like or who her parents are, she doesn't understand how to act like a Japanese and that will scare the hell out of JSF and the Japanese Corporations which are critical in sponsoring pretty much everything.

Those who think Mirai got nothing to lose? Think again.
 

willdu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Does anyone know if Mirai will be skating in the gala tonight? Or is it reserved for olympic qualifiers?:rolleye:
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
anyways, appealing is a good thing for the sport. The USFSA will make sure to let everyone know how they will be selecting skaters for the Olympics at the next Olympic season.

If by "letting everyone know" you mean, "We promise to let everyone know we're selecting the team behind closed doors where nobody can see what criteria we're weighing, but we promise, it's fair."
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
To tell the truth, I doubt that Mirai will appeal at all. Yes, she was busy "drafting a letter" when Johnny Weir called her. I bet she drafted quite few letters -- I know I would have. :)

The problem is, the people she is appealing to are the same people who did her wrong in the first place. They are not going to say, oh, yes, you're right Mirai -- we changed our mind, you can go to Sochi and one of the others will stay home.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Any kind of appeal requires a defensible argument.

The defensible argument is that USFSA has no argument. They have gone behind closed doors and not let anyone see what they're basing the selection on. They have listed the criteria, but what percentage of weight is given to each? Can we see a written report of how they came to this conclusion? How can Polina and Z/B be selected but not Mirai? They have really opened a can of worms with this one.

It's quite another to come across like a sore loser who is whining like a crying baby because the clearly published rules didn't go her way

I have yet to see Mirai behaving in this manner. Appeals exist for a reason, so that sport remains fair. The rules were published (I think? Were athletes aware?), but they were inconsistently applied to some skaters and not others. There lies the rub.
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Love the quote "sunlight is the best disinfectant." So, let's shed a little light on the process. No question that internationally and lately Wagner has outscored Nagasu. But how is it that Nagasu outscores Edmunds except for this Nationals? So, if I was Mirai I would use the logic - I was better than Ashley at Nationals but she was better internationally so Wagner is on the team. But using the same train of thinking, I have distinguished myself better on the international level than Edmunds so why am I not the third choice? Why does the selection committee reverse its logic with comparing me with Edmunds?" Also why wasn't the same logic used with Zhang and Bartholomay in pairs? They beat the former US champions and a pair with some international recognition (Denney and Coughlin) by barely half a point. Zhang and Bartholomay have very little international exposure. Why wasn't the "stronger" international pair picked here? I actually like Z and B over D and C so I'm ok with the selection. But the objectivity is flawed when the various selections are compared.
 

samson

Medalist
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
I don't think the USFSA will be that "offended" about receiving an appeal from her. I think they will understand that. Especially when there is no transparency in their decision process. They can't be surprised that she is doing that.

There are ways to say something, make an appeal, speak your mind, while still being respectful. And if she does go to 4CC/Worlds and medals or wins. I think the USFSA will at the very least be paying attention. A bronze at nationals certainly warrants more attention next season than what she got this season.
 

stella luna

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
I was so excited to see all of the wonderful skating at Nationals this year. Unfortunately, it was ruined by the crap decision to put Wagner on the team. Why doesn't the USFSA just tell certain skaters that it has written off to not bother to even compete? Wagner has not been on her game all season, and it showed in her Nationals performances. I have been watching figure skating more than 25 years and have never seen this happen. She didn't have one off night, she had two. That is a pattern, not an isolated incident.

I agree with someone who said this is one of the reasons people in the U.S. don't watch figure skating. Icenetwork.com is not getting any of my money anymore. Goodbye, icenetwork; hello, YouTube.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I reviewed all the responses. In the end, no matter what is said, done or happens it is a sad situation. And yes, life being life, there are "winners" and losers. Usually your victory is at the cost of someone else. AShley's happiness was at Mirai's expense in respect to the olympics. You can look at the situation from so many angles - the only one safe seems to be Gracie. One can argue anything - how valid it is and how strong your case is another issue.

Polina could be argued despite her second place finish should be off the team as she does not have the results that the US look at for the criteria because she was junior competing in the junior events. Polina could counter I suppose with some Charter breach argument in respect to her age - I know petty but when it comes to the olympics everything is fair game it appears (remember Tonya and Nancy). The system would systematically make it harder for aj unior to qualify than a senior or experienced skater. In some ways in applyin g the process for going to oly's Polina actually may be behind Wagner.

Mirai could argue her past performances at the olympics and that she actually earned third this year's at nationals she can say she beat Ashley in both the short and free and nationals and that she won a bronze medal on the GP circuit and that she is on her way up. She can argue that hte most recent competition and one's head to head should be worth more in the evaluation. she solidly beat Wagner at nats She can argue this sets a dangerous precedent and that the US skating federation should be more transparent and explain how they came to this conclusion(give their reasons). On the other side Mira was the supposed heir apparent and didn't even make it to world's for the most part. the problem is the wording of the rules for the selection process leaves it very open and open enough to come to the decision they made in taking Wagner over Mirai. Mirai can try to argue they put too much wait on past competitions and not enough or nationals but it really seems pointless as the rules dictate it is pretty open how the committee selected.

I think Polina might be more vulnerable in some ways than Wagner. Based on the criteria she is missng I think the announcement didn't help. The US skating federation was stupid in pausing between the naming of the final skate especially since it was alphabetical order. If they wanted to say the process or criteria they should have done this earlier before all the names were mentioned now it is clear though it aint a surprise that the big issue was applying the criteria to the skaters and that meant their entire body of work. The rules allow for such a decision to happen as sad as that sounds.

It is understandable why Mirai is doing what she is doing though it might have been better had she not made comments yesterday about accepting the decision of the federation and now fighting it. She feels undoboutedly wronged and she like every other competitor wants to go to the olympics and vice versa. It is understandable but if I were her lawyer - the rules allow for such a decision like it or not. Now sadly while there is empathy for Mirai but little ground to argue the appeal not that you or she can't do it.
 

willdu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
At the press event for men. Phil Hersh asked whether or not Mirai has filed an appeal. She has not yet done so.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
At the press event for men. Phil Hersh asked whether or not Mirai has filed an appeal. She has not yet done so.

Thank you. She let off some steam over the phone with her buddy Johnny Weir. NBC thought it would perk up the TV audience to report it.
 

cheerio2

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
I reckon she can appeal on the grounds of the USFS' inconsistent rationale in selecting their ladies/pairs teams. Choosing Ashley over Mirai, while keeping Felicia and Nate in pairs, was an utterly inconsistent application of the USFS' selection criteria. If a skaters' body of work is to be considered, then that should have been the consistent factor; it was used in selecting the ladies' team, but not the pairs. I think that deserves criticism and could be at least part of the grounds for her appeal.

Great point.

I totally support Mirai's appeal. She should absolutely fight for her dream and for delivering a great skate when it counted. It's clear Wagner gets extremely preferential treatment from the USFSA. Wagner also got inflated scores at last year's Nationals, she had also turned in a poor performance against Gracie Gold who skated lights out.

As far as the selection criteria goes, it's one thing to consider whether the criteria was applied evenly across disciplines (which it wasn't, as Orange Cat pointed out). It's another issue to consider whether the criteria themselves are fair. You could write the selection criteria to fit whatever accomplishments your favorite athletes happen to have. Here, the criteria placed a lot of weight on placement at GP events and none on Olympics placement. So placing 4th at the Olympics in a very tough field that included Yuna, Mao, Caro, Rochette, and Ando at their primes means nothing? Prior Olympics experience is very valuable, yet it seems to mean nothing to USFSA? I would be very surprised if Ashley can place 4th at this Olympics.

As far as Ashley winning a few GP events...it's a lot easier to win international events when you are so valued and hyped by your own federation. It's a lot harder to do so when you're consistently undervalued and held down by your own federation.

Finally, Ashley is not someone with the stature of Kwan or Cohen. She has not medaled at any World Championships. Winning a few GP events doesn't mean she's suddenly America's great hope who absolutely must go to the Olympics in spite of her poor placement at Nationals, as the USFSA wants to portray it.
 
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