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Thread: Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

  1. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    And you are completely ignoring that fact that it is crystal clear Ashley's body of work is superior to Mirai under the factors considered. You have not once countered that convincingly at all.
    You completely ignoring that McL/B's body of work is superior to the two teams that went to the Olympics.

  2. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Actually there were clear guidelines, set out years ago, that the 2014 Olympic team would be determined by a number of events, not just Nationals.

    Like the Japanese, they have a number of criteria as a failsafe if a really strong, reliable skater, happens to bomb at Nationals as what happened with Wagner.

    The FACTS are the numbers I provided which showed that Ashley has on the GP season scored an average of 30 points higher than Mirai, and even if we consider US nationals it's still an average of 20 points higher than Mirai.

    Mirai beating Ashley once shouldn't negate the fact that none of Mirai's scores this season cleared 180, whereas all of Ashley's did. Consider that this season, Ashley's GP events were both higher than 190 points, and Mirai's were 142 and 175. Those are facts. As pangtongfan pointed out, it's vastly different from the pairs situation in 2010.

    What the hell are you on about?
    During 2010 Olympics, they had the same guideline.
    During the broadcast, and right at the conclusion of the Pairs LP, either Scott or Mark wondered if McL/B would be put on the team for their body of work being much stronger than E/L. Sandra, this hypocrite, said, and I quote, "I'm old school, top 2 go"

    Same situation here. Mirai should go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    You completely ignoring that McL/B's body of work is superior to the two teams that went to the Olympics.
    Like I already said Denney & Barret were the top U.S finishers at Worlds (9th vs only 11th for McL/B), and Inoue & Baldwin had the exact same grand prix results as them that season (a 3rd and 4th). So even heavily factoring in recent results and only a bit of Nationals (vs the 80% of what determines the team Nationals in reality is, but even that isnt enough to justify sending Nagasu over Wagner), they still would missed out on their 5th place at Nationals in favor of winners Denney & Barret, the top U.S finishers at the 2013 Worlds, and 3rd place finishers Inoue & Baldwin, who had the same grand prix results and points as McL/B that season. At best they would have been the alternates over Evora & Ladwig in that case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    You completely ignoring that McL/B's body of work is superior to the two teams that went to the Olympics.
    The policy used for Ashley didn't exist then. And with an 11th place finish at Worlds they were no where near medal contenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    What the hell are you on about?
    During 2010 Olympics, they had the same guideline.
    During the broadcast, and right at the conclusion of the Pairs LP, either Scott or Mark wondered if McL/B would be put on the team for their body of work being much stronger than E/L. Sandra, this hypocrite, said, and I quote, "I'm old school, top 2 go"

    Same situation here. Mirai should go.
    The opinion of the federation based on the criteria they've set out is what matters. We all agree that it's unfair to Mirai or M/B, but based on their own rulings, the skaters sent to the Olympics are who the federation best believes fit their criteria.

    M/B not going to Vancouver was a bit of a jip, but they had 4 teams ahead of them for 2 spots (versus Ashley having 3 ladies ahead of hear for 3 spots). Much more of a stretch to send M/B. If I/B weren't going over E/L, M/B sure as hell weren't. And again, comparing M/B's accolades to Ashley's the past two seasons, Ashley has been far more valuable/productive/whatever you want to call it.

    Anyways, this is getting into a long-winded fest. Mirai can't do anything about Sochi, and should focus on 4CC. Perhaps with a good performance there, the fed might change their mind about not sending her to Worlds.

  6. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    What the hell are you on about?
    During 2010 Olympics, they had the same guideline.
    During the broadcast, and right at the conclusion of the Pairs LP, either Scott or Mark wondered if McL/B would be put on the team for their body of work being much stronger than E/L. Sandra, this hypocrite, said, and I quote, "I'm old school, top 2 go"

    Same situation here. Mirai should go.
    I have read on this forum about 100 times within the last few days that the guidelines were changed in 2012. So the guidelines in 2010 were not the same.
    One might disagree with the new guidelines, or say that they should have been publicized more clearly, or have been thought out to the extreme as to come up with a clear ranking pre-US Nationals, that would clearly define "to beat Wagner for Sochi, Nagasu needs to beat her at US Nationals by 15.37points" which everyone would have known before the US Nationals even began.

    But the fact of the matter is, that's how it is now. This is page 39 in one of the several identical threads that deal with the same subject, I don't think we'll be getting any new perspective on this on page 40.
    Come hang around in the Euros corner, guys, it's fun!

  7. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The policy used for Ashley didn't exist then. And with an 11th place finish at Worlds they were no where near medal contenders.
    Your first argument is correct and a very valid point. Your second point, however, doesn't appear to matter according to USFSA's own criteria. In the Sept. 2012 document, they say the following:
    "To field the most competitive team, U.S. Figure Skating’s ICMS will take into consideration the performances and results from the events outlined below to determine athletes who will have the most performance impact at the 2014 Olympic Winter Games."

    It doesn't seem, from the parts of the document I've read (Admittedly, I haven't read all of it.), that a skater or team's perceived status in regards to winning a medal matters at all – just that they are part of the "most competitive team." Therefore, I'd argue if McLaughlin and Brubaker (given their track record) were competing this year, finished third and failed to make the team, that USFSA misused its criteria, even practiced it inconsistently in light of the ladies' situation. In that case, I'd be curious to know if M/B would have a case for appealing the USFSA's decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Mirai was also 7th at last year's Nationals which hurt her cause. Other than her bronzes at NHK 2012 and CoR 2013, Mirai hasn't had any solid placements in the past 2 years.
    Edmunds was 6th or 7th at last years nationals (junior). Should that have hurt her too, especially considering how close her and marai's score was?

  9. #564
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    Ashley Wagner
    2013 Grand Prix Trophée Eric Bompard 194.71
    2013–14 Grand Prix Final 187.61
    2014 U.S. Championships 182.74
    2014 Olympics ____________

    The downhill wagner. vs the uphill Nagasu. It's all about peaking at the right time and MIRAI did that. So unfair

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Edmunds was 6th or 7th at last years nationals (junior). Should that have hurt her too, especially considering how close her and marai's score was?
    No, she won last year. She was 7th two years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    And you are completely ignoring that fact that it is crystal clear Ashley's body of work is superior to Mirai under the factors considered. You have not once countered that convincingly at all.
    THis thread has gotten so large and I know someone printed out the USFSA criteria for the olympics - I am pretty sure it included junior world championships, junior grand prix events, junior gpf finals and the same for seniors as well as other competitions. So that does not preclude Polina for getting some credit and maybe being very competitiive with Mirai if not beating her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    No, she won last year. She was 7th two years ago.
    Geez, Mirai fans are trying hard to dig up dirt on Polina and Ashley, as if it's going to disqualify them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    No, she won last year. She was 7th two years ago.

    Sorry, they had her competitive chart organized in an unusual way. But I don't see any ranking for world's juniors that year. Was there some reason she didn't go?

  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Edmunds was 6th or 7th at last years nationals (junior). Should that have hurt her too, especially considering how close her and marai's score was?
    Edmunds WON 2013 Nationals last year. She was 6th at 2012 Nationals, beyond the period under consideration, but if you must look that far back, Mirai was 7th at 2012 Nationals, which makes her record look even worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I have read on this forum about 100 times within the last few days that the guidelines were changed in 2012. So the guidelines in 2010 were not the same.
    One might disagree with the new guidelines, or say that they should have been publicized more clearly, or have been thought out to the extreme as to come up with a clear ranking pre-US Nationals, that would clearly define "to beat Wagner for Sochi, Nagasu needs to beat her at US Nationals by 15.37points" which everyone would have known before the US Nationals even began.
    What were the changes between 2010 and this season? Just curious since the only thing noticeable I found was the addition of the Grand Prix circuit itself, before only the Final was considered. The 2006 and 2010 Olympic selection criteria only had 6 events each.

    2006 Olympics selection criteria, "tryout events" priority order:
    a) 2006 State Farm U.S. Championships
    b) 2005 ISU Senior Grand Prix Final
    c) 2005 World Figure Skating Championships
    d) 2005 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships
    e) 2005 ISU Junior Grand Prix Final
    f) 2005 World Junior Figure Skating Championships
    NOTE: U.S. Champion received automatic spot per the 2006 selection doc

    2010 Olympics selection criteria, "tryout events" priority order:
    1. 2010 U.S. Figure skating Championships
    2. 2009/10 ISU Grand Prix Final
    3. 2009 World Figure Skating Championships
    4. 2009 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships
    5. 2009 World Junior Figure Skating Championships
    6. 2009/10 ISU Junior Grand Prix Final
    NOTE: Unlike 2006, U.S. champion not guaranteed a slot per the 2010 selection doc


    Semi-related, does anyone have the criteria from pre-2006? I haven't been able to find anything but I figured it might be interesting to compare.

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