Can Gracie win the gold in Sochi? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Can Gracie win the gold in Sochi?

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
The reason why Gracie can fully rotate a triple toe that is half the height of her Triple Lutz is precicely because her air position is virtually flawless and super tight. This allows a skater to rotate quicker and check the jump better on the landing, which is why she tends to get better toe loop take-offs than Yuna Kim after her Lutz.

Well, I was at US Nationals for the ladies FS, and from my vantage point, I could see Gracie tilting in the air on her 3Lz. She somehow straightened out before landing, and added the 3T. But I don't think that air tilting is textbook.

As for quick rotation--yes, Gracie was rotating quicker than I have ever seen her before. I also saw Gracie at 2013 Worlds, and at these Nationals, she was unrecognizable to me when she came out for the warm-up for the FS. At first I thought she was Ashley Cain, she looked so different. Whether Gracie will always be able to have THAT quick of a rotation throughout her career is questionable.

Seems to me that it'd be better for her long-term if she had more spring in her backend 3T versus quick rotation. Irina Slutskaya was able to do 3/3s very late in her career because she had huge spring in her jumps, and her ability to rotate didn't entirely depend on being very thin and rotating quickly. Michelle Kwan, on the other hand, had to be in really good shape in order to do the 3/3, and that's why it was a lot rarer from Michelle. She couldn't pull it off when she was not in peak condition, which is hard to maintain all season long.

Yuna is a lot more wrapped on her landings than Gracie is, and her landings on that combination is not as secure and solid as Gracie's. Gracie's landing is more "Let's showcase this" while Yuna's Landing is more "whew, glad that's over with."

Maybe for the particular competitions which you focused on, which happened to be one of Yu-Na's weaker 3/3 showings versus one of Gracie's best, which makes for an unfair comparison. Last season, Yu-Na's 3/3s and jumps were at their best at Worlds, and her jumps are likely to be in the best condition of the season at the Olympics as well.

Gracie's 3/3s were missing entirely at 2013 NHK, btw, whereas Yu-Na has never not attempted at least one 3/3 at any senior international competition she's been at. Yu-Na first landed a 3Lz/3T in an ISU competition in 2005 on the JGP. Nine years later, the 3Lz/3T is still in her arsenal. Not every one is equal in quality, but in terms of average quality, total quantity, and consistency over time, at every competition, in the SP and the FS, no one has exceeded Yu-Na's 3/3s.

Let's track Gracie's 3/3s over the next 4-6 years and see how many she lands in her senior career. In four years, I'd be very interested in seeing what Gracie's 3/3 looks like. I certainly will be watching with interest, as I've already stated that I think she has everything she needs, technically, to be a world champion one day. PCS will rise with consistency. If she wins the ladies segment of the team event with perfect performances, I can't imagine her PCS wouldn't be higher in the individual event should she again go clean.

Everyone knows Yuna's Lutz is huge, though. That's the only "huge" part of that combination. In many cases, she take-off for her triple toe without drawing her free foot back which actually results in her URing the back half of that combo, or coming very very close to URing it. That is *not* good technique, at all.

I noticed that Yu-Na take-offs for her 3T has very little pre-rotation, which I always thought was a good thing, because she's still spending as much time in the air rotating as any other skater, if not more. Some skaters pre-rotate WAY more than Yu-Na and even if there's no UR at the landing, overall they spent less time in the air rotating. But I suppose it's not a good thing if you don't take pre-rotation into account, in which case Satoko Miyahara's 3Lz/3T can be considered as equivalent to Yu-Na's.

Interestingly enough, Julia Lipnitskaia got slightly more +GOE than Gracie Gold did at the 2013 Skate Canada SP (+1.20 to +1.10). Whereas Gracie obviously has a bigger 3Lz/3T than Julia, Julia, I believe, had a brief transition preceding her 3Lz/3T. Better flow on landing, too. Skaters can earn +GOE for jumps/spins in different ways, even if one jump is bigger than the other, the other may have a transition, etc.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Yes. Those ugly unpointed toes negate all the other good qualities about her skating, thus giving Gracie the OGM she richly deserves for pointing her toes. :laugh:

Ha ha, I never said I thought Gracie would beat Mao or Yu Na, all things equal, and I never said anything about Gracie's toes. I did say that I'm kinda tired of the Yu Na vs Mao "so four years ago" battle. And I discussed my opinions of the various strengths and weaknesses of Yu Na vs Mao, and I mentioned some of Gracie's improvements under Frank. I also stated that Gracie still has a lot of room for improvement.

But yeah, go ahead and keep reading/ interpreting comments the way you please.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Critiqueing and voicing honest opinions is not bashing. The way Mao fans and Yu Na fans go at each other and their favorites, now that's bashing extraordinaire.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Critiqueing and voicing honest opinions is not bashing. The way Mao fans and Yu Na fans go at each other and their favorites, now that's bashing extraordinaire.

This. This thread is ridiculous with the Yu Na criticism.

Bear in mind, Nationals was Gold first decent SP+LP senior competition. Kim has had tons of those.

Bashing her as not being a technical phenom for not having a consistent 3L is as silly as saying Gold can't be considered a technical phenom for her lip and Julia can't be considered a technical phenom for her flutz.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
This. This thread is ridiculous with the Yu Na criticism.

Bear in mind, Nationals was Gold first decent SP+LP senior competition. Kim has had tons of those.

Bashing her as not being a technical phenom for not having a consistent 3L is as silly as saying Gold can't be considered a technical phenom for her lip and Julia can't be considered a technical phenom for her flutz.
That's not called Bashing! Maybe you didn't read the part where Yuna fans call Yuna' s technique "perfect" repeatedly. It's called debating.
What's crazy is that you can't even say any negative things about Yuna without being attacked by so many of her fans.
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I didn't see any bashing whatsoever.
Maybe you need to reread this thread once again from the beginning. Let me give you an example, Michelle Kwan is a great skater, but her feet are ugly. I can't stand my eyes off of them. If that's not bashing, then what is it? Compliments? Please.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Maybe you need to reread this thread once again from the beginning. Let me give you an example, Michelle Kwan is a great skater, but her feet are ugly. I can't stand my eyes off of them. If that's not bashing, than what is? Compliments? Please.
I never noticed anyone calling Michelle's feet ugly.. I can see maybe Yuna's.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Let's just remember that Kim will retire next month. All these 'bashing' or 'debating' will mean nothing once she retires. 'Cause when she does, all of us must find another skater to 'bash' or 'debate' on. Such is the life of us, figure skating fans...:laugh:

This forum has already found that person. Ashley Wagner. :laugh:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I never noticed anyone calling Michelle's feet ugly.. I can see maybe Yuna's.

very weird how we are obsessed with skaters feet
though I wouldnt call Yuna's feet ugly, more like crooked and flexed, its Yuna's knees that are ugly to look at on the ice
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Kim has messy feet. I cant believe even her fans would deny this. While I disagree with some of the Yu Na detractors on this forum who falsely say she has weak spins, weak spirals (basically implying anyone who doesnt have a Cohen spiral or layback is weak), she does indeed have sloppy feet.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Let's just remember that Kim will retire next month. All these 'bashing' or 'debating' will mean nothing once she retires. 'Cause when she does, all of us must find another skater to 'bash' or 'debate' on. Such is the life of us, figure skating fans...:laugh:

I, for one, am totally looking forward to to the Gold/Osmond/Sotnikova/Lipnitskaia/Edmunds/[insert phenom young skater here] wars. Actually, it'll be nice for the overall war at the top to be USA vs. Russia once again. It'll be like a return to the Kwan/Slutskaya era.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Uh... wait... so I am confused. So I thought this thread is about can Gracie win the Gold in Sochi?! Something about feet?

Okay I will say YES!! So to use CarneAsada's AMAZING methodology, I will give her 14.58478914 % chance based just on the pleasant feet thing + 3lz3t corker thing she does + she is related to Kwan through Frank + that US NEED good ratings to SAVE the sport + she is a BIG Yuna fan (even copied her Scheherazade dress) + Mirai might as well be a VICTIM for something to save the integrity of s@&%$&&... blurp blourp bloppffwarfhghg something! + emm...something about feet?!

[only trying to stay on topic... only this is all very Osmond vs Kim de ja vous! We all know how that went! :rolleye: Apparently anyone can qualify these days just do well at their home event. Actually, I STRONGLY feel I should create a thread name Li ZiJun Vs Kim. Afterall, she did beat BOTH Gold and Osmond in the FS (+ Wagner) at WC2013 and actually went practically cleanish (e on her lutz) and won the other PROPER standing ovation of the night without a home crowd in sight. Sadly she hasn't competed all season due to injuries and other illnesses, except she will debut at 4cc this season. Let's see how she does! Wish me luck!]
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Kim has messy feet. I cant believe even her fans would deny this. While I disagree with some of the Yu Na detractors on this forum who falsely say she has weak spins, weak spirals (basically implying anyone who doesnt have a Cohen spiral or layback is weak), she does indeed have sloppy feet.

Sloppy feet? In comparison with who? Perhaps herself?
 
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