Ladies SP - 2014 European Championships

gmyers said:

She took of going forward did two and a half revolutions in the air and landed very cleanly!

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I was very impressed with Kostner, after a less than stellar season she arrives in Budapest and throws down the gauntlet to the Russian girls, a few more weeks of practice and that will be a competitive programme in Sochi. Overall it's very close among the Top 3, my personal ranking would be Juila, Carolina, Adelina. It will be interesting to see how Adelina handles the pressure in the free, she really needs a strong skate here to throw down a marker for Sochi. I am glad she has gone with the 3T3T.

I'm not a huge fan of Leonova but is good to see her back competing for Russia and being competitive, she certainly gives 100% when she is out on the ice. I assumed her international career was over but against the odds she is on the team for Europeans but I'm sure she has no hope for Sochi. Overall looking at the scores this was a very poor standard competition. Jenna Mc Corkell didn't break 40 and scrapes in to the Free in 24th place, 11 of the girls didn't get over the TES of 20 (incl Jenna). It's a pity the Clara Peters wasn't able to reach the TES and take part, if she skated clean she could have made the free.

I hope the free is of a much higher standard. Not so sure who is going to win but I think I will go for JLip.

LADIES SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT - Updated

1. Adelina SOTNIKOVA (RUS) - 70.73 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Julia LIPNITSKAIA (RUS) - 69.97 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
3. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA) - 68.97 Short Program, 2nd copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
4. Alena LEONOVA (RUS) - 64.09 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 58.64 Short Program, 2nd Copy
6. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA) - 57.38 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Elene GEDEVANISHVILI (GEO) - 54.78 Short Program, 2nd Copy
8. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 54.68 Short Program
9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 54.25 Short Program
10. Nathalie WEINZIERL (GER) - 53.02 Short Prorgram
11. Viktoria HELGESSON (SWE) - 52.55 Short Program
12. Juulia TURKKILA (FIN) - 50.42 Short Program
13. Laurine LECAVELIER (FRA) - 49.12 Short Program
14. Nicole RAJICOVA (SVK) - 49.00 Short Program, 2nd Copy
15. Roberta RODEGHIERO (ITA) - 48.52 Short Program
16. Eliska BREZINOVA (CZE) - 47.10
17. Natalia POPOVA (UKR) - 47.01 Short Program
18. Anne Line GJERSEM (NOR) - 46.63 Short Program
19. Kaat VAN DAELE (BEL) - 46.18 Short Program
20. Marta GARCIA (ESP) - 44.61 Short Program
21. Inga JANULEVICIUTE (LTU) - 44.24 Short Program
22. Isabelle OLSSON (SWE) - 43.97 Short Program

wishing for listing in skating order

regardless BIG THANKS again

Thank you Mao88 for the videos!

Here's my thoughts:

Sotnikova- Wow, this has to be the strongest 3-3 I've seen all season! All of the jumps were superb, with beautiful flow. I could surely see Sotnikova sneaking in for a medal at the Olympics in a few weeks. I must say though, I don't enjoy her SP, because I absolutely hate her music. :disapp:

Lipnitskaia- Her 3-3 seems to have gotten bigger, especially the second jump. While her program is very mature and expressive, I think she could make herself look even a little more mature and ditch the braid in her hair for the Olympics. She's done an excellent job, by the way, of centering and controlling that final combination spin. Lovely! Reminds me of a little Sasha Cohen.

Kostner - Simple, quiet elegance. The only work she needs to do is get those spins spinning faster. Glad to see she's got the jumps back under control, and the confidence as well.

Leonova- She had the audience behind her, clapping, from the second the music started. Great skate. The program is too giddy and goofy for my tastes though. I think she's over-acting. I'd like to see her tone it down a notch, maybe not with the goofy faces in the footwork. I know it's the theme of the music, but it's just too much for me.

Meite- It's hard to go from watching Jason Brown skate to this to her, because he interprets it so much better! Nice 3-3 though.

Marchei- These Italian women are classy, and really know how to carry themselves on the ice. Bravo!

Gedevanishvili - Finally a respectable skate from her. She changed coaches again, huh?

Sochi_2014 said:

Lipnitskaia- Her 3-3 seems to have gotten bigger, especially the second jump. While her program is very mature and expressive, I think she could make herself look even a little more mature and ditch the braid in her hair for the Olympics. She's done an excellent job, by the way, of centering and controlling that final combination spin. Lovely! Reminds me of a little Sasha Cohen.

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I disagree about making her look more mature - her programs, especially the LP, this year have been targeting towards a child-like innocence. And I agree - that final spin has greatly improved from what she did at Finlandia.

Sochi_2014 said:

Leonova- She had the audience behind her, clapping, from the second the music started. Great skate. The program is too giddy and goofy for my tastes though. I think she's over-acting. I'd like to see her tone it down a notch, maybe not with the goofy faces in the footwork. I know it's the theme of the music, but it's just too much for me.

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she's so unashamedly campy in her style. on one hand, i cringe; on the other hand, i'm terribly entertained. i do wish she would tone down the joan crawford smear she has for lipstick...

Wow, all three top ladies were fierce. Here's hoping they keep it up through the FS. How interesting will the Olympics be then?
I think Julia looks young but her skating doesn't. Amei makes a good observation that her programs seem to aim for childlike innocence. I think they may have chosen to go that way because she is so young and looks so young so it's tricky. I don't know that I love the wide-eyed theme of her programs but I do enjoy the choreography itself and her delivery, if that makes sense. Her character in her LP makes me uncomfortable because, actually, Julia isn't a child so why is she playing one? But then she starts skating and I forget all about it and I find her almost mesmerizing. Her pieces are well put together to show her actually skating and dance in between her tricks.
Adelina's SP on the other hand is clearly aimed at saying: I'm a senior lady now. And it works!

Julia reminds me of Sasha because she's so fun to watch and yet people are criticizing her "skating skills." Can someone explain? She doesn't seem as wobbly as Sasha sometimes was.

Leonova doesn't go down easily does she??? Okay, I haven't watch her. I can't decide if I want to because this is exactly how I feel about her:

anthologyz said:

she's so unashamedly campy in her style. on one hand, i cringe; on the other hand, i'm terribly entertained.

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anthologyz said:

she's so unashamedly campy in her style. on one hand, i cringe; on the other hand, i'm terribly entertained. i do wish she would tone down the joan crawford smear she has for lipstick...

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I agree. The over the top faux cheesiness is just too much. I was LMAO and at the same time held my mouse button over the [X] wanting to close the window - badly. It is so bad, that I just can't stop watching it...

And too much make-up on her, IMO...

Too much exaggerated posing in that program, as well...

I dont understand why Judges are favoring these Russian skaters that still skate like girls. Yes they were clean, but their maturity is no where near that of Carolina. I think 33 is a good PCS for Adelina but Carolina should be 35+

I'll watch Carolina again and get back to you. I wasn't blown away or underwhelmed at all the two times I watched it earlier. Julia and Adelina stuck out to me as more exciting to watch but not by a long shot or anything like that. I like the way the placements are. To tell you the truth I honestly thought this was the most fairly judged (SO FAR) event I've seen this season. All three have a fair chance to steal it in the FS.

What's the obsession with everyone having to be more mature when they are young? It then seems then that a magic point occurs when inevitably we want them to be young again. Can't we just enjoy them as kids and then also as adults later?? I also wouldn't say Julia has performed a Juniorish program since the JWC in March. Am I really that blinded by this kid?

Sam-Skwantch said:

I'll watch Carolina again and get back to you. I wasn't blown away or underwhelmed at all the two times I watched it earlier. Julia and Adelina stuck out to me as more exciting to watch but not by a long shot or anything like that. I like the way the placements are. To tell you the truth I honestly thought this was the most fairly judged (SO FAR) event I've seen this season. All three have a fair chance to steal it in the FS.

What's the obsession with everyone having to be more mature when they are young? It then seems then that a magic point occurs when inevitably we want them to be young again. Can't we just enjoy them as kids and then also as adults later?? I also wouldn't say Julia has performed a Juniorish program since the JWC in March. Am I really that blinded by this kid?

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Amen. Kinda over all the posts that mandate younger=immature=lower score... Not always the case. Skaters develop at different rates and changes in body don't always facilitate greater sophistication. I think when Carolina puts it all together she's a wonderful skater and I enjoy her. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy Julia and her more quiet and introverted style concurrently. From a technical standpoint I think Julia's skating is more sound (minus the lutz but she's dinged for that consistently). And she's a better spinner thanks in part to her superior flexibility. But they're both wonderful!

sk8ingcoach said:

I dont understand why Judges are favoring these Russian skaters that still skate like girls. Yes they were clean, but their maturity is no where near that of Carolina. I think 33 is a good PCS for Adelina but Carolina should be 35+

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I watched all three again and here is what I think.

I'll stand by what I said but stress one more thing. Whoever wins the FS between these three should win by enough to win it all. I don't care how the judges work it out. TS or PCS. Is this crazy?

sk8ingcoach said:

I dont understand why Judges are favoring these Russian skaters that still skate like girls. Yes they were clean, but their maturity is no where near that of Carolina. I think 33 is a good PCS for Adelina but Carolina should be 35+

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I hear you. But unfortunately, the judging trend lately gives little discretion between senior and junior, which inevitably confuses naked eyes. The message is that judges are willing to ignore the deficiency that stems from bodily handicap or exclude its subsequent flaws from the realm of measurable skating quality. All that matters for them is whether a skater satisfies GOE conditions or not , which of course can also be viewed as judging delinquency. But apparently they believe that judging flaw based on this so called objectification is better than subjective discrimination.

I really dislike the term subjective discrimination. Scary stuff. Are you saying certain girls get different scores based on their defined body size? Based of course on the deficiencies you deam to exist do to bodily handicaps?

tana said:

After watching Carolina's SP, I feel that the best ladies SP this season are her "Ave Maria" and Mao's "Nocturne". Both are equally fabulous programs!!! You gotta love how Lori choreographs such masterpieces for these two.

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and both those programs has amaziiing step sequences...

Sam-Skwantch said:

I really dislike the term subjective discrimination. Scary stuff. Are you saying certain girls get different scores based on their defined body size? Based of course on the deficiancies you deam to exist do to bodily handicaps?

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First I do not support the current trend, and the subjective discrimination is not my view, but the term is just a reflection on what the judges might have said to defend their practices today. Bodily handicap or its related deficiency often characterized by junior skating, has to do with both aesthetic appeal as well as technical limitation. First of all, if you have less than ideal or advantageous ratio between your height and weight with respect to your own body shape, that critically affects your skating and how it appeals to the audience. Say Rachel Flatt - I don't intend to depreciate Rachel; on the contrary I adore her - due to her body shape her skating often fail to project ideal curvature in her move; her entire body often swings as if she is ready to fall aside or her upper body lacks of high degree of freedom; her arms movement does not show smooth transitions, struggling in incorporating into what she appeared to portray and reenact in her performance. In that sense, she was handicapped. Juniors often cannot absorb the impact of landing adequately into their body which unsettles dynamics of their motion on ice immediately after their landing. that's why you see often their free leg through the roof. That those jumps ought not to be subject to GOE, or considered as excellence nor relevant to juxtapose with senior level skating is my view. Its mimetic, let us say in Platonic sense- flaws constitutes egregious incompatibility to justify its inclusion to senior arena. That's why you cannot help feel that their skating inherently bear disruptiveness in motion like a stringed puppet. That's why their performance looks a series of fractured movements, which is of course not their fault. that's natural and inborn defects in younger body. Figure skating is a sport in constant motion on which skaters are required to make aesthetic buildup with uninhibited set of body language. This linearity embedded in the sport entails physiological compatibility and its merit. Especially in terms of sport science, it is critical for a skater to retain optimal ratio of your body to command your skating. Would you say Midori Ito capable of evoking aesthetic beauty in her best skating like the way Peggy flaming did? Obvious isn't it? If you observe today's skaters, some often lean forward after landing or experience a violent swing due to what was begotten from physiological imbalance. what I meant by the previous post was that judges seem less discerning on this kind of defects, which is good news for those who are subject to these flaws, that is, younger skaters whose skating remains junior.

Sam-Skwantch said:

What's the obsession with everyone having to be more mature when they are young? It then seems then that a magic point occurs when inevitably we want them to be young again. Can't we just enjoy them as kids and then also as adults later?? I also wouldn't say Julia has performed a Juniorish program since the JWC in March. Am I really that blinded by this kid?

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I totally agree with you. An age-appropriate program skated by a young girl, when only skated to the music, nicely choreographed, creating a proper mood, having some interesting nuances and touches can be as intersting as a mature program from an 'older' performer.
I also do not understand the obsession with extroverted programs. If music calls for it, moody, introverted programs are as appreciated in my book. They are just more subtle, more 'mysterious' and I often actually prefer these types of programs than exteremely extroverted, over-emoting performances (see Leonova...). Additionally, certain skaters simply do not have the personality to perform extroverted programs. Then it is just downright wrong to make such programs for them, when they would be great expressing a 'quiet' story with beautiful movements and creating special atmosphere.

Sam-Skwantch said:

What's the obsession with everyone having to be more mature when they are young? It then seems then that a magic point occurs when inevitably we want them to be young again. Can't we just enjoy them as kids and then also as adults later?? I also wouldn't say Julia has performed a Juniorish program since the JWC in March. Am I really that blinded by this kid?

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And another one here to agree. Maturity is a good quality to have, true, but sometimes people seem to take it as the only point they're basing their judgement on. And I don't get that. Even if skaters aren't that mature, they can have dozens of other qualities to their skating. Just look at Elene Radionova - she's not a mature skater, but for me, one of the best performers in the world right now. She's got spunk, fire, expressiveness and obviously loves skating. Her joy lights up the whole arena. I'd take "sweeping joy on the ice" over "maturity" any day...

Li'Kitsu said:

And another one here to agree. Maturity is a good quality to have, true, but sometimes people seem to take it as the only point they're basing their judgement on. And I don't get that. Even if skaters aren't that mature, they can have dozens of other qualities to their skating. Just look at Elene Radionova - she's not a mature skater, but for me, one of the best performers in the world right now. She's got spunk, fire, expressiveness and obviously loves skating. Her joy lights up the whole arena. I'd take "sweeping joy on the ice" over "maturity" any day...

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You are right that there are many elements we consider when it comes to figure skating, but the "maturity" is a broad definition, and when we talk about comparative analysis in judging skaters whose skating calibers are qualitatively incompatible in terms of "maturity" it is not simply one of those elements. It is the aspect of figure skating that provides analytic ground in establishing legitimacy in evaluation. Let us examine a small case. provided that the current GOE specifies height of a jump as one of qualifier, how many small skaters or young skaters can be qualified? It is based on absolute height? Then hypothetically short and young skaters are precluded. Let us say it's not absolute height but comparatively measured height based on individual's physiology. Then how is it justified to prop up junior skater's typical strength in flexibility as opposed to senior's if we take into account comparative merit based on their physical condition? As illustrated in this simple analogy, there is unsettling discrepancy in the current judging practice when you use that yardstick indiscriminately both for seniors and juniors. And moreover the so called maturity is ultimately a given, not exceptional quality that a skater may or may or may not demonstrate in order to compete with other seniors. They may falter, or even outright fall, but they are not supposed to wobble as if they just arrived from moon, unadjusted to the gravity of earth.