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Thread: Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.
    Yes, after the disappointing 2012 Nationals, Frank wanted her to move to Palm Springs, and if finances were a problem, offered to find her a family to stay with at minimal/no cost. My understanding is Mirai's parents, not Mirai, rejected the offer, and Frank then set her up with coach Olson in the LA area instead for the 2012-13 season. Mirai moving to Colorado Springs now is a big deal for her, she is now 21 and moving away from her parents for the first time.

    I think way to many people assume if you train hard, that automatically results in success. It doesn't. One of the biggest obstacles to success in major competitions is handling pressure. I think Mirai had trouble handling pressure at the 2012 Nationals, but she is by no means the only one. In the Boston Nationals, pressure certainly got to Gao, Agnes, and to a lesser extent Wagner. I don't believe for a minute these three skaters went to Boston undertrained, I believe the pressure got to them. Nagasu, on the other hand, went to Boston without a primary coach, skated very well and didn't let the pressure affect her performance.

  2. #197
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.
    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Yes, after the disappointing 2012 Nationals, Frank wanted her to move to Palm Springs, and if finances were a problem, offered to find her a family to stay with at minimal/no cost. My understanding is Mirai's parents, not Mirai, rejected the offer, and Frank then set her up with coach Olson in the LA area instead for the 2012-13 season. Mirai moving to Colorado Springs now is a big deal for her, she is now 21 and moving away from her parents for the first time.

    I think way to many people assume if you train hard, that automatically results in success. It doesn't. One of the biggest obstacles to success in major competitions is handling pressure. I think Mirai had trouble handling pressure at the 2012 Nationals, but she is by no means the only one. In the Boston Nationals, pressure certainly got to Gao, Agnes, and to a lesser extent Wagner. I don't believe for a minute these three skaters went to Boston undertrained, I believe the pressure got to them. Nagasu, on the other hand, went to Boston without a primary coach, skated very well and didn't let the pressure affect her performance.
    Thanks to b-man for reminding us that training hard does not automatically result in success in competition. Important point.

    Not fair for any of us to question the Nagasu family's decision to decline Carroll's offer re Palm Springs. The Nagasus could have had any number of good reasons (not all necessarily related to skating).
    Only each skater and her/his family can fully understand their personal circumstances, dynamics, priorities, etc. Some skaters leave home earlier, some later.
    In some cases, skaters who move significant distances have one or family members at their side (e.g., Gracie Gold, Max Aaron).
    Davis/White have said repeatedly that they were extremely fortunate that they NEVER had to leave home (and/or their hometown area) throughout their career. They lucked out that the finest coaching always was nearby. In contrast, Virtue/Moir left home as young teens and had separate boarding arrangements in Kitchener/Waterloo. In V/M's case, they at least had each other to serve as surrogate "family," attending the same school and training long hours together.
    IIRC, Jason Brown and his parents made an active decision for him to remain at home until he had graduated from high school. With the mutual commitment btwn Kori Ade and him, he did not have to face a tough choice whether or not to leave home any earlier for the sake of his skating.

  3. #198
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    I'm interested about this aspect.
    I don't have a skating background so I wouldn't be able to see that. I mean, I can see when a skater is tired in the second half of the program, or when they lack in speed but I thought this isn't much about how much you train, work.
    I remember that Yagudin and Irina had some issues with their energy and stamina in the second half of their programs? I don't know if it's the same thing you're referring though.
    You can see they are tired as a fan. To me as a skater, it means that unless there are extenuating circumstances, this usually points to poor training plan (IOW, the skater is not doing enough run throughs so that they are on "auto pilot" from a trust in their training when they compete. This # of run throughs is different for different skaters, but there is an optimal number for each skater/program). This is why usually you see skaters improve through out the competitive season - they are getting more and more miles on the program so to speak as the season progresses until they know it backward and forward like their own name and don't have to consciously focus on each thing in the program because they KNOW they are going to do it because they "do it every day" or "do it every session" or whatever their optimal training plan is. You learn about what that is for yourself over time and to be as successful as you can be, you work within that optimal plan.

    For example, when I get a new program, one of the things we work on is WHERE to take deep breaths. The first month or so, I really have to focus on each and every thing in the program (movement, elements, breathing) or else I miss details OR I "hit the wall" before I am done with the program because I am holding my breath/am breathing too shallowly. Once I get enough run throughs in, the breathing part becomes unconscious and I find my dead zone later/at the end. This movement from thinking consciously to unconsciously seems to be what is missing.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    I remember that Yagudin and Irina had some issues with their energy and stamina in the second half of their programs? I don't know if it's the same thing you're referring though.
    Yagudin sometimes overtrained, which caused him to lose too much weight, and that sapped his stamina.

    Irina had a serious medical condition which had put her in the hospital for almost a year. When she recovered and returned to competition, she had to be on steroids to keep her illness under control, and the medication caused her to retain fluid in her body. Fluid retention was much worse when she had to travel by plane long distances. Irina did have problems sometimes with her long programs, especially when she was on higher dosages of her medication.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.
    And then when Frank decided to train Evan, she would have had to uproot herself again, notwithstanding it being back to LA.

  6. #201
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    I mean, it doesn't really matter if the rumors or true or not. Watching Mirai skate I can tell she struggles with her endurance. I can speculate that it's due to training, but I can't prove that.

    However, what I can prove is that these rumors do exist, and that skating is a sport where reputation matters. Rumors can sink careers. While these rumors haven't ended Mirai's career, I am sure it hasn't helped her in the eyes of the USFSA or elite-level coaches. However, now that she's signed up with Tom Z perhaps we'll see an improvement. Personally, I don't think we will, for a number of reasons, but I hope I'm wrong. Mirai is a lovely skater, and I don't think not being as hard working as other skaters is a personality flaw, just perhaps a reason why her results haven't been consistent.

  7. #202
    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
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    Mirai on Twitter today: "Turn your setback into a comeback"

    Love it!

  8. #203
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    Well winning a medal at nationals over Ashley and, with alleged endurance problems, "ain't" bad. lol What will she do if she improves her endurance, if , indeed, that is a problem.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.
    Not everyone is comfortable moving in with strangers, even if they're a very nice host family. It's one thing to move in with roommates, but it's another to move in with a set of parents that aren't yours. Mirai (and/or her parents) seemed to be more comfortable waiting to relocate until she was old enough and mature enough to be living on her own. She definitely had some logistical issues regarding her training, but I can't see how that points to a lack of desire or motivation.


    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    Mirai on Twitter today: "Turn your setback into a comeback"

    Love it!
    Great quote.

  10. #205
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    You can see they are tired as a fan. To me as a skater, it means that unless there are extenuating circumstances, this usually points to poor training plan (IOW, the skater is not doing enough run throughs so that they are on "auto pilot" from a trust in their training when they compete. This # of run throughs is different for different skaters, but there is an optimal number for each skater/program). This is why usually you see skaters improve through out the competitive season - they are getting more and more miles on the program so to speak as the season progresses until they know it backward and forward like their own name and don't have to consciously focus on each thing in the program because they KNOW they are going to do it because they "do it every day" or "do it every session" or whatever their optimal training plan is. You learn about what that is for yourself over time and to be as successful as you can be, you work within that optimal plan.

    For example, when I get a new program, one of the things we work on is WHERE to take deep breaths. The first month or so, I really have to focus on each and every thing in the program (movement, elements, breathing) or else I miss details OR I "hit the wall" before I am done with the program because I am holding my breath/am breathing too shallowly. Once I get enough run throughs in, the breathing part becomes unconscious and I find my dead zone later/at the end. This movement from thinking consciously to unconsciously seems to be what is missing.
    Thanks so much. That's very interesting for me.

    Just out of curiosity. Can you pick out some skaters that you can see from their skating that they had a good training plan?

    p.s. Oh dear, maybe this deserves a new topic? I don't want to hijack Mirai's topic.

  11. #206
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    Not everyone is comfortable moving in with strangers, even if they're a very nice host family. It's one thing to move in with roommates, but it's another to move in with a set of parents that aren't yours.
    Indeed. I would never do that, although I used to live far away from my family since I was little (school dormitory).
    I never liked to live with another family, even when they were my cousins etc. so not stranges. Friends though it's a totally different thing and it's fun.

  12. #207
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Indeed. I would never do that, although I used to live far away from my family since I was little (school dormitory).
    I never liked to live with another family, even when they were my cousins etc. so not stranges. Friends though it's a totally different thing and it's fun.
    Also, some people just aren't ready in today's day and age to move away from their family at the age of 18. We can talk broadly about generational maturity and whether this is a 'bad' thing, but Mirai is far from unique in this respect. I'm almost a full decade older than Mirai now and live far from my family, (and have for 6+ years, so it's clear I CAN do it) but am thinking of moving back to where I'm from for reasons that are pretty much 90% that I miss being close to my family. I don't think that makes me immature or lazy. I think it's more of a value. Now obviously for many reason my situation is not really like Mirai's, but to think someone generally lacks work ethic or drive or whatever just because they want to stay near their family is foreign to me.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Thanks so much. That's very interesting for me.

    Just out of curiosity. Can you pick out some skaters that you can see from their skating that they had a good training plan?

    p.s. Oh dear, maybe this deserves a new topic? I don't want to hijack Mirai's topic.
    I'll answer you: I can. Evan Lysacek was extremely well-trained and it was obvious every time he skated at the peak of his career. He wasn't the most naturally talented, but he was comfortable with the choreography and his skills. He was able to rely on "muscle memory" and perform in his peak condition. A lot of training is periodization--ensuring that you peak at the right moment. The best skater times their peak around Olys/Worlds. So in a way, it's ominous if a skater does too well at the beginning of the season. I know Jason Brown is very well trained but I know that from personal knowledge. However, you can see his programs build, without rests, and that to skate a program like Riverdance without a quieter section takes an incredible amount of endurance.

    And no one is saying Mirai is bad or isn't one of the best skaters in the country! I think she's great. But skaters have different strong points, and I would say Mirai's are her charisma and natural personality, and not endurance.

  14. #209
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    Mirai on Twitter today: "Turn your setback into a comeback"

    Love it!
    Sounds like she is all fired up, I really hope she will have a great season, and make the US team

  15. #210
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    I'd say Michelle and Tara were both skaters with good training plans; they were both known for a strong work ethic. Really, any skater who can consistently lay down clean skates at the biggest events probably has a ton of solid training behind that. It doesn't just happen no matter how talented you are. I liked what Frank said in an interview during Sochi, that God doesn't come down from the heavens and grant you a clean skate; you have to earn it. It seems to me that Mirai did have this back in 2010, but for various reasons (some of which probably none of our business) hasn't been stable for the past few years. I do remember Frank saying in an interview that Mirai did have some off-ice circumstances during that time that played into her not moving to Palm Springs.

    Another factor is puberty can be really tough on endurance - what was once easy is now a whole lot tougher, and some skaters have a hard time adjusting to that. Before you grow it can be a piece of cake to zip through a 4 minute program and afterwards it can feel like you're skating with a grand piano on your back. Mirai wasn't given an easy hand here for the past few years. I don't really expect her to ever get back to her 2010 level but she can certainly build on what she accomplished this year at Nationals with what is hopefully a much better training situation than what she's had.

    As an aside, just because it was mentioned, it's amazing what Irina accomplished in spite of her vasculitis.

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