Ice Dance FD - 2014 European Championships | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance FD - 2014 European Championships

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Even though I/K messed up I must say I prefer watching them to 99.9% of the other teams. Her positions in some of those lifts. I realize eventually Russia may have to move but hopefully they can get it together. I want them to get it together darn it.

I agree... they're the only Russian dance team I currently care to watch!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I'm pretty sure I/K aren't expecting to win in Sochi and I don't see why they shouldn't try for bronze. And denying them the chance to go would be far more demoralizing than any poor result.

Yes, you saying skaters who are trying to do well should retire and essentially all but saying they s.uck IS haterade.
Well it's a huge controversy in Russian skating how much I/k try because zhulin and tarasova have bashed their training terribly! So you say they are trying to do well are they actually trying in a way to compete with the best and teams like c/l ALL the time every day??? They need to to gain momentum!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Engaging in a little topic drift here... but the current one has been about beaten to death, so I hope you won't mind.

It's odd to see a beautiful Russian dance team who don't compete well. When I first fell in love with the sport Russian pairs and dance teams were practically perfect every time out of the gate. They were AWESOME competitors; they came to win and they did, and I was always a little jealous of that... I was much more nationalistic in my younger days... USA, USA, USA!

I can't even hope to tally up all the Americans who were wonderful skaters, but just didn't have the heart of a competitor. I don't remember any Russian/Soviet skaters before who had this problem.

The training is well known to be awful garbage for cop. Kustarova is still a big name who helps morozov. Kustarova and morosov are actually a team that coach and helps I/k!!! If you want to live in Russia and are talented you need to deal with awful non cop coaches who are just the worst! Zhulin is changing programs 3 weeks before the Olympics!!

And also amateur success is not so vital to be on a lucrative pro show.
 

MidnightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Why are so many people trashing I/K ?!.
Yes, she mad an error, a bad error but the rest of the program was amazing.
I know it's human nature but I just don't understand why so many people take great delight when others fail.
I want ALL skaters to skate their best. They train hard in a sport with very little financial reward compared to other sports & get hate from some people who have never even put on a pair of skates.
C/L deserved their Gold medal. I'm so happy for them. But I/K have an amazing future ahead of them & would have won the Gold if they had not fallen.
They are younger than the Italians & I really think have a shot at bronze in Sochi.
Both of their programs are fantastic.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Cappellini & Lanotte

Surprising victory looking at many people’s reaction. I am not surprised. They deserved it fully and without any doubts. Their edges are not deep and they are slower in comparison with top couples, althought they improved. They chose a good music which suits them very well. Whole program was skated with easiness, the music is joyful and they were joyful also, they skated at positive note (and exactly this that music needed). They didn’t allow their nervousity to overwhelmed them (what happened to everybody else), yes, somebody says that this is because of their age (one more reason why to skate for another season), I don’t care why is it for, they did a great job.

Again, Anna had beautiful costume which supported the idea of skating with easiness and in positive mood which is so typical for opera buffa. What I liked (especially in comparison with all Russian couples) – their lifts were done like it would be nothing difficult, they didn’t fight in lifts, they were skating, one step, lift, another step, lift, like there would be no difference between simple turn and lifting partner. All Russian teams were performing lifts in a very heavy-looked way, creating the idea that lifts are as difficult as quad axel. Maybe it is as difficult (for them), but Luca and Anna made it look like candy.

I was surprised with component mark in free program (in both short and free), I totally agree with worse skating skills, but as to choreo, performance and interpretation – they beated Lena and Nikita in a very visible way and not only because they skated clean.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Ilinykh & Katsalapov

From the start I saw that Elena is doing something what I didn’t saw her to do for a very loog time, she pushed herself to be more expressive, that is great thing. She finally moved from Nikita’s shadow, at least for the first two and half minute. She lost focused and fell and then she left everything on Nikita’s shoulders again, he had to push her throught step sequence, whe completely capitulate in last lift and thanks to it the lift still looks like from another genre then ice dancing or Swan Lake or whatever elegant. To expression – Lena tried…I say it…but she changed emotions…she looked angry while I believe that a story should describe passionate woman / swan. The last part which is the most dramatic (looking at music) and everything culminates there…because of that silly fall the program lost all atmosphere. Their free dance mark is funny comparing what they did on the ice and comparing it to Cappellini and Sinitsina. And 10 points for choreography – probably the judge wants to say the Worlds that the perfect ice dancing program in his eyes includes two footed skating, open holds, many stops in music, posing to judges and…at least one fall. Bravo!

I don’t understand a costume – swan costume but with gloves and even bracelet. There are no gloves in ballet, so why is she doing swan/ballet moves? Or why a woman takes ballet costume? And I think that a couple should hide their weak points more – gloves puts much more attention on Lena’s hands and fingers. While Victoria Sinitsina has very good work of hands, Lena uses more and more relaxed hands positions making almost a fist, while in other moments she fully opens her hand like male skaters does (and all those ballet moves with not ballet arms and hands positions) - gloves draw attention to all of this even more. It also draws attention to a fact that during the opening forty seconds of the dance she doesn’t finish her arm movements…finishing it at about 80% percent of the move, not finish stretch of arms. I would recommend to take gloves out of the program, it is not supporting the presentation.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Sinitsina & Zhiganshin

Speed is definitely one of their weapons, sure if you have great skating skills you can achieve speed even with difficult choreo. I can’t avoid with comparison with Ilinykh & Katsalapov, both couples have great skating skills, but Averbukh and Kustarova decided to take a risk and make a choreo not only with difficult lifts, but also difficult step sequences and difficult steps in between. While Lena and Nikita are getting slower and slower at the end, Victoria and Ruslan are keeping the speed. While during step sequence Lena is waiting and Nikita is turning and then Nikita is waiting and Lena turning…both Victoria and Ruslan can turn in one moment. So we have another team who can keep the speed and still skate difficult steps. Both couples are struggling with lifts…while Nikita is looking like weightlifter in every moment, Ruslan looks like he needs to spend more time in gym. Technically there were some things – Ruslan had two shaky moments in first step sequence and stumbled in the second step sequence. Victoria was technically stronger this time.

What I like so much about the couple is their connection to music and story both in slow part and fast parts. I will compare again to Lena and Nikita. We have two couples who came with story of two people who have a romantic relationship between, both couples try to show how desperately in love they are. But how much different it is…Lena stops and looks to judges, send them kiss, then she looks to Nikita, during whole love part she changed looking at Nikita and judges…Victoria and Ruslan are looking at each other for the whole part, they make gestures towards each other, Ruslan is more passionate lover in that part and Vika is a tender one, it makes a feeling that nothing else and nobody alse exist just that feeling between the couple in the story…no posing for judges, no sexy facial expression taken from Vogue magazine…just dancing, creating the story and full connection to music. I don’t agree with Morozov’s idea that expressing deep emotions between two people means that you include judges in that love and show your back part to a partner who you love.
Overall Victoria and Ruslan’s love part is much emotional and better executed both in choreo and interpretation. And final culmination of Viki and Ruslan‘s dance was impressive.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Coomes & Buckland

So much difficult and acrobatic lifts. But I would like to see Nicolas doing lifts with Riazanova, I would be curious to see how he would deal with it. The couple is technically weaker then all Russians and Cappellini. And I must say that instead of learning them ice dancing Platov prefer more easy way and creates a choreo which reminds pair skating so much. That is really not how I imagine ice dancing. And of course with no steps in dancing holds and positions skating and concentrating for all elements become easier. Still I liked the presentation of the first part, movements were sharp enough to match the music, but in the second part they became just performing elements and the third part showed a tiredness – music was sharp again, but their movements were slower.

I read about Nicolas‘ healthy problems, I admire and respect that even with such disadvantage he is able to skate and perform at such top competitions. He is a fighter!
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Riazanova & Tkachenko

They have good basics and skating skills. They are not slow, but their skating heavy, which makes it look like slow skating. Katya is a sexy woman and Ilia is a modest man. Christine is fragile and tender, Phantom is demonic and passionate. So the couple is totally on different side od the planet to such characters, and because they are not so great dancers they can‘t express such characters. I think that choreo is not expressing the story and music as well. In the highlight of music, they are doing so acrobatic lift and overall whole skating is an athletic performance. Katya made a mistake in twizzles but even without it I would be fully for keeping Sinitsina & Zhiganshin ahead of them.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Elena is fragile in many respects, both physically and psychologically. Zhulin said this from the beginning.

I don’t think that Lena would be so fragile…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuKntAaSp-c
…during document with Lena and Nikita in 2011…Zhulin describes the difference between Lena and Nikita, a different approach to them at practise, while Nikita skates better when he (Zhulin) blesses and compliments him, the same approach to Lena will provoke that she starts to think that she is already a star, that she needs a coach who will be tough to her…and Nikita notices that somebody needs a scourge.

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/11280.html
…this is an article from 5th of September, where Lena describes one moment in practise:
She is asked whether is it interesting to work on programs… “There was a very funny episode (smiling). We worked on one part of the program…Kolya wanted to do a little jump there… and I dreamed that it is essential to do a jump in gymnastic split to that accent in music. And I proposed that, but both Kolya and Nikita answered that it would be very difficult, and that the element goes with that part of music well. And I cryed heartbreakely and sobbed on the ice, I screamed that I would not skate at all if we didn’t make a jump in split. In result they laught, spit at all and agreed with me. So the jump in split stayed.“
…I don’t remeber such element in their skate, so they probably put it out finally.

Stavisky let it slip also this year that in their first season with Zhulin Nikita's back was always in pain but we forget that.

Nikita had some back problems in summer 2010, but you know, every skater has some health problems from time to time, every top-level sport is so demanding that nobody stays without any injuries. As I know Nikita had a rest for recovery during that summer 2010, so there was at least an attempt to keep him healthy…and don’t forget, he was not a grown-up yet, body and muscles are not so strong in juniorish age…and their troubles in lifts were known very well, they were never strong in lifts which may also mean that practising that element leaded to injuries not because of Zhulin or Stavitski but because Lena and Nikita were not very “talented“ in it. Even this season Nikita mentioned in interview that Lena did many scars on his body thanks to new lifts. And how about Nicolas Buckland, his health problems are definitely more serious… http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/winter-olympics/25102577
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Oh my me loves C/B they have MJ down pat. What was Marina thinking giving MJ to the Shibs? C/B own them, no matter how they do at OLYMPICS. I can watch that program over and over. Wow.
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
I am allright with the result.
The really worrying fact is that it was nothing really impressive or "wow" or remarkable in this competition.

In 1984 Euro here in Budapest we had Torvill/Dean dancing Bolero before the Olympic, and Bestemianova/Bukin with an interesting Programme.

In 2004 Euro here in Budapest we had Navka/Kostomarov with the Pink Panther programme, which remained to be their best programme in their entire carrier and also the great Denkova/Staviski, whose "push-down" havily started here in Budapest in the favour of Navka/Kostomarov until the Olympics (and than suddenly they got the WorldChampion title in the very same year than the Oly).


And in 2014.?? Nothing.... Similar, boring Programmes with Better or worse technique of the different couples. But that was that. No goose-bump, no chill.
The bad thing is, we have been able to see the future and it doesn't really seems to be shining. Maybe the only exception is Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, I can see the "lion-nails" on them.

So, ladies and gentlemen it is time not to discuss but ENJOY Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, Weaver/ Poje and Pechalat/Bourzat as long as we can, because it seems a LOOOONG pause will come soon....
I'm worried about it, and -of course- it will give more space for politicking more again, when the obvious, undisputable quality doesn't exist-. Scary.

Dear Judges!
Stop to give high PC marks to mediocre couples, because than there is no room to indicate real differencies in the top.

If all these really mediocre couples get 7s, iof course the much better one starts all to get 9s.
It is NOT allright that all the top teams gets 9s. There are bigger differencies between them.
If Ilinikh/Katdalapov gets 9s Davis/White, Virtue/Moir MUST get 11,5, which is not possible.
If they got these 9s, a year later they will get 10 for the next 3-4 years? And what about the others with develpoing great techniques (like Weaver/Poje, Chock/Bates,Hubbell/Zachary, Poirer, Shibutanis , Sinitsina/Zhigalin etc????)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
W/p are leaving? They can dominate the whole next quad with their main competitors being chock and bates and c/l.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
FREE DANCE - VIDEOS & RESULT - Updated

1. Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE (ITA) - 171.61 Free Dance, 2nd Copy 3rd Copy
2. Elena ILINYKH/Nikita KATSALAPOV (RUS) - 170.51 FD, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
3. Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND (GBR) - 158.69 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
4. Victoria SINITSINA/Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN (RUS) - 153.73 FD, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
5. Ekaterina RIAZANOVA/Ilia TKACHENKO (RUS) - 150.44 FD, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
6. Julia ZLOBINA / Alexei SITNIKOV (AZE) - 147.78 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI (GER) - 145.37 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
8. Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI (ITA) - 144.40 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
9. Isabella TOBIAS / Deividas STAGNIUNAS (LTU) - 142.31 Free Dance, 2nd copy, 3rd Copy
10. Sara HURTADO/Adria DIAZ (ESP) - 137.58 FD, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
11. Tanja KOLBE / Stefano CARUSO (GER) - 137.46 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
12. Federica TESTA / Lukas CSOLLEY (SVK) - 136.63 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
13. Pernelle CARRON / Lloyd JONES (FRA) - 135.29 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
14. Irina SHTORK / Taavi RAND (EST) - 131.66 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
15. Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON (FRA) - 131.57 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
16. Justyna PLUTOWSKA / Peter GERBER (POL) - 128.08 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
17. Alisa AGAFONOVA / Alper UCAR (TUR) - 127.96 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
18. Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SORENSEN (DEN) - 127.51 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
19. Lorenza ALESSANDRINI / Simone VATURI (ITA) - 121.65 Free Dance
20. Henna LINDHOLM / Ossi KANERVO (FIN) - 121.09 Free Dance

Medal Ceremony (2nd Copy), Complete Free Dance
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
And in 2014.?? Nothing.... Similar, boring Programmes with Better or worse technique of the different couples. But that was that. No goose-bump, no chill.
The bad thing is, we have been able to see the future and it doesn't really seems to be shining. Maybe the only exception is Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, I can see the "lion-nails" on them.[/B]
I suggest you go and watch Hurtado/Diaz's FD. They are not (yet?) a top team, but their Picasso program is gorgeous and deservedly propelled them to their first top-ten finish, even with the mistake. It's my favorite FD of the season.
 
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