30 for 30: the price of gold

cptnhastings · Jan 17, 2014

Did no one watch this? I'm surprised there isn't a thread. Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan is the most important thing to happen in figure skating in recent history. Such an interesting 90 minutes. I'm really surprised there isn't a thread. Did no one watch? Did I miss the right page to post in?

ice coverage · Jan 17, 2014

cptnhastings said:
Did no one watch this? I'm surprised there isn't a thread. Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan is the most important thing to happen in figure skating in recent history. Such an interesting 90 minutes. I'm really surprised there isn't a thread. Did no one watch? Did I miss the right page to post in?

The most recent post in the existing Kerrigan/Harding/ESPN doc thread was on Jan 8. It gave the new air date of Jan 16.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...res-Nov-5-2013&p=815600&viewfull=1#post815600

Just as well that you started a new thread, IMHO. Some of the discussion in the other thread actually was about NBC's Kerrigan/Harding exclusives coming up during the Olympics.

(BTW, I don't agree that Kerrigan/Harding was the most important thing in recent figure skating history.)

Tonichelle · Jan 17, 2014

I forgot about it, got in the last 20 minutes or so (so basically got to hear Tonya continue to blame Nancy for everything wrong in her life). It was more frustrating than anything else for me. While I don't believe Nancy was an angel or perfect by any stretch of the imagination, I don't believe she deserved what she got. Whether or not Tonya had knowledge that the whack was going to happen, she admitted to knowing afterward and refused to come forward. The USFSA did what they needed to do, they didn't keep her from ever skating again - other skaters did by refusing to participate in anything she was in. She seems to be in complete denial that folks were generally not keen on her "involvement", or the aftermath.

I'm glad she's apparently found love and a little bit of happiness, though. Perhaps healing will begin in the next twenty years?

ETA: it was interesting that the parts I saw Paul Wylie was actually pretty... harsh (for Paul) about the whole thing and on Tonya in general. Whereas Scott was pretty neutral (for Scott) on several points. Considering Scott's autobiography where he didn't mince words I found that more interesting than listening to everybody whine that Tonya has no money and Nancy made millions. :laugh:

cptnhastings · Jan 17, 2014

golden411 said:
(BTW, I don't agree that Kerrigan/Harding was the most important thing in recent figure skating history.)

I agree with this comment. Sorry about that. It's definitely not the most important thing generally, but if you ever talk to a non-skater fan, they'll only bring up the Nancy Kerrigan issue. Anyway, it was a very interesting special.

Tonichelle · Jan 17, 2014

cptnhastings said:
I agree with this comment. Sorry about that. It's definitely not the most important thing generally, but if you ever talk to a non-skater fan, they'll only bring up the Nancy Kerrigan issue. Anyway, it was a very interesting special.

not always... though I would agree the majority will...

S/P came up in a conversation about Team Canada and the Olympics (and I'm from the US and was talking to a fellow American)... he was talking about how hot she was *sigh*... and then wanted to talk about the "little dude who had cancer, who I think died?" (figured out he was talking about Scott Hamilton *facepalm*)

loop9497 · Jan 17, 2014

I haven't seen all of it yet, but Tonya didn't come off very well to me. Not to say that she typically comes across as really nice and likeable, but this time she seemed pretty rude. In the past I felt like she was just trying to make it through the ordeal and maybe hope people would feel sorry for her. But this time she seemed to not care. And I say all of that as someone who has actually felt a bit sorry for her all these years later and hoped she would be able to move on with her life. Tonya complaining about Nancy complaining about Oksana taking so long to get ready for the medal ceremony, as well as her complaining about how Nancy got to experience the Olympics unbothered and she was treated like crap was too much. Like, really? Have some self awareness. Most people aren't going to care about how you were treated after your involvement in the attack (even though you didn't actually hit Nancy). And you and your people created the problem by doing the attack in the first place. After 20 years, I would think she would be able to handle the situation better and come across as more grown up about it.

However, I, too, am glad she was able to marry again and have a child. Hopefully her life is much happier and her child will have a better childhood than she did.

I also thought Paul Wylie's comment about not believing the broken lace story was interesting, too. I didn't expect him to be so blunt about his opinion on it.

Tonichelle · Jan 17, 2014

loop9497 said:
I also thought Paul Wylie's comment about not believing the broken lace story was interesting, too. I didn't expect him to be so blunt about his opinion on it.

Right?! I mean, it was like Scott and Paul switched roles or something! :laugh:

I honestly liked hearing Paul's actual opinion and not the "press release approved" stuff he normally says.

Sasha'sSpins · Jan 17, 2014

I really admired Tonya back in her day. She seemed to have a dysfunctional family life, was not from a family of means but managed through sheer talent and determination to get all the way to the Olympics (the first time without controversy), win National medals and even made the Worlds podium in 1991. Many would have killed for her raw talent. What a waste. Such a shame. :disapp: We'll never really know whose notion it was to attack Nancy, or if Tonya really knew about it before or after the incident but it will taint her all of her days.

All that being said, I still admire Tonya's triple axels and deep edgework all of these years later. Imo only she and Midori threw triples like nobody's business. I'm glad she seems happy now with her new family and hopefully has found some peace.

KKonas · Jan 17, 2014

golden411 said:
(BTW, I don't agree that Kerrigan/Harding was the most important thing in recent figure skating history.)

The Harding/Kerrigan story may not have been “the most important thing” in figure skating history, but it certainly was the most “sensational story,” which is why 20 years later TV is still giving it attention leading into Sochi. The idea that someone would send a “hit man” to incapacitate a rival forever changed the image of the sport. Because the assailant purportedly used a press pass to get to Kerrigan, we (the media) were all subject to scrutiny in Detroit and the crush of media following this scandal all the way to Lillehammer and beyond was unprecedented.

ice coverage · Jan 17, 2014

KKonas said:
The Harding/Kerrigan story may not have been “the most important thing” in figure skating history, but it certainly was the most “sensational story,” which is why 20 years later TV is still giving it attention leading into Sochi. The idea that someone would send a “hit man” to incapacitate a rival forever changed the image of the sport. Because the assailant purportedly used a press pass to get to Kerrigan, we (the media) were all subject to scrutiny in Detroit and the crush of media following this scandal all the way to Lillehammer and beyond was unprecedented.

Thx for your post, KKonas.

Going off topic, but I've been wanting to ask you about this season's USFS media guide:

Does it include the Olympic selection procedure? In many of the Nagasu/Wagner related threads, ppl are complaining (I'm paraphrasing) that it is the fault of USFS that many members of the media were unaware of the selection procedure.
I don't agree with those complaints. At the very least, the selection procedure has long been available on the USFS website. Do I assume correctly that it also is in the media guide?

Thanks.

caseyl23 · Jan 17, 2014

I watched the documentary last night, and I will say, I wasn't impressed with Tonya. First of all, she did try to play the victim card – big time. She seemed eager to blame everyone but herself for what happened in 1994. If she really didn't have anything to do with the attack beforehand, that's fine, but for goodness sake – she admitted she messed up after the attack, and then she complained that she couldn't make money from her skating afterwards?
One of the parts I found interesting was when they were discussing the notes found in the garbage dumpster. Tonya said they tested the writing, and it wasn't hers, but right after that, they showed a clip of the investigator saying they tested the handwriting and it was a match to hers, so on that count at least, it seems she contradicted what was said at the time. Whether that's because she saw the evidence and knew it wasn't hers, she was lying or she'd forgotten, I don't know.

Another interesting thing (I thought) was that Tonya tried to say she and Nancy Kerrigan were were friends before the attack, and in Lillehammer, Nancy snubbed her. Again, I don't know the truth for sure, but that just didn't fit with my impression of their relationship, and the impression given from their quotes in the documentary. I remember reading at some point that Nancy and Kristi Yamaguchi got along with each other, but at the time, I don't ever remember hearing or reading anything about any kind of friendship between Nancy and Tonya, and the press conference clips they showed of both skaters left me with the impression they were very fierce rivals. Now, I know rivalries can be friendly, but not this one – I did not have the impression there was any kind of amicability in their rivalry.

Another thing I found intriguing was when (I think) Mary Scotvold was talking, and she said in the first couple of days after the attack, Evy said, "Tonya was involved," and she asked him how he knew, and he said, "I just do." Talk about gut instinct.

Oh, and Paul Wylie was interesting, too, but I think we have to remember – he was a training mate of Nancy's and from what I remember, also a friend of hers, so I would expect him to have strong opinions about Tonya and the attack. Scott, being from a different generation and not having that contact with her, probably never had the same relationship, so I'm assuming it's easier for him to take a more neutral path.

Mathman · Jan 17, 2014

OT to the OP. "cptnhastings" -- great username! :rock:

Mathman · Jan 17, 2014

golden411 said:
Going off topic, but I've been wanting to ask you about this season's USFS media guide:

Does it include the Olympic selection procedure?

I hope KKontas will reply more fully, but no. The media guide just has information about when the press conferences will be held to announce the results, when the skaters will be available for interviews, etc.

And of course the full menus for all the free meals that the media folks can sign up for.

Tonichelle · Jan 17, 2014

caseyl23 said:
Oh, and Paul Wylie was interesting, too, but I think we have to remember – he was a training mate of Nancy's and from what I remember, also a friend of hers, so I would expect him to have strong opinions about Tonya and the attack. Scott, being from a different generation and not having that contact with her, probably never had the same relationship, so I'm assuming it's easier for him to take a more neutral path.

It's understandable but it's "out of character" from how they've spoken in the past about the subject. Paul basically wouldn't comment that much, and if you've read Scott Hamilton's autobiography you know exactly what he really thinks about the whole thing and Tonya in particular (and it ain't pretty). That's the only reason I was surprised (and amused). It was very different from their norm.

caseyl23 · Jan 17, 2014

Tonichelle said:
It's understandable but it's "out of character" from how they've spoken in the past about the subject. Paul basically wouldn't comment that much, and if you've read Scott Hamilton's autobiography you know exactly what he really thinks about the whole thing and Tonya in particular (and it ain't pretty). That's the only reason I was surprised (and amused). It was very different from their norm.

Fair enough – I don't think I've heard Paul speak about it before, so knowing what little I do about his background, I wasn't surprised. I kind of wondered if – since Nancy didn't appear in the documentary herself – Paul, her husband and her coaches might have spoken for her for this project.

And I haven't read Scott's autobiography yet, but I might have to – you've got me curious, now!

ice coverage · Jan 17, 2014

Mathman said:
I hope KKontas will reply more fully, but no. The media guide just has information about when the press conferences will be held to announce the results, when the skaters will be available for interviews, etc.

And of course the full menus for all the free meals that the media folks can sign up for.

Thx, MM. I mean the media guide for the 2013-14 season ... as opposed to the media guide only for Boston 2014 Nats.
Maybe you mean the 2013-2014 one too -- although I am surprised that the Boston LOC would have worked out all the logistical details soooo many months in advance (I read on the USFS site about hard copies of the media guide for the season).

BTW, yesterday I did go back and look at some USFS media releases, and at least as far back as the Jun 2012 announcement that Boston was selected as the host for 2014 Nats, the official language has been:

"The 2014 U.S. Championships will serve as the FINAL [emphasis added] qualifying event prior to the selection of the U.S. Olympic Figure Skating Team that will represent Team USA Feb. 7-23, 2014, in Sochi, Russia, at the 2014 Olympic Winter Games."
http://www.usfigureskating.org/event_story.asp?id=48163

The same phrasing of "final qualifying event" was used in at least three other press releases leading up to Boston 2014, including the one right before Nats started.
Seems clear to me that USFS purposely was leaving itself wiggle room to invoke the selection procedure that takes other events into account.

(Don't worry, MM -- I do understand that your own point has been not that USFS neglected to inform the media (a false premise to me), but a different one: that Wagner's selection for the team is the first time that USFS has bypassed a medalist.)

Sorry, will try now to let this thread return to the Kerrigan/Harding discussion.

Mathman · Jan 17, 2014

golden411 said:
Seems clear to me that USFS purposely was leaving itself wiggle room to invoke the selection procedure that takes other events into account.

Actually, I have to applaud the PR person who came up with "final qualifying event." The USFSA wants it both ways -- and why not? A big whoop-de-do about how big and important Nationals is, combined with, as you say, wiggle room to do as they please when it comes down to the nitty-gritty.

loop9497 · Jan 17, 2014

caseyl23 said:
I watched the documentary last night, and I will say, I wasn't impressed with Tonya. First of all, she did try to play the victim card – big time. She seemed eager to blame everyone but herself for what happened in 1994. If she really didn't have anything to do with the attack beforehand, that's fine, but for goodness sake – she admitted she messed up after the attack, and then she complained that she couldn't make money from her skating afterwards?

Well, I didn't mean that she didn't want people to feel sorry for her at all. I guess I didn't explain it well. To me, this time it just seemed like she did not care about trying to coming across as a wounded person in terms of how she presented herself in her interviews for this documentary. In the past, I felt she sometimes had a softer image (probably mostly do to PR) when speaking of the situation - a sad, "boohoo" vibe. But this time, she was really blunt and had an attitude about how things turned out for Nancy versus how things worked out for her. It was ironic to hear her complain about things that she and her people caused. And I think if she wants people to still feel sorry for her, acting the way she did is not the way to go about it. I think it will alienate people even more.

Plus I guess I was just hoping for some personal growth from her on this situation at this point, but nope. It just seems like she is angry at Nancy and how things worked out for her. That does her no good.

KKonas · Jan 17, 2014

golden411 said:
Thx for your post, KKonas.

Going off topic, but I've been wanting to ask you about this season's USFS media guide:

Does it include the Olympic selection procedure? In many of the Nagasu/Wagner related threads, ppl are complaining (I'm paraphrasing) that it is the fault of USFS that many members of the media were unaware of the selection procedure.
I don't agree with those complaints. At the very least, the selection procedure has long been available on the USFS website. Do I assume correctly that it also is in the media guide?
Thanks.

It has never been in the media guide booklet. I did speak to a high-level US judge (a former member of the International Committee) on the phone today and he verified that the decision for the OWG team in Boston was done exactly according to the list of USFS "requirements" that has been in place for some time.

ice coverage · Jan 17, 2014

KKonas said:
It has never been in the media guide booklet. I did speak to a high-level US judge (a former member of the International Committee) on the phone today and he verified that the decision for the OWG team in Boston was done exactly according to the list of USFS "requirements" that has been in place for some time.

Thx for the verification from your source who is a judge.

And for your answer re the media guide. My opinion remains that publishing the procedure on its website eons ago was sufficient. Mere mortals like me had read it there. That said, adding the procedure to future editions of the media guide would not hurt either.

30 for 30: the price of gold

cptnhastings

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Tonichelle

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KKonas

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caseyl23

Mathman

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