Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 57

Thread: Is Patrick a lock for gold still?

  1. #31
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Also with a hard fall, he won over a clean Patrick - to use all Patrick nay-Sayers' standard which they have been using for years.
    Yep, but for some reason people are more outraged when Chan was the beneficiary of similar circumstances. Hmmmm....

  2. #32
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    216
    The battle between Hanyu and Chan is going to be interesting. Both skaters' best performance wasn't their most recent, which just further complicates things. Just hope they both skate without regrets

  3. #33
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    407
    I never thought I would say this, but having finally seen youtubes of the GPF, Patrick was robbed.

    Actually, I don't think either of them are all that great. They both are skating very soft, feminine, boring programs. I miss Evgeni vs. Alexei or Brian vs. Brian. Those skaters held me captive. These two are dull.

  4. #34
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    I never thought I would say this, but having finally seen youtubes of the GPF, Patrick was robbed.

    Actually, I don't think either of them are all that great. They both are skating very soft, feminine, boring programs. I miss Evgeni vs. Alexei or Brian vs. Brian. Those skaters held me captive. These two are dull.
    Did you see the short programs of both skaters as well? Yuzuru had a massive lead over Patrick after the SP, and deservedly so, I think.

    Patrick: http://youtu.be/d3NVbORhgH4

    Yuzuru: http://youtu.be/eKAaHWjVgvM

  5. #35
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,887
    The bookies (most accurate indicators of favorites) make it clear Yu Na is far more an overwhelming favorite to win than Patrick is.

  6. #36
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,140
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    We know Sotnikova wont skate cleanly so are you saying they would put Sotnikova with even 1 mistake (likely more) above Yu Na with 1 or 2. Sorry I cant see them doing that, even in Russia. The idea of Sotnikova skating cleanly and Yu Na not skating cleanly in the same event, or Sotnikova making less mistakes than Kim in the same event (and that is the only way Sotnikova would beat Kim even with biased Russian based judging) is akin to winning a lottery ticket.

    Julia meanwhile is just too weak in many aspects of her skating to beat Kim without several mistakes, no matter what.
    No, I was saying that with bs Russian judging, Yu Na can't afford a major mistake against a clean Sot/Lip.

  7. #37
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,140
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    The bookies (most accurate indicators of favorites) make it clear Yu Na is far more an overwhelming favorite to win than Patrick is.
    The reason is Yuzuru, who is a legit challenger. Kim doesn't have legit challengers and the gold is hers to lose, but I think there will be greater PCS bs with Kim's event. Although Plushenko is likely competing in men's so expect 95 points PCS again, lol.

  8. #38
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Also with a hard fall, he won over a clean Patrick - to use all Patrick nay-Sayers' standard which they have been using for years.
    So Hanyu is the heir apparent; the tide favours him. That's life; momentum changes so fast remember before it was Dai - and he barely made the Japanese team and even then it was hugely controversial (had it been in the US we would have a Mirai much a do about nothing scandal.).

  9. #39
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    328
    To be fair, Patrick was clean in the GPF (i.e. he didn't fall), but he made many mistakes: in the SP he stepped out of his 3A, doubled his Lz, and ended after the music was over. He was better in the LP, but did botch a spin--Yuzuru got a little higher TES in the LP than Chan, but not much. If both skate perfectly, the men's competition in Sochi will be really, really exciting--and I for one would love it!

  10. #40
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,887
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    No, I was saying that with bs Russian judging, Yu Na can't afford a major mistake against a clean Sot/Lip.
    I agree with the inevitable bias towards the Russians it is possible a totally clean Sotnikova (who is a really great skater if she were ever on, and better than consistent Julia) could beat Yu Na with a major mistake or two. However that means you are conceding even Sotnikova has to skate clean and Yu Na not, or Sotnikova skate cleaner than Yu Na to beat her. There is about as much chance of that happening as one winning the lottery, as Yu Na is the more consistent skater of these two by light years, and yet Sotnikova has to skate cleaner, not just equally clean, to beat her. Heck the Sotnikova skating cleanly part, minus what Yu Na might do, is already akin to winning a lottery. Nationals was the competition of her life and it still wasnt clean, and would have lost to Julia if she didnt step out of a jump in her SP. Maybe if she dumbs down her planned difficulty she might finally do it, but then Kim's mistake margin just rises even more. Sotnikova has only managed to beat Julia once this season,a and never in a LP, despite that Julia has lower scoring potential than her and greatly improving her own consistency to a level it has never been before, just due to Julia's great consistency. Kim is equally consistent to Julia and has more scoring potential than Sotnikova (anywhere, even in Russian homeland), so you do the math on her chances to beat her.

    So now we move on to Julia. Julia at her own Nationals was perfect in the LP and barely broke 140. At Europeans which like most years had ridiculously pro Russian and pro European judging that is higher than they ever manage in Worlds (although with the Olympics in Russia this year Russians alone might be scored on close to the same scale as Europeans) she didnt even reach that. We know a perfect Yu Na can score around 150, and in the short program would score atleast 5 points higher than Julia, so Kim would have to either have mistakes in both programs, or a semi disaester in the LP to ever lose to Julia, even with the inevitable Russian bias due to the Games location.

    Yu Na's biggest threat for the gold medal, even as unlikely as she herself is to do it, is still Mao. Julia a close 2nd. Adelina maybe a very distant 3rd (with like 0.1% chance to beat Kim). Kim is overwhelming favorite and much stronger than Chan at this point, as Chan has a much more serious threat in Hanyu than any Kim has, and also faces potential threats from Machida, Takahashi, Fernandez, and even inconsistent spoilers like Abbott, Ten, if they have a great competition and Chan does not.

  11. #41
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    407
    Quote Originally Posted by Matilda View Post
    Did you see the short programs of both skaters as well? Yuzuru had a massive lead over Patrick after the SP, and deservedly so, I think.

    Patrick: http://youtu.be/d3NVbORhgH4

    Yuzuru: http://youtu.be/eKAaHWjVgvM

    Thank you very much. I had a hard time finding Youtubes in English for this competition. I'm sure those Russian commentators said very insightful, helpful things, but unfortunately, I couldn't understand any of them. I love the British guys!

    Having seen all four skates by these two men, the only one that was outstanding was Hanyu's short program. He seems like a different skater in both programs, much stronger and more masculine in the short than the long. I think he may need a better free skate costume. He doesn't seem like Romeo as much as Japanese Johnny Weir.

    Is Patrick not as good as he once was? I never could stand him and I used to when he won with a mistake filled program, but there was always something compelling about him. You could see that his programs were excellent and would be outstanding if he could just execute all the moves cleanly.

    I'm not seeing that now. He's skating to dull, soft music in dull gray costumes and it's just blah. He got on my nerves sometimes, but he was never boring.

    So, guys, my advice:
    1. At least one new costume a piece
    2. Don't copy other skaters. Yuzuru, you don't work that half bride/groom suit as well as Johnny, and Patrick, you don't spin as well as Stephane Lambiel, so don't use the same music as he did. Go back to "Take 5" or "Phantom of the Opera" or that Spanish piece with the red shirt.

    Hope they listen!

  12. #42
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,514
    He Poodlepal - I think it is a little late to make switches to programs. And Hanyu simply is wearing a Weir designed and influenced outfit while Patrick has made 4 seasons his own. Following your argument Lambiel shouldn't have done vivaldi's piece and left it to Usova and Zhulin or the many other great versions of it.

  13. #43
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Matilda View Post
    Did you see the short programs of both skaters as well? Yuzuru had a massive lead over Patrick after the SP, and deservedly so, I think.

    Patrick: http://youtu.be/d3NVbORhgH4

    Yuzuru: http://youtu.be/eKAaHWjVgvM
    Yup, Hanyu deserved the win based on his short program. He didn't deserve to win the FS though, although his high technical content allowed for it. If the GPF skates are the same at the Olympics, Hanyu should win but I can picture the viewers crying foul if they saw Chan skate clean and Hanyu fall, because casual skating viewers tend to dismiss the SP... Heck even fans who closely follow the sport forget about the SP and cry foul at wins/placements.

    Any casual fan watching the Euro pairs would be outraged that S/K lost.

  14. #44
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Regardless his spins, I think Patrick's Four Seasons is a lot better than Lambiel's Four Seasons.
    It is. At the time of Lambiel's 4 Seasons it was great but Chan's FS is way more intricate and ambitious in its choreo. As for interpretation that's a matter of preference, but anyone who suggests Lambiel's 4 seasons was somehow better choreographed or more difficult in general is just a diehard lambielfan deluding themselves, or a Chan hater, or both.

  15. #45
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,887
    Lambiels Four Season is way better. He feels the music with his soul and his skates to the music at all times with his body movements and facial expressions, which Patrick in no way does. Patricks Four Seasons is in fact quite boring, regardless of its scoring merit. Years from now nobody will go back on video and watch it again, which many still do for Lambiels better performances to that exquisite program.

    Usova & Zhulins Four Seasons is by far the best ever mind you.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •