Men FS - 2014 European Championships

Ziggy · Jan 18, 2014

wallylutz said:
DeNial isn't just the name of a river in Egypt...

I never said that Kovtun should have got TES higher than the other two Russian guys. He doubled two jumps, had some cheats, didn't do a three jump combination and he has paid the price for all that with lower base value.

But PCS is something completely different. How jumps are executed or not should have no bearing whatsoever on how PCS are scored (unless those mistakes disrupt the flow of the program - Kovtun had no bad falls or messy step outs which would). There are no jumps or other technical elements mentioned in the PCS criteria. Those are two separate marks.

A skater can fall 5 times and just give up and 'walk through the program' and then this obviously should impact the PCS.

But a skater can fall 5 times and still continue to present their program well, maintain speed and so on and so forth (check Popova's FS for example) and then the only thing you can legitimately deduct on the PCS is the lack of flow due to the falls and possibly even not that if that skater gets up very quickly and gets back into the program straight away.

Kovtun doubled two jumps at the start but then he went on for everything else and skated the whole program with good speed and attack.

Frenchie · Jan 18, 2014

Ziggy said:
P.S. I don't love, or even like, Kovtun's skating.

That's what I find most hilarious about the situation: People who are saying Kovtun should go to Sochi, or even just that Kovtun is better than someone else in a specific category, mostly are not even (big) fans of him!
I, for one, was really mad last year when the Russian Federation sent Kovtun over Menshov to the WC. But now that I've said I think Kovtun deserves to go over Plushenko because of his GP results and RN win, Plushenko fans assume I have to be a diehard Kovtun fan and ask why I'm "so invested"... I don't enjoy Kovtun's FS music at all, and I find his entry into the 4S and 4T ugly.
I'll speak for myself, but this whole situation has just awakened my sense of justice! I'll admit that things were much more black and white before today's EC FS though :laugh:

Alex D · Jan 18, 2014

Awesome work by Peter!
Nice quad toe at the start and a very solid performance.

I am also happy about Menshov, he really deserved that. Its a shame about Sasha however

Zoli thumpsup:

deedee1 · Jan 18, 2014

I am over the moon for Menshov and Voronov!!! :hb:

Isn't it just WONDERFUL to see these veteran skaters, who have been competing on senior circuit for many years, to get onto the Championship's podium finally?! :yes: expecially those who have been treated unfairly and rather coldly by their federation time and time again. WELL DONE, BOYS! :clap:

CaroLiza_fan · Jan 18, 2014

Frenchie said:
What unfinished business could he accomplish if he went? Since his unfinished business was not winning in 2010 - which he did in 2006btw - you're suggesting that he'd have a shot at gold? (beating Hanyu, Chan,...)

Honestly... yes!

Unless Chan is being overscored, I believe a Plushenko skating at his best could beat him.

For me, the tough competition will be coming from Japan. Particularly Hanyu, but also Takahashi if he is totally fit.

If they all skate clean, I believe the 2 Japanese will beat Plushy. But if he does and the Japanese don't, Plushy will take no prisoners!

I haven't started thinking about my Top 5 Predictions for the Men yet. But, everything being equal (i.e. no inflation for anybody from judges), I would choose these 3 for the podium. It is just a matter of order.

Call me mad, but I have a lot of faith in the great man!

CaroLiza_fan

qwertyskates · Jan 18, 2014

I don't like Kovtun, but I can see how Tarasova judges that he is an excellent raw mineral to groom and polish into a great gem to convincingly deliver an ambitious program. Nerves, and his apparently unpleasant person, though, is his Achilles heel, he isn't Lipnitskaia.

Ziggy · Jan 18, 2014

CaroLiza_fan said:
Unless Chan is being overscored, I believe a Plushenko skating at his best could beat him.

With his slow skating and empty programs? The judges probably still could give him the highest scores but I don't think that they should.

A 2002-2006 Plushenko could definitely easily win these Olympics and probably would, since as we all know Chan isn't consistent. But it's 2014 and his body is just not capable of what it once was.

Frenchie · Jan 18, 2014

Alex D said:
Awesome work by Peter!
Nice quad toe at the start and a very solid performance.

Peter Liebers had the 4th highest TES score today :agree:

Mao88 · Jan 18, 2014

MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT - Updated

1. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 267.11 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
2. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) - 252.55 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) - 237.24 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
4. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 236.98 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
5. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) - 232.37 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
6. Peter LIEBERS (GER) - 225.76 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
7. Tomas VERNER (CZE) - 223.66 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
8. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) - 221.95 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
9. Jorik HENDRICKX (BEL) - 205.92 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
10. Alexei BYCHENKO (ISR) - 203.76
11. Alexander MAJOROV (SWE) - 202.47 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
12. Chafik BESSEGHIER (FRA) - 198.07 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
13. Florent AMODIO (FRA) - 190.13 Free Skate, 2nd Copy

Icey · Jan 18, 2014

When a skater falls 5 times or even less, that is not presenting the program well. I think the problem is the use of the word "present". Evidently it means a much different thing to lots of people and certainly, if what you say it true, to judges. If a ballet dancer fell several times in a performance or left out a planned choreography, few, if any, critic would say the presentation was done well. There seems to be lots of confusion in this area and there really shouldn't be.

In any case, I enjoyed this competition more than any I have seen this season.

CaroLiza_fan · Jan 18, 2014

CaroLiza_fan said:
Unless Chan is being overscored, I believe a Plushenko skating at his best could beat him.

Ziggy said:
With his slow skating and empty programs? The judges probably still could give him the highest scores but I don't think that they should.

A 2002-2006 Plushenko could definitely easily win these Olympics and probably would, since as we all know Chan isn't consistent. But it's 2014 and his body is just not capable of what it once was.

I agree with you on all points.

That's why I said "at his best" in my post - that's my "get out of jail free card"!

I don't want to see Plushy winning by being propped up by the judges - we've had enough of that with Chan in recent years.

But, I still live in hope that the break he is having from not going to Euros will give Plushy the chance to get fully fit in time for Sochi, and to get his programmes polished up.

We can all hope!

CaroLiza_fan

deneuved · Jan 18, 2014

Personally, I wouldn't send Kovtun anywhere. The guy can't take pressure when it really counts - getting spots for his federation. Last year, he bombed at Worlds, and it is SOLELY his fault that Russia has just 1 spot at the Olympics! Now - he kind of bombed again, being the worst-placed Russian at Euros. He did well at some Grand Prixs? Not the same in my book. Leave him at home till next year.

Florencito · Jan 18, 2014

Trewyn said:
Aww Javier crying during the anthem! He's so sweet! And he really cares about his fans - awesome. I hope he has a good Olympics. Never liked Voronov before, but seeing him look so happy and excited - I can't help being really happy for him too. And Menshov.

And it was so cute and sad when he said that he's known only at the competitions, while Spain still doesn't really care

FFS, Spain, he's writing your history!

LRK · Jan 18, 2014

Woohoo! Javi - two-time European Champion! Huzzah!

And yay for Voronov and Menshov - Menshov especially! To him that bronze must be more precious than gold!

Loved Brian of course.

And sigh for Tomas and Florent... Why, guys?

But, mostly, I'm chuffed - and yay for the German stream actually showing the Two Steps montages! Love those!

But I have a gripe with Swedish channel 7 - who the he... ck shows commercials in the middle of a live competition?! Show them during the warm-up pauses, you idiots! Otherwise I'm glad to have been able to watch on TV, and I quite like Filip Stiller. But what the heck, producers?!

Frenchie · Jan 18, 2014

CaroLiza_fan said:
Call me mad, but I have a lot of faith in the great man!

CaroLiza_fan

I respect your opinion too much to ever do that... Hey, I went all-in and predicted Joubert 3rd at the EC, so...

Ziggy · Jan 18, 2014

Icey said:
When a skater falls 5 times or even less, that is not presenting the program well. I think the problem is the use of the word "present". Evidently it means a much different thing to lots of people and certainly, if what you say it true, to judges. If a ballet dancer fell several times in a performance or left out a planned choreography, few, if any, critic would say the presentation was done well. There seems to be lots of confusion in this area and there really shouldn't be.

IJS is supposed to reward each element and each PCS criteria separately based on its own merit.

Just because a skater makes mistakes on some elements doesn't suddenly nullify everything else.

Each performance has negative and positive aspects to it.

I think the problem is, the judges go on a 'general impression' of how a program was performed - with everything getting muddled - and given the time constraints and a lack of a system for marking PCS, I can understand why that is the case.

ImaginaryPogue · Jan 18, 2014

LRK said:
But I have a gripe with Swedish channel 7 - who the he... ck shows commercials in the middle of a live competition?! Show them during the warm-up pauses, you idiots! Otherwise I'm glad to have been able to watch on TV, and I quite like Filip Stiller. But what the heck, producers?!

I'm intrigued. Here in Canada, after every skate, there tends to be a commercial break. Program-skaters leaving the ice-commercial break-return with some short replays-score-next skater.

Is that not the sequence you're used to? Or are they showing commercials in the middle of the actual skate?

LRK · Jan 18, 2014

Icey said:
When a skater falls 5 times or even less, that is not presenting the program well. I think the problem is the use of the word "present". Evidently it means a much different thing to lots of people and certainly, if what you say it true, to judges. If a ballet dancer fell several times in a performance or left out a planned choreography, few, if any, critic would say the presentation was done well. There seems to be lots of confusion in this area and there really shouldn't be.

In any case, I enjoyed this competition more than any I have seen this season.

I often find that I've enjoyed Euros the most of any competition during the season... I'm not even sure why - maybe because I have too high hopes and expectations of other competitions and they aren't really realised? The gap between what could have been and what was being too great? I don't know, really... but... there it is..

marija · Jan 18, 2014

Is there a possibility to somebody to put a link to the video of award ceremony? Please...!

LRK · Jan 18, 2014

ImaginaryPogue said:
I'm intrigued. Here in Canada, after every skate, there tends to be a commercial break. Program-skaters leaving the ice-commercial break-return with some short replays-score-next skater.

Is that not the sequence you're used to? Or are they showing commercials in the middle of the actual skate?

Yes! They even missed a skater here and there! I've never seen this done before and it's just... baffling. And utterly annoying.

ETA - Oh, I should perhaps add. During the last group they twice did as you said - went to commercials whilst waiting for the results. This is not something I'm used to either. Eurosport doesn't do this. And SVT doesn't have commercials at all. But... skipping entire skates?! That's just... beyond the pale, in my book.

Men FS - 2014 European Championships

Ziggy

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!

Alex D

deedee1

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA

qwertyskates

Ziggy

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!

Mao88

Icey

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA

deneuved

Florencito

LRK

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!

Ziggy

ImaginaryPogue

LRK

marija

LRK

Similar threads

Connect with us