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Thread: Can Lipnitskaya close the gap on Mao & Kim in time for the Olympics?

  1. #211
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    I seem to be finding contradictory posts about skaters from the same person, and it is confusing me.

  2. #212
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    I never said Julia is bad, I said she's not as good as Yuna or Mao. It's not fair for to compare her to them at her junior age. Unfortunately, people want to rush her into the gold medal. I've been consistent saying it's too early for her unless others make some mistakes.

    I hope I can praise a skater and criticize them at the same time.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    You are the most violent person I've ever seen on a skating forum. You give us Yuna fans a bad name. And, I feel sorry for you.

    If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

    Skateluvr, where are you? I'd like to have a friendly conversation.
    Who's us? You and Skateluvr? Well certainly you two do deserve a room together, and make sure you stay there.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Who's us? You and Skateluvr? Well certainly you two do deserve a room together, and make sure you stay there.
    You seem unable to accept any criticism of Yuna whatsoever. She happens to be my favorite skater. She's the reason why I started following skating again. But, because I criticized the design of her LP and her presentation, you have followed me around on the internet with vitriol and long-winded hatred. For what purpose? Does it make you feel better? You think because I don't like her LP that it invalidates my appreciation for her, I'm no longer authorized to be in the Yuna fan club?

    Grow up please, or put me on ignore. Either one, I don't care which.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    You seem unable to accept any criticism of Yuna whatsoever. She happens to be my favorite skater. She's the reason why I started following skating again. But, because I criticized the design of her LP and her presentation, you have followed me around on the internet with vitriol and long-winded hatred. For what purpose? Does it make you feel better? You think because I don't like her LP that it invalidates my appreciation for her, I'm no longer authorized to be in her fan club?

    Grow up please, or put me on ignore. Either one, I don't care which.
    Weak and a liar.

    It isn't why and you know it. But if that is what you choose to believe, then so be it. You are already on my ignore list already, but when your name keep pop on the thread I write on, yeah i want to make sure i haven't miss anything that might have referred to my post.

  6. #216
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    Her LP has not been received too great this year. Not bad, but just meh. That's not only me, that seems to be the opinion of a lot of people who look critically at it instead of just embracing all things Yuna. Now she's up against Akiko and Julia who have much better LPs. Maybe others too. The judges and audience notice.

    The program might be better at Sochi, I reserve the right to say so. I hope that's the case, like last year at WC. Because I not only want her to win, but I want her to deliver a performance she will be satisfied with, and the audience will remember forever. I want all three of those things from my favorite skater in her adieu to competitive figure skating. I don't want her last skate ever to be some esoteric piece that leaves everyone going "meh".

    But, I said almost 2 months ago there were problems with the program and the audience would not connect with it. I tried to point the problems out, perhaps not always as concisely and eloquently as I would have liked, and so you took it upon yourself to attack me non-stop since then all over the internet. Even when I post about Julia and Mao, you find a way to attack me about Yuna. Makes no sense.

  7. #217
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    I don't like the personal attacks and criticism that often pollute fan boards. Being a fan doesn't mean never being disappointed or being critical of a favorite skater. What is important is respecting everyone's dignity and right to their opinion no matter how much you might disagree with it.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by jatale View Post
    I don't like the personal attacks and criticism that often pollute fan boards. Being a fan doesn't mean never being disappointed or being critical of a favorite skater. What is important is respecting everyone's dignity and right to their opinion no matter how much you might disagree with it.
    Believe the slanderous accusations ad nauseum if you must Jatale. If anyone has ever read my posts over the years will know while I can be passionate about making a point, I have rarely ever act unreasonable.

    Ven however had a bone to grind for weeks based on our previous exchanges when I took his points apart. The fact he has been continued to obsessively pound on the same points everywhere in literally dozens and hundreds of the same schtick in an effort of 'if you repeat them long enough it must be true', it grew RIDICULOUS, TEDIOUS and yes ANNOYING so I put him on ignore. I regret to check to see if he has misconstrued my posts again just to ridicule them as he has done in the past, instead, I find him making another ridiculous gobbledygook that has nothing to do with the direction of the thread and decide to call him out on it. Big mistake! The whole childish attacks and taunting on my character however is as vile as well as as any other generalization that has nothing to do with his problem with me on a one-to-one basis and he knows it.

    Now if anyone still want to talk about skating carry on... i will give this thread a break, because frankly it is doing my head in... and I still have 4CCs ladies to look forward to which I'd like to have my zen self back to at least try to enjoy it.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I never said Julia is bad, I said she's not as good as Yuna or Mao. It's not fair for to compare her to them at her junior age. Unfortunately, people want to rush her into the gold medal. I've been consistent saying it's too early for her unless others make some mistakes.

    I hope I can praise a skater and criticize them at the same time.
    Sorry, now I think I get what you mean. I also think there's no way that Julia can win the Gold unless either Yuna or Mao make costly mistakes. But I think she's so good she's definitely in the range of 3rd to 4th unless she makes significant technical mistakes (maybe even 2nd).

  10. #220
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    Os you got offended because I tried to break down the program and find its flaw from a critical perspective. Had I simply said "I feel nothing from this program" as others did, it would have made you mad, but that would have been the end of discussion. Instead, I wanted to find out "why" did I feel the program was off? You know, it's not an easy process, because if the mistake were obvious, Yuna and David would have noticed a long time before any of us.

    Through civil dialogue with a couple of friendly posters, I was able to come to the determination. You were not one of those people; instead you found the entire discussion sacrilegious. To the people who were friendly and helpful, I thank them.

    -----

    The first problem with the program was Yuna's conditioning. I feel she wasn't able to express her full potential because of injury, lack of training, and fatigue. She said during an interview after Nationals, that in the next month before Sochi she will work hard on presentation. This and a few other things suggest to me that she was more focused on jumps and levels at Golden Spin and Nationals. So in this respect, we should take comfort to know that Yuna will be polishing her presentation very hard right now, and we are likely to see a much better performance at Olympics.

    The second problem with the program ... I don't feel the interpretation was sincere to the music. Adiós Nonino has very powerful feelings of sadness and melancholy that lead to acceptance of finality. The music is about expression of those emotions, that the composer cannot reach final acceptance of the situation without cathartic release. Astor Piazzollo designed the music in a very specific way, where those emotions linger and build until they are finally released at climax, and then by the end he accepts the finality of the situation. Like a Shakespearean five act play the music is constructed as follows:

    1) introduction to set the mood
    2) rising action ... the emotions build and build and build
    3) climax ... cathartic release of those emotions
    4) falling action or post-climax ... the performer takes a breath to collect herself
    5) finale ... the performer girds herself and embraces the end in a furious climactic sequence

    This is why Adiós Nonino makes a perfect vehicle for Yuna's final performance. It's absolutely the right choice of music, but the problem is her performance lacked emotional depth to match the meaning. For starters, there's a crucial piece of music that was cut out of Yuna's version right before climax. It's so vital to building the emotion in the music that in hindsight I can't believe it was left out. When I mentioned this, Krislite kindly suggested that perhaps David intentionally left out that part of the music, to de-emphasize the emotion. So I thought about that approach, and my feelings are that if David and Yuna wanted to go that direction, the music cut should have focused on the later piano sections from the "falling action" part of the music. There's less emotion present there because it comes after the climax. If you want to de-emphasize emotion, use the parts of music that have less emotion in them.

    ^^^It only took me a month of thinking and many posts to figure that out. In that case, the performer could have skipped the building and building of emotion, the tear-jerking climax, just skipped all of it, and gone for an interpretation of the falling action which contains less emotion in the music.

    Instead, the music cut focuses on the "rising action", where the emotion builds and builds. So... if you want to de-emphasize the emotion in the music, these are not the correct sections to include in the cut. But now they are there ... so what do they build to? They build to the climax, and the interpretation must understand this process. Just as Astor Piazzollo built the emotions in the music to a very certain point -- the moment of deep despair in the music that properly sets up the climax -- so to the performer must build the emotions to a moment of despair. That critical part of the music was left out of Yuna's cut, so it will be up to Yuna to make the audience feel the emotions that the music otherwise would have done.

    1) introduction
    2) rising action ... sadness, loneliness, longing, regret ... tempered with maturity and composure ... these emotions must build and build

    What do they build to? They build and build to a moment where the emotions are at their most intense
    (which should match with the 2nd half of the step sequence)

    3) climax ... the emotions are released with the rise in the music
    (the whole program builds to this moment and it must be set up and experienced properly for the audience to really feel the performance)

    4) falling action ... Yuna completes the next section including her spin, and then has one final moment to take a deep breath and say "here we go"

    5) finale ... the furious final sequence where Yuna accepts the end of her career ... notice in the music there is a sense of finality.

    -----

    So like I said, the important thing for Yuna's Sochi performance .... there needs to be emotional depth. A sense of maturity. I said it before, she's a 23 year old woman now capable of expressing much deeper emotions than when she was younger. We should not be getting the same performance as 19 year old Gershwin girl with just different music playing the background. Yuna was fun and flirty back then ... Adelina who is 17 is doing fun and flirty these days. Mao seems incapable of moving the audience emotionally because she only cares about her 3As and flashy footwork. Julia is immature and couldn't possibly understand the range of emotions in something like Adiós Nonino, let alone convey them to the audience.

    A truly emotional, expressive farewell ... that's Yuna's trump-card over all of her competitors (other than her superior talents, anyway). Why would she waste that? She's perfectly capable of moving the audience with a mature and emotional presentation. I for one would like to see it happen.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Okay... I will take back about everything I said Kostner's PCS score at EC was repressed, oh boy was I wrong. For the FS, she actually got the highest PCS in her entire career, and 3rd highest of all time. For the SP, she got her 2nd highest PCS only got surpassed by 0.17 at Worlds 2013, which was the 5th highest PCS of all time. I admit I originally got the wrong impression from Sonia Bianchetti article
    http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writi...peans2014.html

    According to the rankings of these PCS records list out properly in black and white, it seems they did try to inflate Kostner's PCS as much as possible despite her low TES but just wasn't enough, because others especially Adelina was getting massive boosting too. The overwhelming inflation of PCS this year is truly crazy. Will Olympics set new territory to ensure consistent inflation to all skaters or just the selected few who got there first?

    Here are the top 10 highest PCS charts for ladies SP and FP, check out the proportion of TES vs PCS and event it happened.

    FS (PCS) Best ever scores
    http://oi41.tinypic.com/30agn74.jpg

    SP (PCS) Best ever scores
    http://oi43.tinypic.com/2ppir1c.jpg

    Re: jenaj

    I think you are quite wrong about Yuna get inflated by PCS, if ever, certainly not made any difference in ranking. Even arguably she should have like others always got. I'd like you to show me examples when she did and explain how it can justify the PCS inflation that the Russian newbies got this year.
    Wow, the pcs these days really are inflated, it surprises me to see the actual scores and comparisons.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    @SashaSpins

    My ??? Stemmed from my confusion over what you meant. I was not disagreeing with you. I thought maybe you were saying that you once adored Julia but now you don't. If that's what you were saying I was just wondering why. I thought we were both Julia fans...I know I can be a bit overly pro Julia which has really not been received well at times even in pro Julia threads but I make no apologies or hide my view that she is the most exciting and beautiful skater to watch(in my eyes) I'm really glad that you too agree that looking a certain age is not a factor to ever be reflected in the scores. I really hate when people pressure girls to look and act older only to, at some magic point, yet maybe less discussed, be desired to be young again. Obsurd and infuriating not to mention offensive. I for one find her less is more approach very tasteful with not only her make-up but also her facial expressions which are more heartbreaking than anything else, even in her SP.

    Back to topic: Do you think Julia has closed the gap on Mao? I say yes. Not so sure about Yuna and she is a bit of a mystery at this point to me at least. I think silver would be great for Julia and satisfy my 'Julia bias' and have me pumped for 2018 when she will be 4 yrs improved and still under 20. She will only be 23 in 2022 and I contend she very well may keep her body type. I work with skaters well into their 20's with a similar body type. Not sure why everyone thinks she is doomed. The girls I know aren't on a world class work out regiment or as focused on the circus stretches Julia must work on for at least an hour a day but now I'm off topic again.
    I've no idea how you got that impression from my post. I began by defending Julia's presentation skills:

    (original post) 'I don't feel the same about Julia. She's 15 yes but she doesn't skate like a junior especially compared to someone like Polina Edmunds'.

    I was responding to most of the previous posts before mine, which seem to be attacking Julia's presentation skills or lack there of, her high PCS scores, apparently mostly due to her youth (which is the impression that I am getting).

    And the last thing I said in my original post: 'I'd be delighted if either she or Adelina would win the Olympic title - but only with 2 great skates, not home cooking.'

    Again, I fail to see how you got the notion from my original post that 'I once adored Julia but now I don't'. My post was nothing but supportive towards Julia, as well as Adelina. Some are trashing Adelina's presentation skills too - again I disagree. I enjoy her work as I do Julia's. Every one has a different style. As to presentation, different strokes for different folks.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    You seem unable to accept any criticism of Yuna whatsoever. She happens to be my favorite skater. She's the reason why I started following skating again. But, because I criticized the design of her LP and her presentation, you have followed me around on the internet with vitriol and long-winded hatred. For what purpose? Does it make you feel better? You think because I don't like her LP that it invalidates my appreciation for her, I'm no longer authorized to be in the Yuna fan club?

    Grow up please, or put me on ignore. Either one, I don't care which.
    Don't fight Yuna ubers you need to be united

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Don't fight Yuna ubers you need to be united
    Haha.. don't you start. Glad you enjoy the show, we might as well laugh at something among all these craziness before the Olympics.

    Ven is an interesting case for sure, I have rarely come across such a self righteous obsessive individual who harping on about the same thing over and over again ad nauseum instead of accepting a discussion should be based on merits, of exchange of ideas, instead of close mindedness and ego and that is perfectly fine to agree to disagree. Look at the way his wave his 'You only don't like me because I don't like Yuna' FS rants and felt had to drag an unrelated old issue, as well as a whole carriage of character assassination, accusation and sweeping generalization only to distort the thread again, wth?!

    Yes I have snapped him weeks ago only AFTER weeks of him making these long winded posts over and over again everywhere, then today to check he hasn't misinterpret my post to ridicule them like he has done before (of course he proceed to demonstrated exactly why I find him so annoying to begin with ). Just where exactly is this hate and vitriol and long-winded hatred he accuse me of? Do back up all your mud sling I challenge you. Over react much?

    This is basically Ven/ToFarAwayTimes and me in a nutshell.

    Me: I disagree with you on this.

    Ven: Because you are a crazy uber who lacks objectivity and lack the sensibility of an artiste that I am!!!!

    Me: I find you annoying.

    Ven: Because you don't like the fact I don't like Yuna's FS!!!!

    (Proceed to repeatedly insist his deeply emotional 'catharsis' interpretation is the ONLY way to realize for this delicate modern jazzy rendition of Adios with another thousands words essay, and its sequels, trilogies, chapter 64s.)

    Me (weeks later): Can you stop being annoying.

    Ven: You hateful vile yunabot, I am RIGHT for not liking Yuna's FS, I am a REAL fan and here's why!!! another long strand of digital pollutants....again again again... like a broken record.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    Yeah. From afar YuNa is probably thinking, "Oh, those Russians are skating so well. Oh, isn't that interesting, Gracie is the American champ. Oh, that young Polina, I wonder if she'll be here in 2018?. ..... Now back to business; what's Mao doing?"
    of all the statements here , yours only make sense

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