Can Lipnitskaya close the gap on Mao & Kim in time for the Olympics? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Can Lipnitskaya close the gap on Mao & Kim in time for the Olympics?

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
On a side-note(?) I guess would be the best term look at this article:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-budapest-sochi-2014-winter-olympics/4598371/

"I was very nervous before my skate and my legs were trembling," Lipnitskaia said. "In the second half of the program I was able to pull myself together and skate really well."

"Emotions help me to perform well," said Lipnitskaia, the first Russian winner of the event since Irina Slutskaya in 2006. "I always thought that they would distract me, hinder my technique, but I discovered that emotions help me improve my performance."

"I think that now as a European champion I should make the team," Lipnitskaia said. "My goal for the Olympics is just to skate clean and show good skating."

I think she will do very well.

:agree:
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Isnt this COP system about racking points. All skaters do it

Seriously. Julia's LP starts with an interesting 'introspective section", but thereafter, it's all about landing the jumps and then her firework of fast spins in the latter part. Not that they are not impressive when she does everything cleanly, but it is all about racking points.
 

sleepymom

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Well, to each its own. I have watched Julia's European SP and LP, but no... performance-wise, she's projecting beginning and , probably ending. To me, performance aspect is non-comparable.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Well, to each its own. I have watched Julia's European SP and LP, but no... performance-wise, she's projecting beginning and , probably ending. To me, performance aspect is non-comparable.

Agreed. She has good presentation beginning and end, but she's young and only able to do one thing at a time. When she skates through her program, there's no presentation.

Everyone should just give her time to grow up and improve. She's only 15. If everyone stopped pressuring her to win this year, she could get better and be a star next time around.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
I just had this funny idea, I wonder if anyone agrees. I think Julia reminds me of Mao more than any other skater. Right now she's like a less-polished, junior version of Mao. I think if her career survives puberty, she could become a less artistic but technically more consistent version of Mao Asada.

Imagine you are driving down the highway, and you are chasing after a goal. Mao has the polish to just maintain speed, let the goals come to her, and then she ATTACKS. Julia on the other hand, she just sees the goal and she speeds up and drives faster to reach it. It's the impatience of youth, less polish because her mind is not developed enough like Mao, who has the advantage of being older.

Whereas Yuna has beautiful, regal style to her, but no pretentiousness, like a beloved Queen, Mao has her own unique style that I would describe as very sharp and determined. Neither style can be argued over the other, it's personal preference, and the difference in their abilities comes down to other things besides their style. But in this way, I think Julia reminds me of Mao more than anyone else.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Okay... I will take back about everything I said Kostner's PCS score at EC was repressed, oh boy was I wrong. For the FS, she actually got the highest PCS in her entire career, and 3rd highest of all time. For the SP, she got her 2nd highest PCS only got surpassed by 0.17 at Worlds 2013, which was the 5th highest PCS of all time. I admit I originally got the wrong impression from Sonia Bianchetti article
http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_europeans2014.html

According to the rankings of these PCS records list out properly in black and white, it seems they did try to inflate Kostner's PCS as much as possible despite her low TES but just wasn't enough, because others especially Adelina was getting massive boosting too. The overwhelming inflation of PCS this year is truly crazy. Will Olympics set new territory to ensure consistent inflation to all skaters or just the selected few who got there first?

Here are the top 10 highest PCS charts for ladies SP and FP, check out the proportion of TES vs PCS and event it happened.

FS (PCS) Best ever scores
http://oi41.tinypic.com/30agn74.jpg

SP (PCS) Best ever scores
http://oi43.tinypic.com/2ppir1c.jpg

Re: jenaj

I think you are quite wrong about Yuna get inflated by PCS, if ever, certainly not made any difference in ranking. Even arguably she should have like others always got. I'd like you to show me examples when she did and explain how it can justify the PCS inflation that the Russian newbies got this year.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
I just had this funny idea, I wonder if anyone agrees. I think Julia reminds me of Mao more than any other skater. Right now she's like a less-polished, junior version of Mao. I think if her career survives puberty, she could become a less artistic but technically more consistent version of Mao Asada.

Imagine you are driving down the highway, and you are chasing after a goal. Mao has the polish to just maintain speed, let the goals come to her, and then she ATTACKS. Julia on the other hand, she just sees the goal and she speeds up and drives faster to reach it. It's the impatience of youth, less polish because her mind is not developed enough like Mao, who has the advantage of being older.

Whereas Yuna has beautiful, regal style to her, but no pretentiousness, like a beloved Queen, Mao has her own unique style that I would describe as very sharp and determined. Neither style can be argued over the other, it's personal preference, and the difference in their abilities comes down to other things besides their style. But in this way, I think Julia reminds me of Mao more than anyone else.

I think I agree with you about Julia resembling Mao, but being technically more consistent.

However, I think that if Julia hasn't finished going through puberty (which I personally think is what was going on last year since she grew several inches and her body changed - by any definition puberty), she will still manage as good results as she did 2nd and 3rd at GP qualified for GPF where score-wise she would probably have placed 4th. It's pretty much impossible to predict how she would have done at Sr Worlds compared to her Jr Worlds result.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
I have a funny idea, why don't you stop being a frigging embarrassment and make ridiculous posts. Mao, Julia, Yuna are all very different type of skaters with their own merits, so give it a rest. Most annoying poster ever!!!!

You are the most violent person I've ever seen on a skating forum. You give us Yuna fans a bad name. And, I feel sorry for you.

If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

Skateluvr, where are you? I'd like to have a friendly conversation. :p
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Okay... I will take back about everything I said Kostner's PCS score at EC was repressed, oh boy was I wrong. For the FS, she actually got the highest PCS in her entire career, and 3rd highest of all time. For the SP, she got her 2nd highest PCS only got surpassed by 0.17 at Worlds 2013, which was the 5th highest PCS of all time. I admit I originally got the wrong impression from Sonia Bianchetti article
http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_europeans2014.html

According to the rankings of these PCS records list out properly in black and white, it seems they did try to inflate Kostner's PCS as much as possible despite her low TES but just wasn't enough, because others especially Adelina was getting massive boosting too. The overwhelming inflation of PCS this year is truly crazy. Will Olympics set new territory to ensure consistent inflation to all skaters or just the selected few who got there first?

Here are the top 10 highest PCS charts for ladies SP and FP, check out the proportion of TES vs PCS and event it happened.

FS (PCS) Best ever scores
http://oi41.tinypic.com/30agn74.jpg

SP (PCS) Best ever scores
http://oi43.tinypic.com/2ppir1c.jpg

Re: jenaj

I think you are quite wrong about Yuna get inflated by PCS, if ever, certainly not made any difference in ranking. Even arguably she should have like others always got. I'd like you to show me examples when she did and explain how it can justify the PCS inflation that the Russian newbies got this year. Or that she doesn't deserve the ranking she got?

Haha, in 4cc judges seem finally calming down. Hopefully it serves a reminder of sobriety on duty.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Anyone with 2 eyes and a brain can look at Julia and see that she's not nearly the skater as Mao Asada or Yuna Kim. It's disturbing that -- with a flawed program (several of her jump landings were bad, she would have received negative GOE on the last sequence) -- that she could score better than Mao's best ever, and be up there within reach of Kim's.

That's is crazyl. None of her jump landings were bad except for maybe the first 2 Axel, which even if upper-body was strange on the landing, she maintained her back outside edge for a couple of seconds and did not have to put her free leg down. She got 0 GOE on her first two jumping passes even though they were perfectly landed with satisfactory height. And for your information she did receive negative grade of execution for that last jump combination not sequence because of an edge call, not because it wasn't well-executed. She had a minor glitch on the first 2Axel and went on to execute a program with a higher base value, that she has never done before on the fly. Now that is incredible. And it is your opinion that the program is flawed, evidently an opinion that is not shared by international judges.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
I never said Julia is bad, I said she's not as good as Yuna or Mao. It's not fair for to compare her to them at her junior age. Unfortunately, people want to rush her into the gold medal. I've been consistent saying it's too early for her unless others make some mistakes.

I hope I can praise a skater and criticize them at the same time.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
You are the most violent person I've ever seen on a skating forum. You give us Yuna fans a bad name. And, I feel sorry for you.

If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

Skateluvr, where are you? I'd like to have a friendly conversation. :p

Who's us? You and Skateluvr? Well certainly you two do deserve a room together, and make sure you stay there.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Who's us? You and Skateluvr? Well certainly you two do deserve a room together, and make sure you stay there.

You seem unable to accept any criticism of Yuna whatsoever. She happens to be my favorite skater. She's the reason why I started following skating again. But, because I criticized the design of her LP and her presentation, you have followed me around on the internet with vitriol and long-winded hatred. For what purpose? Does it make you feel better? You think because I don't like her LP that it invalidates my appreciation for her, I'm no longer authorized to be in the Yuna fan club? :laugh:

Grow up please, or put me on ignore. Either one, I don't care which.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
You seem unable to accept any criticism of Yuna whatsoever. She happens to be my favorite skater. She's the reason why I started following skating again. But, because I criticized the design of her LP and her presentation, you have followed me around on the internet with vitriol and long-winded hatred. For what purpose? Does it make you feel better? You think because I don't like her LP that it invalidates my appreciation for her, I'm no longer authorized to be in her fan club? :laugh:

Grow up please, or put me on ignore. Either one, I don't care which.

Weak and a liar.

It isn't why and you know it. But if that is what you choose to believe, then so be it. You are already on my ignore list already, but when your name keep pop on the thread I write on, yeah i want to make sure i haven't miss anything that might have referred to my post.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Her LP has not been received too great this year. Not bad, but just meh. That's not only me, that seems to be the opinion of a lot of people who look critically at it instead of just embracing all things Yuna. Now she's up against Akiko and Julia who have much better LPs. Maybe others too. The judges and audience notice.

The program might be better at Sochi, I reserve the right to say so. I hope that's the case, like last year at WC. Because I not only want her to win, but I want her to deliver a performance she will be satisfied with, and the audience will remember forever. I want all three of those things from my favorite skater in her adieu to competitive figure skating. I don't want her last skate ever to be some esoteric piece that leaves everyone going "meh".

But, I said almost 2 months ago there were problems with the program and the audience would not connect with it. I tried to point the problems out, perhaps not always as concisely and eloquently as I would have liked, and so you took it upon yourself to attack me non-stop since then all over the internet. Even when I post about Julia and Mao, you find a way to attack me about Yuna. Makes no sense.
 

jatale

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
I don't like the personal attacks and criticism that often pollute fan boards. Being a fan doesn't mean never being disappointed or being critical of a favorite skater. What is important is respecting everyone's dignity and right to their opinion no matter how much you might disagree with it.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I don't like the personal attacks and criticism that often pollute fan boards. Being a fan doesn't mean never being disappointed or being critical of a favorite skater. What is important is respecting everyone's dignity and right to their opinion no matter how much you might disagree with it.

Believe the slanderous accusations ad nauseum if you must Jatale. If anyone has ever read my posts over the years will know while I can be passionate about making a point, I have rarely ever act unreasonable.

Ven however had a bone to grind for weeks based on our previous exchanges when I took his points apart. The fact he has been continued to obsessively pound on the same points everywhere in literally dozens and hundreds of the same schtick in an effort of 'if you repeat them long enough it must be true', it grew RIDICULOUS, TEDIOUS and yes ANNOYING so I put him on ignore. I regret to check to see if he has misconstrued my posts again just to ridicule them as he has done in the past, instead, I find him making another ridiculous gobbledygook that has nothing to do with the direction of the thread and decide to call him out on it. Big mistake! The whole childish attacks and taunting on my character however is as vile as well as as any other generalization that has nothing to do with his problem with me on a one-to-one basis and he knows it.

Now if anyone still want to talk about skating carry on... i will give this thread a break, because frankly it is doing my head in... and I still have 4CCs ladies to look forward to which I'd like to have my zen self back to at least try to enjoy it.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
I never said Julia is bad, I said she's not as good as Yuna or Mao. It's not fair for to compare her to them at her junior age. Unfortunately, people want to rush her into the gold medal. I've been consistent saying it's too early for her unless others make some mistakes.

I hope I can praise a skater and criticize them at the same time.

Sorry, now I think I get what you mean. I also think there's no way that Julia can win the Gold unless either Yuna or Mao make costly mistakes. But I think she's so good she's definitely in the range of 3rd to 4th unless she makes significant technical mistakes (maybe even 2nd).
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Os you got offended because I tried to break down the program and find its flaw from a critical perspective. Had I simply said "I feel nothing from this program" as others did, it would have made you mad, but that would have been the end of discussion. Instead, I wanted to find out "why" did I feel the program was off? You know, it's not an easy process, because if the mistake were obvious, Yuna and David would have noticed a long time before any of us.

Through civil dialogue with a couple of friendly posters, I was able to come to the determination. You were not one of those people; instead you found the entire discussion sacrilegious. To the people who were friendly and helpful, I thank them.

-----

The first problem with the program was Yuna's conditioning. I feel she wasn't able to express her full potential because of injury, lack of training, and fatigue. She said during an interview after Nationals, that in the next month before Sochi she will work hard on presentation. This and a few other things suggest to me that she was more focused on jumps and levels at Golden Spin and Nationals. So in this respect, we should take comfort to know that Yuna will be polishing her presentation very hard right now, and we are likely to see a much better performance at Olympics.

The second problem with the program ... I don't feel the interpretation was sincere to the music. Adiós Nonino has very powerful feelings of sadness and melancholy that lead to acceptance of finality. The music is about expression of those emotions, that the composer cannot reach final acceptance of the situation without cathartic release. Astor Piazzollo designed the music in a very specific way, where those emotions linger and build until they are finally released at climax, and then by the end he accepts the finality of the situation. Like a Shakespearean five act play the music is constructed as follows:

1) introduction to set the mood
2) rising action ... the emotions build and build and build
3) climax ... cathartic release of those emotions
4) falling action or post-climax ... the performer takes a breath to collect herself
5) finale ... the performer girds herself and embraces the end in a furious climactic sequence

This is why Adiós Nonino makes a perfect vehicle for Yuna's final performance. It's absolutely the right choice of music, but the problem is her performance lacked emotional depth to match the meaning. For starters, there's a crucial piece of music that was cut out of Yuna's version right before climax. It's so vital to building the emotion in the music that in hindsight I can't believe it was left out. When I mentioned this, Krislite kindly suggested that perhaps David intentionally left out that part of the music, to de-emphasize the emotion. So I thought about that approach, and my feelings are that if David and Yuna wanted to go that direction, the music cut should have focused on the later piano sections from the "falling action" part of the music. There's less emotion present there because it comes after the climax. If you want to de-emphasize emotion, use the parts of music that have less emotion in them.

^^^It only took me a month of thinking and many posts to figure that out. In that case, the performer could have skipped the building and building of emotion, the tear-jerking climax, just skipped all of it, and gone for an interpretation of the falling action which contains less emotion in the music.

Instead, the music cut focuses on the "rising action", where the emotion builds and builds. So... if you want to de-emphasize the emotion in the music, these are not the correct sections to include in the cut. But now they are there ... so what do they build to? They build to the climax, and the interpretation must understand this process. Just as Astor Piazzollo built the emotions in the music to a very certain point -- the moment of deep despair in the music that properly sets up the climax -- so to the performer must build the emotions to a moment of despair. That critical part of the music was left out of Yuna's cut, so it will be up to Yuna to make the audience feel the emotions that the music otherwise would have done.

1) introduction
2) rising action ... sadness, loneliness, longing, regret ... tempered with maturity and composure ... these emotions must build and build

What do they build to? They build and build to a moment where the emotions are at their most intense
(which should match with the 2nd half of the step sequence)

3) climax ... the emotions are released with the rise in the music
(the whole program builds to this moment and it must be set up and experienced properly for the audience to really feel the performance)

4) falling action ... Yuna completes the next section including her spin, and then has one final moment to take a deep breath and say "here we go"

5) finale ... the furious final sequence where Yuna accepts the end of her career ... notice in the music there is a sense of finality.

-----

So like I said, the important thing for Yuna's Sochi performance .... there needs to be emotional depth. A sense of maturity. I said it before, she's a 23 year old woman now capable of expressing much deeper emotions than when she was younger. We should not be getting the same performance as 19 year old Gershwin girl with just different music playing the background. Yuna was fun and flirty back then ... Adelina who is 17 is doing fun and flirty these days. Mao seems incapable of moving the audience emotionally because she only cares about her 3As and flashy footwork. Julia is immature and couldn't possibly understand the range of emotions in something like Adiós Nonino, let alone convey them to the audience.

A truly emotional, expressive farewell ... that's Yuna's trump-card over all of her competitors (other than her superior talents, anyway). Why would she waste that? She's perfectly capable of moving the audience with a mature and emotional presentation. I for one would like to see it happen.
 
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