Rétiré, anyone?

[BravesSkateFan]

It seems to me more an issue of not paying attention to technique and presentation

I have to say I disagree. How can you say they aren't paying attention to technique? They may not be using BALLET technique, but that doesn't mean that its not correct figure skating technique. If they were dancers you could say they weren't paying attention to technique, but once again, they are not dancers they are skaters. They do not have to adhere to dance technique.

[Joesitz]

I think it means "to withdraw" literally in French. In ballet, if you can visualize a fifth position, one would lift the front foot to the knee of the other foot without changing its position and then dropping to the back of the other foot keeping the finished position in fifth. Tough to do with blades.

Joe

[2loop2002]

Originally posted by Matt
... there are skaters who do hold their foot in a rétiré position in their upright spins.

This type of one spin is generally done by advanced skaters only as an ending to a spin in another position, such as a layback, camel, etc. This gives a finished look to the spin rather than just exiting immediately from the spin; it also requires less time in a program and less energy than completing a spin with an upright scratch spin. The one foot spin skaters typically include in a program is a scratch spin which requires greater speed and a different balance point (it's closer to the toe on the ball of the foot) this position and balance are more easily attained by crossing the feet over at the ankles. The goal of a scratch spin is to acheive a very "cylindrical" body position to decrease the moment of inertia and thus increase the angular velocity. Having the knee of the free leg sticking out in front of the skater increases the moment of inertia and decreases the velocity of the spin. The free leg and knees affect the velocity of a spin just like the arms do.

The one foot upright spin with the free foot at the knee is the first spin taught to beginning skaters after they have learned the two foot spin because it is a very stable position. While the position Matt is referring to in dance might be very advanced when done properly in ballet or jazz; it is a very basic spin position in figure skating. Skaters use it as a "stepping stone" to more advanced positions and faster spins.

Originally posted by Matt
Frankly, if a skater can fight centripetal force, grab their blade, yank it above their head, and spin at least six revolutions in a Biellmann spin,...

I just thought I'd point out that very few skaters can actually do a Biellmann spin. Even then, I think it probably has less to do with the ability to fight centripetal force and more to do with the flexibility of the skater's back.

2loop

[Joesitz]

When you get into Bielman spins you are really liking it to something in the Cirque du Soleil. It is an acrobatic trick now used in figure skating. Figure Skating is not an Original dance form. It borrows from everywhere.

Joe

[thisthingcalledlove]

totally off topic, but i think retire is a midwest term. It means the same as passe, but my teachers here in california always called it passe...

[Sk8n Mama]

that is a beginner position for a one-foot spin

There is no classic skating spin with the free leg in a retire position. However, the first one-foot spin learned by skaters has the free leg bent, hip turned in, and instep of the free foot aginst the knee area-as well described above. One thing to consider in comparing a balletic pirouette against a skaters spin-a ballerina goes around once, twice or three, times while a skater goes around many more; think 'physics' on this one. I think many skaters out there have a 'balletic style". Have a look at Emmanuel Sandhu's positions, as this young man spent many years training in ballet and eventually gave it up for skating. If memory serves, he was a member of the Royal Ballet of Canada's Academy. As it has been said, though, skating is not ballet. Skaters take dance training to be more graceful, not to do 'ballet on ice'.

Oh, as for Ilia Kulik in Center Stage: That was just on this weekend. I think he'd best stick to skating.

[Ladskater]

Matt:

Figure Skating and ballet have much in common and yet, are worlds apart.

A one foot spin in figure skating is done with the leg being drawn in towards the knee and then it crosses in front and the leg is slowly pushed down again towards the ice.

The reason the leg is drawn in slowly is to gain speed.

The figure skater is not attempting to strike a ballet pose. It is a pure figure skating move.

The reason skaters take ballet is to improve their posture and gain better poise. It also helps with their flexibility and stretching.

Some skaters do learn to blend some of their arm movements from ballet training with their skating. This always looks nice.