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Thread: I feel a bit sorry for Ashley Wagner...

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by concorde View Post
    This "kinda" happened before with the Tonya/Nancy incident. Michelle Kwan finished 2nd at Nationals but was "bumped" for Nancy Kerrigan.
    In fairness that wasnt the same thing at all as Kerrigan didnt actually skate and get defeated by Kwan (which this particular year would have never happened either, even if Kerrigan bombed). She was unable to skate due to being attacked by Harding's thugs. To deny her a place on the team when she was clearly the #1 American at the time, and after a gruesome attack kept her out of Nationals, and in favor of a 13 year old no less (even if one with amazing promise who went on to become a unwordly legend it turned out), would in fact have made the USFSA even more vilified than they are being now.

  2. #212
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Friends of mine who are "casual" fans asked me about the choice of Ashley for the US Olympic team. I explained to them that Ashley had had pretty good results @ internationals events in recent seasons, and that Ashley & Gracie helped secure 3 spots for the US @ 2013 Worlds. Personally, I really wanted the team to be Gracie, Mirai, & Ashley. I have nothing against Polina Edmunds. She skated beautifully in both phases of US Nationals, but is it my understanding that she doesn't have any international experience yet on the SENIOR level? If so, then I would have sent Mirai. If Polina keeps up skating as well as she did @ Nationals (and doesn't get hit by the "puberty" monster), then she should have a very bright future. I just don't want to see a situation of bad feelings directed to Ashley vs. Mirai (as in Ashley taking Mirai's spot).

  3. #213
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    I've had the same conversations with friends since I've been back from Boston. Pretty much said the same thing as iluvtodd. I think if Mirai had won 4 CCs or even medalled these conversations would have taken an ugly turn once again. I just hope Ash keeps it together at the Olys.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I've had the same conversations with friends since I've been back from Boston. Pretty much said the same thing as iluvtodd. I think if Mirai had won 4 CCs or even medalled these conversations would have taken an ugly turn once again. I just hope Ash keeps it together at the Olys.
    True but with being so ill she had no real chance to skate well. If this wasn't her only international championship assignment this year, I'm sure she would have withdrawn.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Yes, we're talking about the same thread, re the U.S. and Japanese criteria:

    Interestingly, although "U.S." is in the thread title, noticeably fewer of the posts discussed the U.S. criteria (compared to the Japanese criteria).

    Regarding the perspective of a less informed person:
    What I do not understand is why/how a less informed person would feel entitled to complain. When I am less informed on a particular topic (gymnastics is the example that I have used repeatedly), I "know what I do not know" -- and I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that my own lack of curiosity and/or effort is the reason that I am less informed. If the gymnastics rules are available to the public on the USA Gymnastics website and I haven't read them, whose fault is that? It's my own fault, of course.

    The reason the lack of interest in the GS thread seems pertinent to me is that even self-described fans of figure skating did not care enough about the criteria to make comments back then -- and yet almost a week after the USFS announcement re Wagner's inclusion, some GS members still are crying foul. Makes no sense to me.
    I tried replying last night but my Internet went down when I hit "post" so I'm going to try again today.
    My first guess is that, if I remember right, the U.S. criteria was posted and discussed in an earlier thread that lasted multiple pages, so people might have expressed their opinions then. The reason could also be that the thread was posted outside the "peak" time of the season, so there just weren't as many people around to discuss the issue then. My third possible explanation is that, with the way the question in the title was worded, a few people came on and attempted to answer the question (with varying degrees of success from what I read), and there just wasn't much extra discussion.

    As far as the less-informed fans are concerned, personally, I agree with you wholeheartedly. As someone who works for a newspaper (small-town weekly paper, not anyplace that would have been reporting on Nationals) one of the press's responsibilities is to educate and inform their readers/viewers. I'm not saying they had to go on air and say, "Skater A stands a much better chance than Skater M of making the team because of Rule 2, Item B, Paragraph I, which says 'blah, blah, blah' because she meets bullets a, b, c, d and e." Something along the lines of the explanation in Christine Brennan's column, though, would have been an improvement over what I saw from NBC. "USFS has emphasized all week that a skater's "body of work" will be strongly considered in its Olympic selections. This rule has been in the books for a while, but this is the first time it has been mentioned — and it has been mentioned over and over again this week." It says 1) There is a rule which allows for deviation from Nationals standings, 2) This rule is not new and 3) USFS might feel the need to use it. I'll back down from U.S. Figure Skating if they really were publicizing this the way she makes it sound, but I still believe NBC is at fault for not coming out and saying (from what I've seen so far) that there was a rule, instead of just hypothesizing that Ashley was safe because of her "body of work" over the past couple seasons.

    It's impossible to be completely sure, but I'd be willing to bet if the USFS criteria had been posted on this board the week of Nationals, there would have been much more interest than in November, especially as the results came in and we started seeing the possibility of Ashley (and to a lesser extent, Denney/Coughlin) finishing outside the top 3/2. Interestingly, I watched a post on Nationals on The Skating Lesson's website, and they thought, if USFS wouldn't have had to name Ashley to the team ahead of Mirai, that D/C would be Olympians right now, despite finishing third. Personally, I think, if the decision was that close, USFS should have named both to the team. Even that might have stemmed some of the controversy, because they could point to D/C and say, "See? We're not playing favorites – we did it here, too." Instead, even among the die-hard fans, I've seen discussion asking why they only made the exception in this one case. Why not in pairs? Why not between Mirai/Polina, which in my opinion is a much different (and interesting) conversation. After all, which should count for more – a bad record (in comparison to her potential) in Mirai's case, or a non-existent one in Polina's case?

  6. #216
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    How sick was Mirai and how does everybody know? I heard she had a virus. No other details. Doesn't matter now but......

  7. #217
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    I don't think this is issue of virus or travel, the problem was that at National, US judges gave Mirai a "pass" on her UR problems, and at 4CC, those international judges are merciless and made the call which made her TES looks ugly (IMO). I don't see much differences on the performance and deliveries between her programs at National and at 4CC.

    Her jump techniques need to be fixed many years ago. This can only do her good in long run...

  8. #218
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyl23 View Post
    I tried replying last night but my Internet went down when I hit "post" so I'm going to try again today.
    My first guess is that, if I remember right, the U.S. criteria was posted and discussed in an earlier thread that lasted multiple pages, so people might have expressed their opinions then. The reason could also be that the thread was posted outside the "peak" time of the season, so there just weren't as many people around to discuss the issue then. My third possible explanation is that, with the way the question in the title was worded, a few people came on and attempted to answer the question (with varying degrees of success from what I read), and there just wasn't much extra discussion. ...
    Thanks for your reply, caseyl23.

    (1) If another even earlier thread had a longer discussion of the U.S. criteria, I would love to go back and read it. If anyone else remembers it, I hope s/he will provide a link to it.
    If the existence of the postulated even-earlier thread is real, it would further negate the argument of some in this thread that they had no way of knowing about the criteria until the announcement that Wagner was selected for the Sochi team.

    (2) As for the November thread that we do know about, it was started during the heart of GP season, so I do not buy the theory that it was not a peak time for attention to figure skating.

    (3) As for your third explanation, thank you for reinforcing the point that I was trying to make.
    The thread was clearly about U.S. and Japanese selection criteria, and very few GS members were interested in the topic.
    So for those who keep insisting that NBC should have been discussing the criteria throughout the season, my point is that very few GS members were interested in the criteria earlier in the season. Why should NBC have discussed something that held practically zero interest even for self-selected skating fans? NBC's' job as a broadcaster is to hold the attention of its viewers, not to turn them off with stuff that they don't want.

    I agree that the press has some responsibility to educate and inform the public.
    BUT .. a TV network cannot educate and inform "its" audience if its audience has turned the channel to find more interesting programming.
    If your newspaper is a for-profit enterprise (as NBC is), its first order of business is to sell newspapers. If it has no readership, then it has no one to educate and inform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Is there a big hue and cry among the general population, apart from us die-hards? Does anyone besides us care which skater was selected, or what the criteria were, or whether they were announced and publicized in a timely fashion?
    I do not have an answer for your question, MM.
    What I do know is that many of the complaints in this thread -- complaints that I do not support -- are along the lines of: the decision in Wagner's favor gives the general public additional ammunition to denigrate figure skating... the decision is another embarrassment for figure skating on the level of Sale/Pelletier's silver medal in Salt Lake City ... yada, yada, yada ...

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