Johnny Weir, just stop talking

Ptichka · Jan 21, 2014

My parents went to college with a gay guy, who now lives happily in CA. He says that he honestly didn't realize he was gay, though he did realize he was very miserably, until he got to the US (this was in the late 70's). He was even married for a few years; he now says he pities his ex-wife more so then himself.

As for the officials - once again, it's a cynical regime that doesn't care! Do not confuse this with Iran and its principled rule. Russian officials couldn't care less what percentage of the population is gay. This just happens to be a convenient scapegoat at this particular moment in time.

luckyguy · Jan 21, 2014

Olympia said:
As for U.S. hypocrisy, I don't see what that has to do with individual Americans' speaking out about injustice anywhere.

Clarification: under hypocrisy I mean the propaganda in the media which manipulates the people in America. Everybody who analyzed the media knows: it´s not about gay rights, it is only smokescreen (see Saudi Arabia); it´s about that Russia under Putin has re-emerged as a great power on the world stage.

Bluebonnet · Jan 21, 2014

I agree. It is a struggle between two world most powerful nations against each other. Russia is rising and US hates it. US will find anything in order to be against Russia whether it is Snowdon or it is gay rights. If not gay rights, US will find something else. Ptichka, if you say that gay people have become a convenient scapegoat of the Russian government which I won't deny because I don't know much about Russian politics, I think the US government has used gay people too, and successfully awakened the anger of probably half of the blinded nation by their biased misleading propaganda.

Mathman · Jan 21, 2014

Is "pedophilia propaganda" a big problem in Russia? Are there a lot of public demonstrations in support of molesting children?

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 21, 2014

luckyguy said:
Clarification: under hypocrisy I mean the propaganda in the media which manipulates the people in America..

You mean like when people are manipulated into thinking that discriminatory laws are with the means of protecting children, even when it removes children from couples and offers no protection to LGBT people including youth who have been targeted and abused. Yeah, they're really protecting children, eh. :sarcasm:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 21, 2014

Bluebonnet said:
I agree. It is a struggle between two world most powerful nations against each other. Russia is rising and US hates it. US will find anything in order to be against Russia whether it is Snowdon or it is gay rights. If there is no gay rights issue, US will find something else. Ptichka, if you say that gay people have become a convenient scapegoat of the Russian government which I won't deny because I don't know much about Russian politics, I think the US government has used gay people too, and successfully awakened the anger of probably half of the blinded nation by their biased misleading propaganda.

Right. Because the US is the only country that is speaking out against these atrocious laws. :rolleye:

Bluebonnet · Jan 21, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
You mean like when people are manipulated into thinking that discriminatory laws are with the means of protecting children, even when it removes children from couples and offers no protection to LGBT people including youth who have been targeted and abused. Yeah, they're really protecting children, eh. :sarcasm:

CSG, I think you are talking about a law that doesn't exist, at least not yet exist.

Olympia · Jan 21, 2014

luckyguy said:
Clarification: under hypocrisy I mean the propaganda in the media which manipulates the people in America. Everybody who analyzed the media knows: it´s not about gay rights, it is only smokescreen (see Saudi Arabia); it´s about that Russia under Putin has re-emerged as a great power on the world stage.

Manipulates the people? Do we all think in lockstep? Is no one awake but you? I doubt that, just on logical terms. It's an all-too-easy way to dismiss the ideas of people who disagree with you. Believe it or not, bright people (and even people of conscience) don't all come to the same conclusions about an issue.

Bluebonnet · Jan 21, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Right. Because the US is the only country that is speaking out against these atrocious laws.

Don't you think that US is leading the way and the western Europe allies are following? What atrocious law are you talking about? That protecting children law? Why do you care about children especially other people's precious children if you say you don't care about them in the first place?! The parents said, "Go on with your life, and leave our children alone." That is what this Russian law all about.

If you say, with this law, you cannot go on with your life. That is not this law. That is your misinterpretation of this law.

Buttercup · Jan 21, 2014

Bluebonnet said:
Don't you think that US is leading the way and the western Europe allies are following? What atrocious law are you talking about? That protecting children law? Why do you care about children if you say you don't care about them in the first place?!

Bluebonnet, children don't need protection from LGBTQ people. How many times must this be explained to you? Children need protection from child molesters, from violence and bigotry, from neglect and abuse. None of these things are tied to sexual orientation and you have yet to offer any shred of real evidence even suggesting otherwise.

It's really interesting because usually homophobia is used to refer people who dislike LGBTQ folks and want to discriminate against them, but everything I've read from you suggests that you are genuinely afraid that that they want to do various unspeakable things, thus justifying all sorts of repulsive measures against them. Unless they are good gays who stay in the closet. BTW, should straight people also stay in the closet and never express their feelings about their romantic partners?

In other words, you have an unreasonable phobia, but instead of trying to deal with it like a rational person, you want governments to enact discriminatory policies that stem from this phobia. That is extremely wrong.

luckyguy · Jan 21, 2014

Olympia said:
Manipulates the people? Do we all think in lockstep? Is no one awake but you? I doubt that, just on logical terms. It's an all-too-easy way to dismiss the ideas of people who disagree with you. Believe it or not, bright people (and even people of conscience) don't all come to the same conclusions about an issue.

Oh, you are angry.

It´s your good right to disagree with me and to believe there is no manipulation in the media. Anyway I mean it is naturally legitimate to criticize unjustice in other countries. And Russia is surely not the paradise on earth.

Bluebonnet · Jan 21, 2014

Buttercup said:
Bluebonnet, children don't need protection from LGBTQ people. How many times must this be explained to you?

How many times must this be explained to you?! You just choose not to face the facts. Please go back to read all the threads in politics so we don't have to go all over again. You've called me names quite enough of times. :rolleye:

Buttercup · Jan 21, 2014

Bluebonnet said:
How many times must this be explained to you?! You just choose not to face the facts. Please go back to read all the threads in politics so we don't have to go all over again. You've called me names quite enough of times.

What names have I called you? I've stated that you consistently express homophobic views. Which you do. You have provided no facts. Oh so serious sources like Jesus-is-savior.com or whatever that ridiculous website was do not provide facts. Why should I have to go back and read that drivel? How about you go and read the multitude of serious, respectable, and scientific information people have presented in response to your claims?

If you want to be treated with respect, argue from a rational position rather than whining that you are being oppressed because people are calling you out for making bigoted comments.

Bluebonnet · Jan 21, 2014

Buttercup said:
If you want to be treated with respect, argue from a rational position rather than whining that you are being oppressed because people are calling you out for making bigoted comments.

I am not expecting you to respect me because you cannot stand that I hold the totally opposite opinions from yours and I have strong logical reasonings for my positions. Bigoted, irrational, and oppressing, that is what you are. Whining why this board is still allowing my opinions here. Trying to have me banned and silence me is what you do, not me.

Buttercup · Jan 21, 2014

If someone came here and shared why their faith makes it difficult for them to accept marriage equality, I would disagree with their views but I can understand where they are coming from. But ranting about how The Gays want to recruit the children is not an opinion worthy of any sort of respect or consideration.

Bluebonnet said:
Whining why this board is still allowing my opinions here. Trying to have me banned and silence me is what you do, not me.

Do you think I'm a moderator here? It's not my call who gets infractions and who ultimately gets banned. GS has pretty clear guidelines about what sort of things are and aren't acceptable, perhaps you should review them?

BTW, I'm oppressed? By whom? Sparkly gay ponies?

Mods, feel free to delete this post if you feel that this tangent contributes little to the discussion.

Bluebonnet · Jan 21, 2014

Oppressing is what I meant. I am not talking about mods. I am talking about you for what you have done.

Buttercup · Jan 21, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 21, 2014

Yet another case of "Why are you being so intolerant of my intolerance?". :rolleye:

As for the parents saying "Go on with your life", how exactly is being incriminated for displaying affection in public (the same affection that straight couples show) evidence of LGBT people being allowed to "go on with their life"?

And the US hasn't "lead the way" with this, but they are firmly on board with denouncing these laws. Countries like Denmark, France, and Germany have all expressed disapproval and condemned the laws before Obama. Hollande (France's president) and Germany's president (Joachim Gauck) have said they're not going in protest. Denmark's foreign minister: “The law is highly objectionable. It risks promoting discrimination and attacks against minorities in the Russian society and we have already seen examples of this. The law gives an official stamp of approval [to discriminate]." And as we've seen, there has been a surge in anti-gay violence - with no prosecution of the assailants - since these laws were enacted. Surprise, surprise.

Bluebonnet · Jan 22, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
As for the parents saying "Go on with your life", how exactly is being incriminated for displaying affection in public (the same affection that straight couples show) evidence of LGBT people being allowed to "go on with their life"?

Anything has to be considered within the culture they live in. Are these the custom in their country to kiss and hold hands in public? I don't even see gay people kiss and hold hands in a public place in Canada. And I have never seen gay people kiss and hold hands in US in their normal daily life. In some east Asian countries, two women could walk shoulder by shoulder and arm in arm on the sidewalk and in the crowded stores, but they are just good friends, not lesbians. Why are you fighting for something that doesn't matter or doesn't exist?

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
And the US hasn't "lead the way" with this, but they are firmly on board with denouncing these laws. Countries like Denmark, France, and Germany have all expressed disapproval and condemned the laws before Obama. Hollande (France's president) and Germany's president (Joachim Gauck) have said they're not going in protest. Denmark's foreign minister: “The law is highly objectionable. It risks promoting discrimination and attacks against minorities in the Russian society and we have already seen examples of this. The law gives an official stamp of approval [to discriminate]." And as we've seen, there has been a surge in anti-gay violence - with no prosecution of the assailants - since these laws were enacted. Surprise, surprise.

If I am not mistaking, The Guardian (US edition) has first broken the story in June 2013. Of course, there were tons of buzz among various LGBT media months before the law was passed. I know US government chimed in much later after Snowden incident. I'm too lazy to search at this moment for the time frame that other European government's involving time.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 23, 2014

Bluebonnet said:
Anything has to be considered within the culture they live in. Are these the custom in their country to kiss and hold hands in public? I don't even see gay people kiss and hold hands in a public place in Canada. And I have never seen gay people kiss and hold hands in US in their normal daily life.

So because you've seen it, it doesn't exist. Have you seen an interracial couple kiss in public? It's about giving same-sex couples the right to show affection the way straight couples do should they so choose (and not be incriminated for it), even if not every single couple will exercise that right (just like every straight couple does not kiss or hold hands in public either).

Here's a question: what if a gay athlete decides to kiss his male partner or her female partner at the Olympics, say, after they compete? Will this be construed as a political statement or homosexual propaganda and is this forbidden by the IOC/Russians?

Johnny Weir, just stop talking

Ptichka

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